Gun Control Debate #2

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  • #681
How understanding will America be when a teacher who does not want to carry ends up being "the one who could have stopped this" in the minds of people who don't understanding a single thing about killing?

As understanding and empathetic as I am now as I think most people are. I can't speak for everyone though.

I would like to add that most teachers wouldn't be fit or able to carry. When I say arm teachers I am talking about a few that are comfortable and adept with a firearm.
 
  • #682
How understanding will America be when a teacher who does not want to carry ends up being "the one who could have stopped this" in the minds of people who don't understanding a single thing about killing?

I don’t think that would be the case. People don’t think like that. Obviously it’s not a teacher’s job to protect children from a crazy guy with a gun. But it sure would be nice if teachers had that option. Nobody would even need to know which teachers carry and which don’t. Just like everywhere else in America where people are walking around with a handgun concealed on their person. Grocery stores, shopping malls, churches, offices, etc. Just end the ridiculous law that makes schools “gun free zones.” A teacher with a gun won’t be expected to save everyone in the case of a mass school shooting, but at least they’d have the ability to shoot back rather than hiding in a corner waiting to be killed.
 
  • #683
I think the snapchat videos filmed during and after the massacre are very telling of the human response - in the classroom each time a bullet was fired, the terror felt by these students was palpable, the uncontrollable violent shaking of a student with raised hands when the officer did come in. Also at the other end, the presence of the persons who managed to film during a massacre.

I also do not feel it is fair to judge the only school officer on the scene for his inaction until all the facts are in. That freeze response defies logic because it is a physical response. Our officers are human beings and fallible, too. They were definitely not equipped with matching firepower and until we know what they were told in dispatch, their protocol, training, experience, their instincts and why it played out the way it did is very important to know moving forward.

I wonder how teachers, coaches, administrators who have survived school shootings feel about arming teachers and has anyone asked them before promoting this idea?

Somehow, the systemic failure of so many elements in this massacre from so many agencies makes me realize we are not safe. And certainly a regular soft target like a school is on the frontline. At some point we are going to say this is unacceptable. Question is not if, but when.
 
  • #684
  • #685
I think most of us can see that the arming teachers ruse is doing something/anything to avoid any regulating for stricter gun control.
IMO

Thank you. Ruse is the right word. It will never happen - it's just another attempt to keep people looking somewhere else.
 
  • #686
I think the snapchat videos filmed during and after the massacre are very telling of the human response - in the classroom each time a bullet was fired, the terror felt of these students was palpable, the uncontrollable violent shaking of a student with raised hands when the officer did come in. Also at the other end, the presence of the persons who manage to film during a massacre.

I also do not feel it is fair to judge the only school officer on the scene for his inaction until all the facts are in. That freeze response defies logic because it is a physical response. Our officers are human beings and fallible, too. They were definitely not equipped with matching firepower and until we know what they were told in dispatch, their protocol, training, experience, their instincts and why it played out the way it did is very important to know moving forward.

I wonder how teachers, coaches, administrators who have survived school shootings feel about arming teachers and has anyone asked them before promoting this idea?

Somehow, the systemic failure of so many elements in this massacre from so many agencies makes me realize we are not safe. And certainly a regular soft target like a school is on the frontline. At some point we are going to say this is unacceptable. Question is not if, but when.
Arming teachers is pretty much dead in the water as an idea is what am seeing from tons of recent reading.

Again, I think it's a mistake to remain fixated on school shootings alone.. Any public gathering is now a target.
There is little to be done to prevent any of them occurring.
The blame game is rampant.
So that seems to bring us to damage limitation either by the drastic action of removing all guns from everybody, period or installing new efficient and expensive security measures.

This means that the government needs to cough up bigly to equip each gathering with search mechanisms, security personnel and additional police on the streets and in attendance, everywhere.
Mega recruitment drive for more police.
We're talking billions of billions of $s.

There will continue to be deranged people who escape detection and there will continue to be threats from terrorists.
#GetTheMoney.
#FindIt, do it and delay no longer.
Don't wait for laws to change.. too slow a process.. more people will die horribly.

Safety measures now.

would anybody disagree with that?
 
  • #687
Serious question....why don't they tax the hell out of guns and ammo??? That would be the obvious way for the government to make a little extra money and keep the buyers under some control.
 
  • #688
Arming teachers is pretty much dead in the water as an idea is what am seeing from tons of recent reading.

Again, I think it's a mistake to remain fixated on school shootings alone.. Any public gathering is now a target.
There is little to be done to prevent any of them occurring.
The blame game is rampant.
So that seems to bring us to damage limitation either by the drastic action of removing all guns from everybody, period or installing new efficient and expensive security measures.

This means that the government needs to cough up bigly to equip each gathering with search mechanisms, security personnel and additional police on the streets and in attendance, everywhere.
Mega recruitment drive for more police.
We're talking billions of billions of $s.

There will continue to be deranged people who escape detection and there will continue to be threats from terrorists.
#GetTheMoney.
#FindIt, do it and delay no longer.
Don't wait for laws to change.. too slow a process.. more people will die horribly.

Safety measures now.

would anybody disagree with that?

rbbm

This is where I agree with you. When discussing gun reform we need to take into consideration all gun violence. The majority of people aren't being killed with 'assault rifles'. Young adult men are losing their lives at rates greater than women and children.

I'm linking a recent article on gun deaths in New Orleans in 2017 to show breakdown of age and sex. This is only one city but I'll bet if we look at statistics for Chicago and other major cities I think we would find similar results. IMO

Gun violence in New Orleans in 2017: Who was shot, when and where

http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2018/02/new_orleans_shootings_2017_num.html
 
  • #689
rbbm

This is where I agree with you. When discussing gun reform we need to take into consideration all gun violence. The majority of people aren't being killed with 'assault rifles'. Young adult men are losing their lives at rates greater than women and children.

I'm linking a recent article on gun deaths in New Orleans in 2017 to show breakdown of age and sex. This is only one city but I'll bet if we look at statistics for Chicago and other major cities I think we will find similar statistics. IMO

Gun violence in New Orleans in 2017: Who was shot, when and where

http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2018/02/new_orleans_shootings_2017_num.html

Do you reckon the money can be got?
Great article, BTW
 
  • #690
I don’t think that would be the case. People don’t think like that. Obviously it’s not a teacher’s job to protect children from a crazy guy with a gun. But it sure would be nice if teachers had that option. Nobody would even need to know which teachers carry and which don’t. Just like everywhere else in America where people are walking around with a handgun concealed on their person. Grocery stores, shopping malls, churches, offices, etc. Just end the ridiculous law that makes schools “gun free zones.” A teacher with a gun won’t be expected to save everyone in the case of a mass school shooting, but at least they’d have the ability to shoot back rather than hiding in a corner waiting to be killed.

I disagree wholeheartedly with this assumption.
 
  • #691
MSNBC

He is talking about washing machines??

Discussing Ford cars ??

Immigration?

Tariffs on solar panels ??

Transportation ?

Old military junk?

North Korea?

he directed Attorney General Jeff Sessions to draft regulations

he described his belief that "I'd run in there even if I didn't have a weapon," he added.

"I want my schools protected like my banks ..... (what does that mean?)

--
White House has said it is currently in the "listening phase"-- anyone know how long listening phases last??

--One idea issue chip cards to every student in the United States of America

--Close every door in AMerican schools but one door per school

-- according to him if schools had some teachers with pistols the folks with machine guns would never go into any school in America cause "bullets will be going toward the guy with machine gun"

-- "Cops don't love students the way teachers do"

-- A Gov bought up Hippa he didn't seem to know what it is

-- We can start a committee to study how to use CCTV.

-- He wants armed teachers to get up to $19.23 a week to be armed in schools (his $1000 bonus)

--He is not sure but he thinks there are maybe 9 states that have some staff armed

--erroneously talking about 3 other deputies accused of not going on. According to Israel on Jake Tapper that is not true.

-- if they know they are going to be dead they wont go in a school ( I suppose we forget about suicidal shooters)

-- possibly rate violent media

-- he thinks the armed school staff should be like good tennis players or golfers -- know how to do it

--does not like bump stocks despite the reality that they have allegedly used in one shooting.

--he keeps talking about "smoke" but I cant figure out what he is talking about --

--talking about a terrorist using a car

--discussing how he used to get great press

--Kelly and Pence in the room

--The federal govt will be behind " any state no matter what each state wants to do "

--

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/25/politics/broward-county-scott-israel-parkland-cnntv/index.html

https://www.campussafetymagazine.com/safety/u-s-school-shooting-statistics-us/

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-meets-with-nations-governors-at-white-house-live-stream/

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-...first-on-our-list-in-meetings-with-governors/

http://www.businessinsider.com/mass-shooting-gun-statistics-2018-2

http://time.com/5174929/donald-trump-gun-violence-governors-meeting/

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-meets-with-nations-governors-at-white-house-live-stream/
 
  • #692
  • #693
  • #694
I second your emotion, Tawny. And I agree that multiple solutions are needed, at multiple levels.

This just is not one of them.

Let's extrapolate the premise for a second — apply it to a common-sense bigger picture.

We don't want or need armed musicians, roadies and lighting+sound engineers at festivals, for example. (Typing that feels ridiculous.)

Similarly, should we "flag" guests with military backgrounds and request they shoot to kill at music festivals and carnivals and bowl games and parades? (Like they haven't done enough for this country, already — they're "drafted" to fight combat-level gun violence at home, ffs?)

Why is it OK for a tennis coach or band instructor to shoot-to-kill around our kids?

Psshhhhhh, heck naw. Hard pass.

I disagree wholeheartedly with this assumption.

I don’t think that would be the case. People don’t think like that. Obviously it’s not a teacher’s job to protect children from a crazy guy with a gun. But it sure would be nice if teachers had that option. Nobody would even need to know which teachers carry and which don’t. Just like everywhere else in America where people are walking around with a handgun concealed on their person. Grocery stores, shopping malls, churches, offices, etc. Just end the ridiculous law that makes schools “gun free zones.” A teacher with a gun won’t be expected to save everyone in the case of a mass school shooting, but at least they’d have the ability to shoot back rather than hiding in a corner waiting to be killed.
 
  • #695
Step inside the Texas school district that already arms its teachers

Callisburg, Texas (CNN)While the nation debates whether teachers should carry guns to protect students from armed intruders, the question's already settled in one Texas school district, where educators have had firearms on campus for years.

"We'll do whatever's necessary to protect our kids and staff," Clugston told CNN. "We don't want to be at the mercy of somebody that's intent on doing harm."

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/23/health/texas-guns-school-district-trnd/index
 
  • #696
  • #697
Teachers with guns? Some Ohio districts arm staff but don’t tell public

http://www.mydaytondailynews.com/ne...f-but-don-tell-public/MjHYWX1vg26Enx1sfR1OXO/

Four years after bringing guns into Sidney City Schools, Superintendent John Scheu said more than 90 percent of the staff who first volunteered have stayed with the program. He said the district has no issue finding educators willing to bear arms.

“As a matter of fact, we have a waiting list,” Scheu said.
 
  • #698
Trump kinda sort repeats the 3 hiding cops lie in this
http://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...oting-even-without-a-gun#.WpRCEguGyJw.twitter

I wasn't gonna post it but fair is fair. he knows the truth by now.. why add to the conspiracy just because it suits nRA rhetoric?
i think it's despicable.

Buzz covered story in more depth
https://www.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeedne...ing?utm_term=.mcbWmPnB81&bftwnews#.lh5kvQnaEN

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/23/politics/parkland-school-shooting-broward-deputies/index.html

It seems the police department is upset that other deputies also were not entering the school.
 
  • #699
Step inside the Texas school district that already arms its teachers

Callisburg, Texas (CNN)While the nation debates whether teachers should carry guns to protect students from armed intruders, the question's already settled in one Texas school district, where educators have had firearms on campus for years.

"We'll do whatever's necessary to protect our kids and staff," Clugston told CNN. "We don't want to be at the mercy of somebody that's intent on doing harm."

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/23/health/texas-guns-school-district-trnd/index

Oh, Texas.
 
  • #700
https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/23/politics/parkland-school-shooting-broward-deputies/index.html

It seems the police department is upset that other deputies also were not entering the school.
If this is link already posted last night, the Sheriff's written letter to the governor is the more recent.
(I can rarely open cNN links or catch it on TV or laptop for some reason but am pretty sure from first paragraph that it precedes latest statement.

Gottit- here you go https://app.box.com/s/wsur9w49yyr1rxpgdsjvfslbcpyulggw
 
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