Gun Control Debate #2

[Tawny]

Trying to figure out how to post it so you don't even have to leave this tab...

[video=youtube;K2IOZ-5Nk5k]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2IOZ-5Nk5k[/video]

 

[bobcat]

The guard could have gotten to close range? Remember, Cruz was trained with weapons.

Maybe, maybe not. The least he could do is TRY. Possibly get in position and wait until Cruz is reloading, or for some other distraction. Just TRY. Do something, anything. That was his job, that’s why he was there!

 

[bobcat]

Trying to figure out how to post it so you don't even have to leave this tab...

I don’t know any hunters/gun enthusiasts who care about bump stocks. I had never even heard of them until Las Vegas.

 

[Tawny]

I don’t know any hunters/gun enthusiasts who care about bump stocks. I had never even heard of them until Las Vegas.

The video includes him firing the rifle without the bump stock.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

These shootings don't last but a few minutes, it doesn't take much and adrenaline gets you a long way.

I was 5'6", 115 lbs when I was trained on an M16, AT-4, 9mm, Grenade launcher...

I’m saying you’re formally trained & this shooter wasn’t. It’s the same reason I don’t buy a weapon like a Desert Eagle or a musket with my stature/frame and lack of formal, expert and repetitive military training.

I’m saying that it is **possible** that this was too much Gun for this civilian shooter which **may** have given the Deputy a window of opportunity. Do I think the Deputy was underarmed vs the shooter, yes. But there are variables that come into play that we can’t be certain of one way or the other.

In the other thread, there are links stating the shooters gun jammed or he ran out of ammo & dropped the gun & walked out amongst the others-mingling in.

 

[human]

Maybe, maybe not. The least he could do is TRY. Possibly get in position and wait until Cruz is reloading, or for some other distraction. Just TRY. Do something, anything. That was his job, that’s why he was there!

Where would the position be? The school is rather large, no? And he was not on the ground floor. Is that right?

 

[human]

I’m saying you’re formally trained & this shooter wasn’t. It’s the same reason I don’t buy a weapon like a Desert Eagle or a musket with my stature/frame and lack of formal, expert and repetitive military training.

I’m saying that it is **possible** that this was too much Gun for this civilian shooter which **may** have given the Deputy a window of opportunity. Do I think the Deputy was underarmed vs the shooter, yes. But there are variables that come into play that we can’t be certain of one way or the other.

In the other thread, there are links stating the shooters gun jammed or he ran out of ammo & dropped the gun & walked out amongst the others-mingling in.

Isn’t he a trained professional school shooter?

 

[Tawny]

I’m saying you’re formally trained & this shooter wasn’t. It’s the same reason I don’t buy a weapon like a Desert Eagle or a musket with my stature/frame and lack of formal, expert and repetitive military training.

I’m saying that it is **possible** that this was too much Gun for this civilian shooter which **may** have given the Deputy a window of opportunity. Do I think the Deputy was underarmed vs the shooter, yes. But there are variables that come into play that we can’t be certain of one way or the other.

In the other thread, there are links stating the shooters gun jammed or he ran out of ammo & dropped the gun & walked out amongst the others-mingling in.

My understanding is this wasn't his first time shooting and he had experience with firearms.

 

[flourish]

All guns can be deadly. But what I was referring to was the notion that someone with a handgun has zero chance against someone armed with an AR-15. Simply not true. Especially when the handgun is in the hands of an experienced and trained officer. No matter what, he should have gone into the school. He’s lying if he said he thought the shots were coming from outside. He called in and gave a description of the shooter! So he had seen him at some point. But he chose to be a coward and hid behind a car outside while children were being killed inside.

Please provide one or more links to support your assertions. Thanks.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Isn’t he a trained professional school shooter?

Cruz was not formally trained in the same sense as police or military training. So, no.
And since he was rather young, he’d be relatively novice with a semi-automatic weapon. I believe he bought it fairly recently.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

My understanding is this wasn't his first time shooting and he had experience with firearms.

Of course it wasn’t his first time shooting but will you at least concede he did not undergo the formal, repititous firearm training that you or law enforcement undergo?

 

[Tawny]

Of course it wasn’t his first time shooting but will you at least concede he did not undergo the formal, repititous firearm training that you or law enforcement undergo?

It doesn't matter if he did or not because it doesn't take a lot of muscle to operate one of these.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Trying to figure out how to post it so you don't even have to leave this tab...

[video=youtube;K2IOZ-5Nk5k]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2IOZ-5Nk5k[/video]

Thanks for the vid. Big, buff guy shooting an AR-15.
Watch......

 

[rosemadderlake]

There are fairly easy ways to turn a semi pistol, into an auto pistol, too (it takes three parts). The ways I've seen, I don't think are legal, but, if you are planning to murder lots of folks, legality is not an issue.

Full auto glock w/a 50 round drum
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idHpBFLmRis

I know I sound like a broken record, but, keeping firearms out of the hands of children/teens, in the home, is a good first step. There's also far too many toddlers finding firearms in the home, and killing themselves, or someone else, just from being a curious toddler. Folks recognizing that their family member may have a problem, and taking it seriously, is a close second. Don't take mentally unsound people to the firing range to bond, where they just get skilled at using their firearm, not to mention becoming good at marksmanship, and don't buy them firearms, or give them access to firearms.

Rtbm:
This is such a helpful post. I am in one of those living in one of the banned assault rifle, no open carry and super restricted conceal carry states, so am rather a Luddite when it comes to guns. --Farmers shooting a rabid raccoon. --Annual dear hunts. We protest the bear hunts but they happen anyway. We do have a very passionate historical militia group who knows revolutionary history and all the corresponding lands inside and out. We reenact Washington crossing the Delaware River each year, every December 25th. I've always felt knowing history gives so much context. Freedoms were hard won.

Fledgling government with many trials and tribulations goes on to become a superpower...

Go anywhere in the USA and find unique variations of our relatively short history.

There's no silver lining in a tragedy like Parkland but for the first time in a long time there's a bipartisan conversation happening. And a young generation coming up, is in pain, angry, and motivated.

Bbm: Yes, anyone intent on doing great harm will find a way... It's true, they are not concerned with the law. Not one.

The specific knowledge about guns by those who know is really helpful on several fronts. Why do people have guns? I think for some it is symbolic, others about heritage, others about nature, survival, and sport, and about safety. And about the ultimate sacrifice in defense of one's country. And because it is our right.

Where the panic about the rise in these horrendous massacres might be meeting the road is in the glamourization of a weapon of war in the disaffected mind? Why is the AR15 so popular? How has inflicting terror become a statement?

No broken record--rsd1200. I think you would be the finest spokesperson for responsible parenting and gun ownership.

--Campaigns can be a powerful adjunct tool, too. -Don't know if the NRA promotes it but responsible parenting, push for gun safety with kids could go a long way, too. Same with the government and states. We've done it with drinking & driving, seat belts, cigarettes, drugs, see something say something, all contributed to change in awareness.

 

[Tawny]

Thanks for the vid. Big, buff guy shooting an AR-15.
Watch......

So are we going to just ignore that someone with experience is saying it doesn't take massive muscles nor extensive training to use that to murder dozens?

Because I mean, that's what Cruz did...

 

[gitana1]

Thanks for the vid. Big, buff guy shooting an AR-15.
Watch......

I gotta' admit - that looks fun to shoot. It would likely bruise the hell out of me. I can understand why young men would be attracted to that type of gun. Ugh.

In other news, I;m sure you guys have been discussing? So Colton Haab and his father are big liars, huh? Actually edited an email in order to pretend CNN had scripted questions?

I thought something seemed fishy:

[FONT=&quot]Glenn Haab told The Associated Press he omitted some words from the email but said he didn't do it on purpose.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"There was nothing malicious behind it," he said.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/shooting-survivors-father-admits-email-changes-cnn-spat-213024427.html[/FONT]

 

[Tawny]

I gotta' admit - that looks fun to shoot. It would likely bruise the hell out of me. I can understand why young men would be attracted to that type of gun. Ugh.

In other news, I;m sure you guys have been discussing? So Colton Haab and his father are big liars, huh? Actually edited an email in order to pretend CNN had scripted questions?

I thought something seemed fishy:

[FONT="]Glenn Haab told The Associated Press he omitted some words from the email but said he didn't do it on purpose.[/FONT]
[FONT="]"There was nothing malicious behind it," he said.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/shooting-survivors-father-admits-email-changes-cnn-spat-213024427.html[/FONT]

Did they seriously think they would get away with that? Did they not consider that CNN would have copies of their end of the emails? WTH

 

[bobcat]

Please provide one or more links to support your assertions. Thanks.

:laughing: Sorry you'll need to do your own research. I have no links. I'm posting my opinions. What sort of links are you looking for?

 

[rsd1200]

The guard could have gotten to close range? Remember, Cruz was trained with weapons.

This was not just a rent-a-cop. The guard had weapons training too. I would hope. I may be wrong, but I think that LEOs are required to take continued training, and are trained to shoot at center mass.

Sources from Coral Springs, Fla., Police Department tell CNN that when its officers arrived on the scene Wednesday, they were shocked to find three Broward County Sheriff’s deputies behind their cars with weapons drawn.
The school’s armed resource officer, Broward County Sheriff’s Deputy Scot Peterson, was also outside. He resigned on Thursday after his failure to act was publicly revealed.

https://nypost.com/2018/02/23/four-sheriffs-deputies-hid-during-florida-school-shooting/

 

[gitana1]

I respect your posts, but on this one I disagree.
CNN has been caught in the past with setting up a town hall. They denied it for a long time till the truth came out. I believe the student over CNN.

[FONT=&quot]The father of a Florida shooting survivor acknowledged Tuesday he omitted words in an email he sent media outlets accusing CNN of using scripted remarks at a town hall on guns and school safety.
Stevenson told the father the additional language he proposed was "way too long" and Colton would need to stick to the question "that he submitted." The words "that he submitted" were left off the email sent to Fox News and Huffington Post.
Glenn Haab told The Associated Press he omitted some words from the email but said he didn't do it on purpose.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"There was nothing malicious behind it," he said.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/shooting-survivors-father-admits-email-changes-cnn-spat-213024427.html[/FONT]
Oh it was on purpose. You have to manually change an email and erase words to leave them off. The guy and his son are liars.