Gun Control Debate #5

[Karinna]

It seems to me that Constitutional rights would apply to all adults, which is considered to be the age of 18.

(quote)
Children's Rights
children's rights: an overview

A child is a person and not a subperson over whom the parent has an absolute possessory interest. The term "child" does not necessarily mean minor but can include adult children as well as adult nondependent children. Children are generally afforded the basic rights embodied by the Constitution. See Civil Rights of Children. The Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment is said to apply to children, born within a marriage or not, but excludes children not yet born. There are both state and federal sources of child-rights law.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/childrens_rights

 

[bobcat]

I wouldn't be proud of my daughters if they thought it fun to shoot guns that have killed so many people.

I’ve never heard of a Ruger 10/22 being used for murder.

 

[Karinna]

I wouldn't be proud of my daughters if they thought it fun to shoot guns that have killed so many people.

I think guns can have their place, but not for killing people. There are sports shooters as well, and shooting targets, but not necessarily anything that has a living & breathing life. Shooting is also an Olympic sport. All IMO.

 

[bobcat]

So you would say that children have NO constitutional rights until they are 18 then?

I don't know. We were talking about the right to bear arms. It doesn't make sense to me that it would apply to a three year old. But then, I'm not a lawyer so I'm not really the person to ask.

 

[Blef]

I think that it is because, at the age of 18, you are legally an adult. You can be tried for the death penalty, you can sign up to serve in the armed forces, (where you may be called to fight/die for your country), you can consent to sex, you can marry, sign binding contracts, most have their license to drive by then, and are able to work at most any job, legally, and buy a pack of smokes, so that age, applies, to many things in a young adults life, with the exception of drinking alcohol. One can become emancipated from their parents as early as age 14 too. Maybe the country needs to redefine legal adult?

do constitutional rights only apply to adults?

 

[Blef]

I don't know. We were talking about the right to bear arms. It doesn't make sense to me that it would apply to a three year old. But then, I'm not a lawyer so I'm not really the person to ask.

I’m not saying a 3 year old should have a gun. I asked you if you were saying children have NO constitutional rights as Americans.

 

[Jennifer17]

I think that it is because, at the age of 18, you are legally an adult. You can be tried for the death penalty, you can sign up to serve in the armed forces, (where you may be called to fight/die for your country), you can consent to sex, you can marry, sign binding contracts, most have their license to drive by then, and are able to work at most any job, legally, and buy a pack of smokes, so that age, applies, to many things in a young adults life, with the exception of drinking alcohol. One can become emancipated from their parents as early as age 14 too. Maybe the country needs to redefine legal adult?

But how will you do that? Another Supreme Court battle to interpret the constitution? How many times does this weak document need to be interpreted?

 

[bobcat]

I have always seen in matters of natural disasters that communities rally together to help each other, and it brings out the best in people, usually.

I'm thinking of situations such as the hurricane in 2005 that flooded New Orleans.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/01/AR2005090100533.html

Amid signs of growing lawlessness, with looters roaming the city with impunity, heavily armed state and local police made a show of force in some places. Police in body armor and carrying shotguns and assault rifles were posted in the French Quarter and other parts of downtown to keep order.

Angry crowds have repeatedly shot at rescue crews. Pilots with a private rescue service were fired on when they tried to air-drop supplies at Kenner Memorial Hospital Wednesday evening.

One of my concerns here in Washington state is if a volcanic eruption were to happen, especially if it were Mt. Rainier, we could be cut off from civilization for weeks, maybe months. In that case, with lots of people without food, water, and other necessities, a good supply of guns and ammunition could be a very useful thing to have.

 

[Karinna]

do constitutional rights only apply to adults?

From my previous link
Children are generally afforded the basic rights embodied by the Constitution.

 

[Karinna]

I'm thinking of situations such as the hurricane in 2005 that flooded New Orleans.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/01/AR2005090100533.html




One of my concerns here in Washington state is if a volcanic eruption were to happen, especially if it were Mt. Rainier, we could be cut off from civilization for weeks, maybe months. In that case, with lots of people without food, water, and other necessities, a good supply of guns and ammunition could be a very useful thing to have.

Yes natural disasters are a real concern for sure, but doesn't aid normally come to those people affected to get them to a safer place if people survive those disasters?

 

[Jennifer17]

I'm thinking of situations such as the hurricane in 2005 that flooded New Orleans.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/01/AR2005090100533.html




One of my concerns here in Washington state is if a volcanic eruption were to happen, especially if it were Mt. Rainier, we could be cut off from civilization for weeks, maybe months. In that case, with lots of people without food, water, and other necessities, a good supply of guns and ammunition could be a very useful thing to have.

Most of that stuff that was supposed to have happened in New Orleans was debunked. Fear tactics again.

 

[Jennifer17]

Yes natural disasters are a real concern for sure, but doesn't aid normally come to those people affected to get them to a safer place if people survive those disasters?

Yes..............

 

[Jennifer17]

You might read this Bob.

http://time.com/4172274/what-its-like-to-own-guns-in-a-country-with-strict-gun-control/

 

[Karinna]

Yes..............

I also think people get fair warning nowadays of a hurricane or if a volcano is about to erupt, and have to evacuate the area concerned. It's usually peeps that don't heed the warnings to get out that need rescuing. Not in every case perhaps, but mostly.

 

[bobcat]

Most of that stuff that was supposed to have happened in New Orleans was debunked. Fear tactics again.

Maybe so but either way it doesn't hurt to have a safe full of guns and plenty of ammunition. For those in a city, maybe not as important, but I'm not in a city.

 

[Blef]

From my previous link
Children are generally afforded the basic rights embodied by the Constitution.

Thank you.

So there is no age limit on the constitution. So technically via the constitution ALL Americans have the right to bear arms. From birth to death. All arms. However no-one argues it’s unconstitutional to stop a 3 year old from bearing arms! And why? Because safeguards in law are in place to stop that! So how can ANYONE say it’s unconstitutional to stop an 18 year old from buying an assault rifle? There are no ages specified. Your argument fundamentally says ALL Americans have the right to bear arms, so that means under 18s too or you are violating their constitutional rights. Or maybe, common sense and safeguards can be applied, and it’s not unconstitutional to raise the age from 18-21?

 

[Karinna]

Maybe so but either way it doesn't hurt to have a safe full of guns and plenty of ammunition. For those in a city, maybe not as important, but I'm not in a city.

If it makes you feel safer bobcat, then i'm good with that, because that is your right and your decision,

 

[rsd1200]

do constitutional rights only apply to adults?

I'm speaking to age of adulthood. Prior to age of adulthood none of those things can happen unless, you become emancipated from your parents, or the govt. decided to try a 13 y.o. as an adult (although, technically, they are not an adult, until age 18).

What you may be asking about is the Equal Protection clause, of our 14th Amendment. There are also state laws, and federal laws, enacted to protect children. However, a child is considered a person, of whom, the parents have the right to exercise control. If they do not do so, then that is when the state steps in, to protect the child. In other words, the way I understand it, it's my job to protect my child, and their rights, and if I fail to do so, the govt. will step in. IANAL, but, in seeing the "system", and foster parents, and parent plans, to try to mend a family, this is just my take on the subject. I will say this, it is unimaginable, how many young people are grimin on the streets. Literally couch surfing from night to night. Unless we address some of these root causes, in this country, we will never get anywhere. There is so much going on in the streets, and in the underbelly of these little towns that look a white picket fence dreams, that no one ever sees. Reminds me of Eminem's song, White America. No one cares til it reaches the middle class neighborhoods...

 

[Karinna]

Thank you.

So there is no age limit on the constitution. So technically via the constitution ALL Americans have the right to bear arms. From birth to death. All arms. However no-one argues it’s unconstitutional to stop a 3 year old from bearing arms! And why? Because safeguards in law are in place to stop that! So how can ANYONE say it’s unconstitutional to stop an 18 year old from buying an assault rifle? There are no ages specified. Your argument fundamentally says ALL Americans have the right to bear arms, so that means under 18s too or you are violating their constitutional rights. Or maybe, common sense and safeguards can be applied, and it’s not unconstitutional to raise the age from 18-21?

You're welcome. It does state after that sentence from the same article that:
See Civil Rights of Children. The Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment is said to apply to children

 

[Blef]

You're welcome. It does state after that sentence from the same article that:
See Civil Rights of Children. The Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment is said to apply to children

interestingly, similarly in the constitution it does not set limits on what type of arms. Yet citizens can’t own surface to air missiles, cruise missiles or nuclear bombs as far as I am aware. Why no uproar from those who love the 2nd amendment on that?