Gun Control Debate #5

[flourish]

Except new laws, if determined to be constitutional, will override what people think the 2nd amendment says, so it would not be violating any constitutional rights.

I wonder if they can like grandfather people in?

 

[bluesneakers]

(Not The Onion)

US Senate candidate proposes arming homeless people with shotguns

Michigan candidate Brian Ellison says giving homeless people pump-action shotguns may help deter the violent crime they face

Brian Ellison, who is running against Democratic incumbent Debbie Stabenow, says homeless people are “constantly victims of violent crime” and providing them with firearms would provide a deterrent.

Ellison, a Libertarian who is expected to be the party’s candidate in the November midterm election, said he had settled on pump-action shotguns for practicality purposes.

Ellison, a former soldier who has served in Iraq, said he decided to run for office “just to try and make a difference”. As well as the shotgun plan, he would focus on minority rights and said he would oppose foreign military intervention.

Regarding the pump-action shotguns, Ellison said he and his team would aim to “pre-qualify” homeless people who wanted shotguns and were deemed suitable candidates to own them.

Shotguns because carrying a concealed pistol is illegal without a permit.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Maine state candidate who called Parkland student 'skinhead lesbian' drops out of race http://thehill.com/homenews/campaig...alled-parkland-student-skinhead-lesbian-drops

 

[Blef]

maine state candidate who called parkland student 'skinhead lesbian' drops out of race http://thehill.com/homenews/campaig...alled-parkland-student-skinhead-lesbian-drops

good!

 

[Safeguard]

Just need to get this off my chest...

It's not entirely true, that all the March 14th walkouts were student led. Here in our district, there was a great push, by staff and administration of local schools, for students to participate in the March 14th program, ( of some sort, as the middle school students were not having staff approved walkouts, but the high schools were, in emails we received, they made it very clear that the middle school staff had planned curriculum, for that day, that involved "school safety" and "Civil Disobedience" and any student that did not follow "the plan for that day" would be disciplined.

The superintendent waxed poetic about her pride, respect and support, for those students who were participating, but what about the kids who would rather not take part? Do they just suck? Is it not ok to feel like your still a kid, and you just don't know enough right now? Everyone is all caught up in this "National Movement" but some kid's were anxious and confused on March 14th. What about them? Should they be needing to worry about this at school? How they will viewed, if they don't fall in line?

My daughter is 12 ( 13 in April). Area schools rescheduled events for the 15th due to snow. On that day, at 9:15am, the following texts were exchanged between me, and my Daughter:

"Hey Mom"
"Hey pirate"

"I heard kids are doing a walk out today at 10 and the teachers don't know?
I don't want to get in trouble, or miss french class, so i won't go but I'm worried y'know"

"This is a free block btw. We were supposed to be in gym, but the gym was taken and is being used to support the florida school. the kids who are supposed to be in gym were sent to the library to chill"

"Pirate, where will you be, at exactly ten? (on a usual day I mean)."

"French"

"sounds very disorganized. I would suggest going to French class as usual then, and the teacher can probably let you know more about whats going on. It's ok Pirate. They really are making a huge thing out of a 17 minute event. Are you at the library now?"

"yeah we had a little teacher/student event first period but this walk out is supposed to be unplanned?!"


Long and short of it is, she went to class, no one walked out, and a very confusing and stressful day came to an end for my kid.
But WHY does my kid need to deal with this at school? She's 12. If she wants to grow up a bit before she takes on adult political responsibilities, I have her back!

 

[human]

Just need to get this off my chest...

It's not entirely true, that all the March 14th walkouts were student led. Here in our district, there was a great push, by staff and administration of local schools, for students to participate in the March 14th program, ( of some sort, as the middle school students were not having staff approved walkouts, but the high schools were, in emails we received, they made it very clear that the middle school staff had planned curriculum, for that day, that involved "school safety" and "Civil Disobedience" and any student that did not follow "the plan for that day" would be disciplined.

The superintendent waxed poetic about her pride, respect and support, for those students who were participating, but what about the kids who would rather not take part? Do they just suck? Is it not ok to feel like your still a kid, and you just don't know enough right now? Everyone is all caught up in this "National Movement" but some kid's were anxious and confused on March 14th. What about them? Should they be needing to worry about this at school? How they will viewed, if they don't fall in line?

My daughter is 12 ( 13 in April). Area schools rescheduled events for the 15th due to snow. On that day, at 9:15am, the following texts were exchanged between me, and my Daughter:

"Hey Mom"
"Hey pirate"

"I heard kids are doing a walk out today at 10 and the teachers don't know?
I don't want to get in trouble, or miss french class, so i won't go but I'm worried y'know"

"This is a free block btw. We were supposed to be in gym, but the gym was taken and is being used to support the florida school. the kids who are supposed to be in gym were sent to the library to chill"

"Pirate, where will you be, at exactly ten? (on a usual day I mean)."

"French"

"sounds very disorganized. I would suggest going to French class as usual then, and the teacher can probably let you know more about whats going on. It's ok Pirate. They really are making a huge thing out of a 17 minute event. Are you at the library now?"

"yeah we had a little teacher/student event first period but this walk out is supposed to be unplanned?!"


Long and short of it is, she went to class, no one walked out, and a very confusing and stressful day came to an end for my kid.
But WHY does my kid need to deal with this at school? She's 12. If she wants to grow up a bit before she takes on adult political responsibilities, I have her back!

1.is getting shot in school a kid or adult event?

2.I would get the agenda and info from the schools. Are there written materials?

3. My grandchildren participated with the blessing of their other grandparents and aunts and uncles. Since there were students who were participating with the blessing of family, the day would be disrupted . 17 minutes is hardly all day.

4.teachers and other staff have died in school shootings,Some may have friends or relatives who have died or been injured in other shootings, They probavly do not want to die either.

5.Does the school do active shooter drills or lockdowns?

6.Are children anywhere sheltered from the news of school or other mass shootings?

7. Having a program that kids can attend on school safety is upsetting because.......

 

[human]

http://time.com/5171160/gun-control-student-protest-history/

1969, the court ruled that students do not “shed their constitutional rights to freedom of speech or expression at the schoolhouse gate,” as Justice Abe Fortas put it in the majority opinion for Tinker v. Des Moines Independent Community School District.

At the center of the case was a 13-year-old from Des Moines named Mary Beth Tinker and her 15-year-old brother John, who were part of a group of five public school students suspended on Dec. 16, 1965, for wearing black armbands to school to protest the war in Vietnam. They weren’t allowed to go back to school until they agreed to go without wearing the armbands, so the Tinkers stayed home for a week. When they returned to school, they wore all-black clothes on the advice of the ACLU.

Tinker, a retired pediatric nurse who now lectures on First Amendment rights at schools, had been inspired to speak out after seeing images of body bags and displaced children on the nightly news. Her brother had attended a march in Washington earlier that year and brought home the idea to wear armbands.

“We were upset when we saw signs of killing right around Christmas,” she tells TIME. “We wanted to speak up for peace at Christmas time. My dad was a Methodist minister, and he always said if you don’t follow your conscience, we could have the Nazis.”

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

-How the Internet Tricks You Into Thinking You're Always Right

A guide to busting through confirmation bias, the cognitive fallacy that's destroying our discourse.

[video]http://www.wired.com/video/how-the-internet-tricks-you-into-thinking-you-re-always-right[/video]

https://www.wired.com/video/how-the-internet-tricks-you-into-thinking-you-re-always-right

 

[KaaBoom]

Only to annoy the Brits, honestly.

I believe it was because the they wanted influence and access to North American markets that they had lost in the Seven Years War.

 

[ohreally]

-How the Internet Tricks You Into Thinking You're Always Right

A guide to busting through confirmation bias, the cognitive fallacy that's destroying our discourse.

[video]http://www.wired.com/video/how-the-internet-tricks-you-into-thinking-you-re-always-right[/video]

https://www.wired.com/video/how-the-internet-tricks-you-into-thinking-you-re-always-right

This video is so true. I believe our biases are based on our life experiences and if we only read or watch left leaning or right leaning views we will only see one perspective. In my opinion the gun debate will never find a solution as long as either side is not willing to have an open dialogue. IMO automatic negative come backs to a person on the other side shuts down the dialogue and turns it into an argument instead of a debate. It's a shame, because I would like to see a solution..

 

[Lulu_la_Nantaise]

I believe it was because the they wanted influence and access to North American markets that they had lost in the Seven Years War.

That too, but throughout history never underestimate French willingness to be a thorn in English side and vice versa

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Timeline of pivotal moments in US gun control history

https://wtop.com/national/2018/03/timeline-of-pivotal-moments-in-us-gun-control-history/

[FONT=&quot]Gun control is one of the most polarizing issues in U.S. society. For nearly a century, legislation and U.S. Supreme Court cases have shaped federal gun policy. Following are some pivotal moments in that history:[/FONT]

 

[Blef]

That too, but throughout history never underestimate French willingness to be a thorn in English side and vice versa

Oh yes, even now we like to annoy each other whenever we can for any reason imaginable. Mostly in jest these days mind you

 

[Blef]

I've read several people say "I don't pay my tax dollars for school walkouts" and other things. Would they rather pay for a school walk out or on supporting someone on disability for the rest of their lives as a result of a school shootings?​

 

[flourish]

I've read several people say "I don't pay my tax dollars for school walkouts" and other things. Would they rather pay for a school walk out or on supporting someone on disability for the rest of their lives as a result of a school shootings?​

Honestly, I don't think those people understand and/or care about how one piece of our society supports others and vice versa... Like, pathological short-sightedness.

Several years ago I was at an intersection waiting to make a left turn. The light turned green, but I first had to wait for incoming traffic and then some pedestrians and a dude on a bicycle. Behind me was another car, then a guy on a motorcycle, then another car, then a police car. The guy on the motorcycle became quickly agitated as soon as the light turned green. When I didn't go immediately, as I didn't have the right of way, he began honking and yelling. When the oncoming traffic passed and I still didn't go, on account of not wanting to mow down pedestrians and bike dude, he just came unglued. From his visual perspective he likely couldn't actually see the pedestrians, but it doesn't take much thought to deduct that was what was going on--more often than not there are pedestrians at that intersection.

That's what that attitude reminds me of--so isolated in one's own world and bubble that it becomes a refusal to see the bigger picture, and to consider the perspective of others.

 

[bluesneakers]

I've read several people say "I don't pay my tax dollars for school walkouts" and other things. Would they rather pay for a school walk out or on supporting someone on disability for the rest of their lives as a result of a school shootings?​

I think it's just a thing they say. A way to complain about the students and the message while pretending that's not what they're doing.

 

[bluesneakers]

Honestly, I don't think those people understand and/or care about how one piece of our society supports others and vice versa... Like, pathological short-sightedness.

sbm

Like people who refuse to a server and say "No one tips me at my job!"

 

[Blef]

Honestly, I don't think those people understand and/or care about how one piece of our society supports others and vice versa... Like, pathological short-sightedness.

Several years ago I was at an intersection waiting to make a left turn. The light turned green, but I first had to wait for incoming traffic and then some pedestrians and a dude on a bicycle. Behind me was another car, then a guy on a motorcycle, then another car, then a police car. The guy on the motorcycle became quickly agitated as soon as the light turned green. When I didn't go immediately, as I didn't have the right of way, he began honking and yelling. When the oncoming traffic passed and I still didn't go, on account of not wanting to mow down pedestrians and bike dude, he just came unglued. From his visual perspective he likely couldn't actually see the pedestrians, but it doesn't take much thought to deduct that was what was going on--more often than not there are pedestrians at that intersection.

That's what that attitude reminds me of--so isolated in one's own world and bubble that it becomes a refusal to see the bigger picture, and to consider the perspective of others.

Their opinion reminds me of something I heard Judge Milian say once on People's Court (I know, I know, it's my guilty pleasure lol). She said "hey, it's your world, we just live in it!"

I can't understand why anyone thinks they have no social responsibility. I appreciate so much living in countries that have a welfare system, education paid for, roads maintained, etc. And in the UK and Canada free health care. We are not just individuals living in our own little world, we are societal, we are creatures that need each other to exist. And the "I don't pay my taxes for....." argument angers me. I can't remember on any tax form I've ever seen that you can specify EXACTLY what your taxes pay for. It smacks me of total selfish thinking. Thank goodness there are people who don't think like that too.

 

[MaryG12]

Honestly, I don't think those people understand and/or care about how one piece of our society supports others and vice versa... Like, pathological short-sightedness.

Several years ago I was at an intersection waiting to make a left turn. The light turned green, but I first had to wait for incoming traffic and then some pedestrians and a dude on a bicycle. Behind me was another car, then a guy on a motorcycle, then another car, then a police car. The guy on the motorcycle became quickly agitated as soon as the light turned green. When I didn't go immediately, as I didn't have the right of way, he began honking and yelling. When the oncoming traffic passed and I still didn't go, on account of not wanting to mow down pedestrians and bike dude, he just came unglued. From his visual perspective he likely couldn't actually see the pedestrians, but it doesn't take much thought to deduct that was what was going on--more often than not there are pedestrians at that intersection.

That's what that attitude reminds me of--so isolated in one's own world and bubble that it becomes a refusal to see the bigger picture, and to consider the perspective of others.

BBM

That reminds me of something, actually a couple of things, my mother used to tell me from day one, and I suspect it's more often taught to females in American society than to males:

"You need to put others first. Think of others first."

And there is a lot of truth in that. Even during my college psychology class I'd hear that a lot. Because as women we are socialized to put the needs of those around us, ahead of our own. Our own needs to be met, well, that's what husbands are for.

The other thing my mother liked saying, and this was before American society was officially labeled "The Me First Society", was referring to people like those irate drivers behind you at the stoplight, as being "I've got mine how are you doing over there?". Kind of funny now that I think about it, but it is true.

Our society has become too "Me first/Look out for Number One".

Then we wonder why things like school shootings happen...

 

[MaryG12]

Their opinion reminds me of something I heard Judge Milian say once on People's Court (I know, I know, it's my guilty pleasure lol). She said "hey, it's your world, we just live in it!"

I can't understand why anyone thinks they have no social responsibility. I appreciate so much living in countries that have a welfare system, education paid for, roads maintained, etc. And in the UK and Canada free health care. We are not just individuals living in our own little world, we are societal, we are creatures that need each other to exist. And the "I don't pay my taxes for....." argument angers me. I can't remember on any tax form I've ever seen that you can specify EXACTLY what your taxes pay for. It smacks me of total selfish thinking. Thank goodness there are people who don't think like that too.

Tax dollars pay for health care, health care is never totally "free".

Anyways that brings to mind an article that passed through my hands at work a few days ago, about Canadian doctors and salaries, chances are you already saw it, if not, here it is:

http://www.newsweek.com/500-canadian-doctors-protest-pay-raise-834813