Gun Control Debate #5

[bluesneakers]

No it's not ridiculous. It's symptomatic of a group of people who value damn individualism before anything. The "I'm alright Jack" brigade, who don't care about society enough to see that their individual rights are not more important than society as a whole. The question is valid, would you rather see your tax dollars spent on a walkout or paying disability for life for a child shot in a school?

People talk about rugged individualism like it's a great characteristic and something to be proud of, but really it's just selfishness.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

I too was a high school student, and i will tell you that all the students looked forward to a fire drill or bomb scare drill to get out of class.

Oh, absolutely. We never had a bomb scare, but we had fire drills. Those were scheduled. We didn’t really believe we’d all die in a fire due to all the safety precautions, sprinklers, etc.

But active shooter drills, I imagine, especially as a high school student, would be a bit more real. It’s not like everyone walks outside nice and calm as teachers do a headcount and you get to say hi to all your friends.

Active shooter means certain carnage. You wonder if your friends are murdered, or whether you should hide under your best friend’s bloody corpse just to stay alive.

IMO

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

That’s a ridiculous thing to say. This school walk out isn't going to prevent future school shootings. It was nothing more than a political stunt pushing a gun control agenda using children who don't understand the issues.

In your opinion.

Otherwise, we need a forum-acceptable news link/source. TIA

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Where is the connection proven between Sarsour and the student walkouts? Not in that article...?

There isn’t one. It’s a diversion, a conspiracy theory; a way to minimize and demean these kids, families, communities and first responders.

It’s a misguided attempt to invalidate the issue — which is the need for gun reform.

It’s not worth arguing, imo, because it’s irrelevant.

Moo

 

[flourish]

There isn’t one. It’s a diversion, a conspiracy theory; a way to minimize and demean these kids, families, communities and first responders.

It’s a misguided attempt to invalidate the issue — which is the need for gun reform.

It’s not worth arguing, imo, because it’s irrelevant.

Moo

Okay thank you I'd looked it up and I'm just finding crazy extreme right wing stuff. You're probably right.

 

[Elley Mae]

People talk about rugged individualism like it's a great characteristic and something to be proud of, but really it's just selfishness.

Yes I’m all for less to no gov control.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Updated story.

@pewresearch: Our new analysis finds a striking correlation between Google search trends and a commonly used measure of U.S. gun sales: the number of background checks

https://t.co/Pls0v4eC6u https://twitter.com/pewresearch/status/974679645961510912

From this link:

Unlike in the aftermath of some other recent mass shootings, Google search activity did not increase in the months of the Las Vegas or Parkland attacks. Between 2012 and 2018, monthly Google search interest in the guns in our analysis increased notably in the months of several high-profile mass shootings, including those in Newtown, Connecticut, in December 2012 and in San Bernardino, California, in December 2015. (This analysis examines the calendar month in which each shooting took place, not a specific period after the shooting.)

However, there was no similar increase in monthly search activity for gun models in October 2017, when the Las Vegas shooting happened, or this past February, the month of the Parkland, Florida, high school shooting.

In fact, average search activity in those two months was lower than the average of the same month the previous year.

Again, this overall pattern is reflected in FBI background check data: The number of background checks soared in the months of the Newtown and San Bernardino attacks, but not in the months of the Las Vegas or Parkland shootings.

When considering Google search data as a research tool, it’s important to keep several caveats in mind. For one thing, 11% of Americans don’t use the internet, which means their interest in guns can’t be measured through an analysis of online searches

 

[Elley Mae]

There isn’t one. It’s a diversion, a conspiracy theory; a way to minimize and demean these kids, families, communities and first responders.

It’s a misguided attempt to invalidate the issue — which is the need for gun reform.

It’s not worth arguing, imo, because it’s irrelevant.

Moo

Demean the kids? Wth

The kids are not at fault here.

 

[Blef]

People talk about rugged individualism like it's a great characteristic and something to be proud of, but really it's just selfishness.

Hear Hear

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Interesting.

Tim Fischer, former deputy prime minister who helped to pass landmark reforms after the 1996 Port Arthur massacre, says he believes a “wave” of firearm lobbying influenced by the US National Rifle Association is putting renewed pressure on Australian gun laws.

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...-firearms-lobby-targeting-australias-gun-laws

From the link:

Fischer told the Guardian he believed “NRA-inspired” lobbying coupled with the increased influence of rightwing parties such as One Nation in Canberra and the Shooters, Fishers and Farmers party in New South Wales had influenced a “pushback” against Australia’s gun laws, and called on politicians to stand up to pressure.

(snip)

Fischer’s warning comes in the context of an increasingly well-funded and organised gun lobby with ties to weapons importers and manufacturers.

(snip)

A lobbying outfit whose directors include some of Australia’s largest gun dealers, Sifa has only five members and represents a departure from the membership-driven model of most shooting groups in Australia.

But what it lacks in numbers it makes up for in funding and influence.

Financial disclosures published with the Australian Securities and Investment Commission show that Sifa’s five members pumped $768,000 into the group in the 2016-17 financial year.

Among the members is Robert Nioa, the managing director of the largest small arms importer in Australia.

Aside from being a major donor to his father-in-law, the independent federal MP Bob Katter, Nioa’s company receives millions of dollars in defence contracts from the Australian government and Nioa himself is well connected politically.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Demean the kids? Wth

The kids are not at fault here.

Agreed, Elley. Exactly. Making false analogies and spreading false information further victimizes all of them, too. It’s unconscionable, imo.

 

[Blef]

Yes I’m all for less to no gov control.

It's not about government control. Taxes are necessary for societal good.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Yes I’m all for less to no gov control.

Are you saying you’re pro-anarchy? I’m intrigued. Please, tell me more.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anarchy

Primary definitions:

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

I was not aware that “society as a whole” had rights.

That’s what makes America great.

Of course the society as a whole has rights.

They are spelled out in our constitution and its amendments, ya know, the bill of rights, our social contracts, all that stuff. It’s the foundation of our society and government.

Were most kids’ fire and safety drills usually done during civics class, or ... ???

https://www.senate.gov/civics/constitution_item/constitution.htm

https://nccs.net/blogs/americas-founding-documents/bill-of-rights-amendments-1-10

http://www.u-s-history.com/pages/h926.html

http://constitution.findlaw.com/amendments.html

 

[bluesneakers]

Yes I’m all for less to no gov control.

Individualism is nice in small doses, but don't forget the government pays for the military, for public schools, for highways, for law enforcement, for fire departments, for the CIA, the FBI, for veterans health care, etc., etc. Taxes we pay for the good of society.

 

[Blef]

Interesting opinion piece from The Guardian on the 2nd Amendment

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/17/second-amendment-nra-corey-brettschneider

 

[bluesneakers]

Interesting opinion piece from The Guardian on the 2nd Amendment

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/17/second-amendment-nra-corey-brettschneider

This pro-regulatory reading of the Constitution is historically and textually accurate, but it is far from the NRA’s reading. In fact, the NRA has misleadingly described these proposals as unconstitutional. Moreover, NRA CEO Wayne LaPierre goes so far as to claim that a conspiracy has long been underway, orchestrated by the Obama administration, George Soros and the United Nations, to seize every gun in America.

And his people believe. But funny thing - I don't remember Obama taking everyone's guns they way they said he would.

But if LaPierre believes that all those supporting gun regulation are part of this deep state conspiracy, then the heavily conservative supreme court must be included as well. They’ve clearly upheld the kind of legislation being considered right now in Congress, but no one could plausibly claim that Republican appointed Justice Alito or Chief Justice Roberts is out to confiscate Americans’ firearms.

I hadn't thought of it like that, but yes, they must believe the Justices are in on it too. Should the NRA be the one to approve nominees?

 

[Blef]

And his people believe. But funny thing - I don't remember Obama taking everyone's guns they way they said he would.



I hadn't thought of it like that, but yes, they must believe the Justices are in on it too. Should the NRA be the one to approve nominees?

I think the piece raises some very important points about the motivation of the NRA, ones that the NRA would never dare to address as it would show that the only thing that interests them is gun sales.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Teachers Are Overwhelmingly Opposed to Carrying Guns in Schools, Says Survey

http://time.com/5203935/arming-teachers-gun-control-poll/

From the link:

Nearly 75% of teachers oppose the idea of being trained to carry guns in schools, a new survey finds.

According to an online Gallup survey released Friday, 63% surveyed strongly opposed the idea of arming teachers, with 10% somewhat opposing the measure. Only 11% strongly favored the idea, and 7% were neutral. Yet just 18% of the teachers surveyed said they would go through training to carry a gun if their district or administrators provided it.

Meanwhile, six in 10 teachers think schools would become less safe if educators armed themselves, though seven in 10 think it would in effective in stopping the next mass shooting.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Survivors of Fla. school shooting take gun control message abroad

http://www.heraldtribune.com/news/2...hool-shooting-take-gun-control-message-abroad

DUBAI, United Arab Emirates — Student survivors of the worst high school shooting in U.S. history took their message abroad for the first time on Saturday, calling for greater gun safety measures and sharing with educational professionals from around the world their frightening experience.

The Feb. 14 attack in Florida killed 17 people, 14 of them students, becoming one of the deadliest school shootings in U.S. history. The attack was carried out by a former student wielding an assault-style rifle who strode into one of the school buildings and opened fire.

“It’s so important to be educated, and to be educated in a productive sense is to feel safe at school,” Suzanna Barna, 17, said. “No child should ever have to go through what we did.”