Gun Control Debate #5

[tricia]

Hey Everyone,

Let's watch it with the personal posts. I don't care who starts it. Anyone who participates will be timed out.

Thank you,
Tricia

 

[Woodland]

One of the best ideas so far imo is for gun owners to have mandatory insurance for owning a gun. Liability of maybe $2 mil minimum per gun - no idea what a premium on that and more would cost.

It would start to put the onus on gun owners to keep their guns out of the wrong hands. If the gun owner has losses (ie the life of one of their children or other type of loss) it's unlikely an insurance company would cover them (funeral costs etc), but a victim from a gunshot from the careless gun owner would have coverage - medical, funeral, punitive in a lawsuit etc.

If a gun owner fails to get insurance, that should carry a hefty fine in and of itself, and if someone is shot with the gun of someone without insurance then the owner should have to make monthly payments until the cost of the damage is paid in full.

I believe I first saw this from KaBoom (spelling?). It would be a brilliant start imo.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

What a bizarre thing to imply that youths who are tired of being gunned down in schools and say as much are a bunch of left-wing democrats.

They’re students.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...-walkout-student-profiles-20180307-story.html

http://mainepublic.org/post/portlan...gun-violence-horrible-new-reality-us#stream/0

https://www.buzzfeed.com/juliareinstein/parkland-walkouts?utm_term=.leb2v210pQ#.oiB3g31JwW

https://qz.com/1226812/school-walkout-us-students-will-protest-for-gun-control-nationwide/

http://www.wral.com/students-organizing-nationwide-walkout-over-gun-violence/17402383/

https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/14/us/national-school-walkout-gun-violence-protests/index.html

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/r...un-violence/6xySlqWpIJucXzvzhbaD3J/story.html

I never said the students are a bunch of left wing democrats.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

These were organized by kids. Not left-wing anything. Links provided.

I've provided links throughout. The Women's March Youth Empower had a part in organizing the walkout. They are left wing and at least one of the organizers spouts anti semitism, I've given several links to that as well.

 

[Woodland]

I've provided links throughout. The Women's March Youth Empower had a part in organizing the walkout.

Does it matter who helped give these kids a voice in their fear? Fail to see how hammering away at this will help the debate - to keep people safe.

 

[Karinna]

Sheriff: 9-year-old shoots, kills older sister in video game controller dispute

http://wreg.com/2018/03/19/sheriff-...lder-sister-in-video-game-controller-dispute/


Another "responsible gun owner," I see.

Yeah it really makes me wonder about parent/s that leave a loaded gun in proximity of a young child to be able to do such a thing. How damn irresponsible IMO.

 

[Karinna]

Does it matter who helped give these kids a voice in their fear? Fail to see how hammering away at this will help the debate - to keep people safe.

No it doesn't. As long as they can express what they are going through, which i imagine they have a need to, it's good they have a platform to do it.

 

[ohreally]

One of the best ideas so far imo is for gun owners to have mandatory insurance for owning a gun. Liability of maybe $2 mil minimum per gun - no idea what a premium on that and more would cost.

It would start to put the onus on gun owners to keep their guns out of the wrong hands. If the gun owner has losses (ie the life of one of their children or other type of loss) it's unlikely an insurance company would cover them (funeral costs etc), but a victim from a gunshot from the careless gun owner would have coverage - medical, funeral, punitive in a lawsuit etc.

If a gun owner fails to get insurance, that should carry a hefty fine in and of itself, and if someone is shot with the gun of someone without insurance then the owner should have to make monthly payments until the cost of the damage is paid in full.

I believe I first saw this from KaBoom (spelling?). It would be a brilliant start imo.

I am not so sure that would be legal. Many states are in court litigation now by requiring government Id's to vote (constitutional right) The argument is that the cost of getting a government is too costly for the poor. I would think that requiring insurance for gun ownership (constitutional right) would fall under the same argument. Not saying I am against the idea, I just think it would be unconstitutional.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

Does it matter who helped give these kids a voice in their fear? Fail to see how hammering away at this will help the debate - to keep people safe.

Yes, it matters to me. The motives of that group are questionable in my opinion.

ETA: The group referred to is Women's March Youth Empower

 

[Woodland]

I am not so sure that would be legal. Many states are in court litigation now by requiring government Id's to vote (constitutional right) The argument is that the cost of getting a government is too costly for the poor. I would think that requiring insurance for gun ownership (constitutional right) would fall under the same argument. Not saying I am against the idea, I just think it would be unconstitutional.

Fail to see the relationship between the two topics. People want/need/are looking for a solution to the problem of people constantly being shot in the US.

 

[Woodland]

Yes, it matters to me. The motives of that group are questionable in my opinion.

That's fine - voicing a pet peeve once usually works.

Solutions to the problem?

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Yeah it really makes me wonder about parent/s that leave a loaded gun in proximity of a young child to be able to do such a thing. How damn irresponsible IMO.

Obviously gun owners who have young children in their homes need to make sure that the kids don't have access to the guns and ammunition.

That doesn't mean that people with children in their homes can not have firearms in their home for self defense. They just have to take extra measures to make sure the kids living in their home don't have access to the guns or the ability to fire them by using gun safes or trigger locks when the adult doesn't have direct possession of the gun and keeping ammunition locked in a safe or other container that prevents children from getting to them.

Will these measures make it more difficult for a gun owner who has children do use their gun in self defense of an intruder? Maybe in some situations. But that's the price people have to pay to prevent kids from getting hold of guns and killing or injuring others.

JMO

 

[ohreally]

Fail to see the relationship between the two topics. People want/need/are looking for a solution to the problem of people constantly being shot in the US.

Yes, we are trying to find solutions, but solutions have to be legal or they won't pass into law. I do not know that it would be illegal, but my belief is that it would not be illegal, based on the argument of cost incurred if a govenment ID card is required to vote.
Just like with the right to vote, the right to own guns is guaranteed by the constitution. All of us have our constitutional rights, not just the rich will be the argument. IMO

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

That's fine - voicing a pet peeve once usually works.

Solutions to the problem?

Here are some of my suggestions

1. I would like to see the criminal background check system improved. Federal agencies or any others responsible for updating the system should have some penalty for failing to update. I want to see more prosecution of those lying on the federal criminal background check form with fines and jail time as stated on the form. Only an average of 32 people per year are ever considered for prosecution.

2. Arming teachers and security guards would be proactive. I'm not talking about just any teacher but those that volunteer and undergo psychological exams and training specifically designed for schools. I think this would at the very least give an opportunity to take out a threat. Shore up the schools with metal detectors especially in higher crime areas. I don't like the gun free zone signs at school. How many people would be willing to put a gun free sign on their lawns.

3. I think implementing red flag laws might be a good idea. I don't know exactly how this would work but I think a judge could have a gun removed at least temporarily from those that pose a threat to themselves or others. I think this would have worked in the case of the Florida shooter.

 

[Karinna]

Obviously gun owners who have young children in their homes need to make sure that the kids don't have access to the guns and ammunition.

That doesn't mean that people with children in their homes can not have firearms in their home for self defense. They just have to take extra measures to make sure the kids living in their home don't have access to the guns or the ability to fire them by using gun safes or trigger locks when the adult doesn't have direct possession of the gun and keeping ammunition locked in a safe or other container that prevents children from getting to them.

Will these measures make it more difficult for a gun owner who has children do use their gun in self defense of an intruder? Maybe in some situations. But that's the price people have to pay to prevent kids from getting hold of guns and killing or injuring others.

JMO

Yes, exactly. As a parent it is definitely the parents responsibility to make sure the home is safe for children in all kinds of ways. Especially if firearms are on the premises. Once tragedy happens it's too late. As they say an ounce of prevention....

 

[Woodland]

Yes, we are trying to find solutions, but solutions have to be legal or they won't pass into law. I do not know that it would be illegal, but my belief is that it would not be illegal, based on the argument of cost incurred if a govenment ID card is required to vote.
Just like with the right to vote, the right to own guns is guaranteed by the constitution. All of us have our constitutional rights, not just the rich will be the argument. IMO

The thinking/interpretation on the US constitutional right to own guns has evolved over time - a very long time. Much apathy goes with that thinking/interpretation now imo. The founding fathers didn't come up with the right for the average person to have an AR 15 or anything similar at their fingertips - or at the fingertips of those around them.

Since so many have died and continue to die daily, imo the US needs to 'suck it up' and 'walk it back' some to where it's reasonable and manageable. This 'right' is so out of control people can't see straight, nor can anyone find an easy way out of the self built quagmire.

The apathy towards guns is drifting north of the 49th parallel - we all need to give a little to work out a solution. Jmo.

 

[MaryG12]

Yeah it really makes me wonder about parent/s that leave a loaded gun in proximity of a young child to be able to do such a thing. How damn irresponsible IMO.

https://www.clarionledger.com/story...e-fatal-shooting-victim-identified/437908002/

Authorities don't know how the child had access to the weapon they say he used to shoot his sister, but authorities said they believe the weapon belonged to the mother's live-in boyfriend.

BBM

.....................................................

And the mother was feeding lunch to 3-4 other kids in another room?!

I'm almost afraid to ask if each kid had its own father. Or just a bunch of uncles, and that live-in boyfriend who should not be there anyways.

MOO

 

[Woodland]

https://www.clarionledger.com/story...e-fatal-shooting-victim-identified/437908002/

Authorities don't know how the child had access to the weapon they say he used to shoot his sister, but authorities said they believe the weapon belonged to the mother's live-in boyfriend.

BBM

.....................................................

And the mother was feeding lunch to 3-4 other kids in another room?!

I'm almost afraid to ask if each kid had its own father. Or just a bunch of uncles, and that live-in boyfriend who should not be there anyways.

MOO

Not sure where the last part comes from - is that an assumption?

Imo this part contributes to the problem -

In Mississippi, there is no law that holds an adult responsible when children have access to weapons that are not secured. Cantrell said at this point it's just not clear whether there will be charges on the adults in the home, or on the 9-year-old alleged shooter.

https://www.clarionledger.com/story...e-fatal-shooting-victim-identified/437908002/

 

[flourish]

I did not say a guns need to be provided free of charge. I was comparing the requirement of goverment ID and gun insurance. I was only stating my opinion that it might not be legal and explained why it might not be from court cases that are currently going and thier reasoning regarding voting. I will agree to disagree and not argue my point.

Uh I never said or implied you shouldn't argue my point. I was just considering other possibilities and perspectives on the subject.

 

[kaen]

https://www.clarionledger.com/story...e-fatal-shooting-victim-identified/437908002/

Authorities don't know how the child had access to the weapon they say he used to shoot his sister, but authorities said they believe the weapon belonged to the mother's live-in boyfriend.

BBM

.....................................................

And the mother was feeding lunch to 3-4 other kids in another room?!

I'm almost afraid to ask if each kid had its own father. Or just a bunch of uncles, and that live-in boyfriend who should not be there anyways.

MOO

I am a bit speechless that you would refer to "each kid had its own father" in reference to the children in the house. "its" as a term for a human is not appropriate and refers to them as less than.

As this is a gun control thread, I would say that I am appalled that we don't have laws in every state about locking up and storing fire arms in a house. Too many children get access to guns each year. It seems to me that we could get consensus on this one, no?