Gun Control Debate #6

[EuTuCroquet?]

Budget Deal Lifts Ban On Federal Research Of Gun Violence.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/dickey-amendment-budget-deal_us_5ab2c67fe4b008c9e5f3cbfe

WASHINGTON ―The federal government would finally be authorized to study gun violence under a provision included in a two-year $1.3 trillion spending package released by congressional leaders Wednesday night.

HALLELUJAH [emoji120][emoji119]

 

[Woodland]

This is my city so was happy to see some progress on gun control.

http://abc6onyourside.com/news/loca...un-regulations-after-record-year-of-homicides

Eleven new regulations were announced including banning the sale of bump stocks, banning the sale of imitation guns to minors, banning commercial weapons sales in residential areas, expanding domestic violence protections to people in dating relationships, pursuing automatic six-month jail sentences for domestic violence crimes involving guns and petitioning courts to take away guns from domestic violence offenders.

This is a great start imo. It's putting some onus back on the gun owners. Hoping that in time the onus will increase to the level it should be at.

 

[Woodland]

Canada seems unable to come to grips with the level our gun problem. Looks to be the same arguments on both sides here as well - one side downplays an increase in violence, the other side sees an increase that need not get bigger. And the ever present attempt to politicize guns.

Makes we wonder if we have our own NRA currently hidden somewhere or an influence from south of our border.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/gun-crime-goodale-canada-1.4585097


This shocked me yesterday - was not sure whether to post it as relevant here or not.

American authorities say a 14-year-old girl in Brantford, Ont., has been charged with threatening a high school in New Hampshire.

Police in Hanover, N.H., say they learned about an Instagram post early Tuesday morning that threatened Hanover High School and mentioned a shooting.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/brantford-threat-hanover-1.4586703

We can't let apathy over guns set in here - we need to learn from the US, not copy it. Jmo.

 

[Blef]

Canada seems unable to come to grips with the level our gun problem. Looks to be the same arguments on both sides here as well - one side downplays an increase in violence, the other side sees an increase that need not get bigger. And the ever present attempt to politicize guns.

Makes we wonder if we have our own NRA currently hidden somewhere or an influence from south of our border.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/gun-crime-goodale-canada-1.4585097


This shocked me yesterday - was not sure whether to post it as relevant here or not.

American authorities say a 14-year-old girl in Brantford, Ont., has been charged with threatening a high school in New Hampshire.

Police in Hanover, N.H., say they learned about an Instagram post early Tuesday morning that threatened Hanover High School and mentioned a shooting.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/brantford-threat-hanover-1.4586703

We can't let apathy over guns set in here - we need to learn from the US, not copy it. Jmo.

Yup. However Canada are working to tackle the gun problems here. They just announced yesterday that they are trying to introduce stricter gun control measures than we already have. They have had arms amnesties, at least here in Halifax, NS they have. People don't have the same attitude about guns in Canada as they do in the US as far as I can tell. While gun crime is a problem, it's not on the same level. I really hope Canada doesn't look to the US as an example for gun ownership.

 

[Blef]

Canada seems unable to come to grips with the level our gun problem. Looks to be the same arguments on both sides here as well - one side downplays an increase in violence, the other side sees an increase that need not get bigger. And the ever present attempt to politicize guns.

Makes we wonder if we have our own NRA currently hidden somewhere or an influence from south of our border.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/gun-crime-goodale-canada-1.4585097


This shocked me yesterday - was not sure whether to post it as relevant here or not.

American authorities say a 14-year-old girl in Brantford, Ont., has been charged with threatening a high school in New Hampshire.

Police in Hanover, N.H., say they learned about an Instagram post early Tuesday morning that threatened Hanover High School and mentioned a shooting.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/brantford-threat-hanover-1.4586703

We can't let apathy over guns set in here - we need to learn from the US, not copy it. Jmo.

That article does say that the stats are not reliable as they picked a baseline that could only look misleading.

"That's because 2013 saw Canada's lowest rate of criminal homicides in 50 years, and the lowest rate of fatal shootings ever recorded by Statistics Canada.In 2013, Canadians killed each other at the lowest rate since 1966 — 30 per cent below the average of the previous three decades. Statistics Canada's homicide report for 2013 clearly identifies it as a record-breaking year."To be worth much, a report based on sampling must use a representative sample," wrote Huff.But 2013 does not represent any kind of Canadian norm. Choosing it as a baseline could be seen as an example of what statisticians call "selection bias.""They obviously picked the one year where it was lowest, so as to maximize the impact, the one year to make the change look most drastic, essentially," said Pierre-Jérôme Bergeron, who teaches statistics at the Department of Mathematics and Statistics at the University of Ottawa."

 

[Woodland]

That article does say that the stats are not reliable as they picked a baseline that could only look misleading.

"That's because 2013 saw Canada's lowest rate of criminal homicides in 50 years, and the lowest rate of fatal shootings ever recorded by Statistics Canada.In 2013, Canadians killed each other at the lowest rate since 1966 — 30 per cent below the average of the previous three decades. Statistics Canada's homicide report for 2013 clearly identifies it as a record-breaking year."To be worth much, a report based on sampling must use a representative sample," wrote Huff.But 2013 does not represent any kind of Canadian norm. Choosing it as a baseline could be seen as an example of what statisticians call "selection bias.""They obviously picked the one year where it was lowest, so as to maximize the impact, the one year to make the change look most drastic, essentially," said Pierre-Jérôme Bergeron, who teaches statistics at the Department of Mathematics and Statistics at the University of Ottawa."

I found I didn't care what baseline was or wasn't used - Canada has an increase in gun violence that we need to tackle and imo we have more guns around that we don't need. The purpose is highly suspicious imo unless reports of more hunting accompanies the reports of any gun purchase increase.

Hoping the new measures in Canada will work as a way to prevent the laid back attitude towards gun ownership from creeping in and make the owners completely responsible for how their guns are used. That's the best anyone can have imo.

 

[Blef]

March for Our Lives is happening across the US on Saturday, organised by students including some from Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School. Good for those kids. They are standing up and letting their voices be heard.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/21/us/march-for-our-lives-explainer/index.html

 

[Jax49]

Analysis: Will current leaders believe gun lobby fiction or the truth of youth?

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/anal...n-lobby-fiction-truth-youth/story?id=53950802

In nearly every major political or social movement in the last 100 years, we have seen the youngest generation provide the enthusiasm and energy to accomplish required change.

Universal background checks with integrated databases, limiting gun sales to only adults over 21, banning bump stocks, banning high capacity magazines, and having much stricter requirements for buying semi-automatic assault rifles also seem to have broad support.

 

[Woodland]

Analysis: Will current leaders believe gun lobby fiction or the truth of youth?

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/anal...n-lobby-fiction-truth-youth/story?id=53950802

From the link -

Enter the Parkland high school students, the youngest generation, walkouts at high schools, and now the March for Our Lives rally being held in Washington, DC and around America.

We are seeing a new generation, being counseled and encouraged by the older generations, to raise their voices on this issue like never before.

It may take months and years of their actions, but I don’t see them backing down until policies are put in place in Washington, DC, in states across America, and in the communities where they live.

...

The question on the table: will the current leaders understand the power and import of this movement and do something now, or will they have to lose elections before they understand they believed a myth, and couldn’t accept the reality given voice by today’s youngest generation?

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/anal...n-lobby-fiction-truth-youth/story?id=53950802

I'm rooting for these kids - I think they can do what needs to be done.

 

[flourish]

Ah no.

What I am saying is:

It should be very hard to play the mental illness card if someone premeditates shooting up a school.

MOO

What, precisely, @MaryG12, is "the mental health card?"

 

[Karinna]

What, precisely, @MaryG12, is "the mental health card?"

Doesn't "playing the mental health card" mean using mental illness as an excuse or reason for doing something?

 

[Karinna]

I was actually surprised to learn that there are millions of guns out there in America, but it is really only a minority of the population that own guns.
(quote)
There are by various estimates anywhere from 270 million to 310 million guns in the United States — close to one firearm for every man, woman and child. But in point of fact, only a minority of Americans own guns.

Gun ownership is one of the hardest things for researchers to pin down (as the Pew Research Center’s Michael Dimock, among others, discusses here). A Pew Research Center survey conducted in February found that 37% of households had an adult who owned a gun — 24% said they owned a gun, and 13% said someone else in their household did.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...ricans-own-guns-but-just-how-many-is-unclear/

 

[flourish]

Doesn't "playing the mental health card" mean using mental illness as an excuse or reason for doing something?

That's what I thought--it connotes a dishonest exploitative excuse so I guess I was just wondering how it's ascertained that someone is playing a _____ card versus having a characteristic. What's the defining factors or symptoms to definitively declare a card has been played, and what's the appropriate response?


ETA well perhaps more disingenuous than dishonest

 

[Woodland]

I was actually surprised to learn that there are millions of guns out there in America, but it is really only a minority of the population that own guns.
(quote)
There are by various estimates anywhere from 270 million to 310 million guns in the United States — close to one firearm for every man, woman and child. But in point of fact, only a minority of Americans own guns.

Gun ownership is one of the hardest things for researchers to pin down (as the Pew Research Center’s Michael Dimock, among others, discusses here). A Pew Research Center survey conducted in February found that 37% of households had an adult who owned a gun — 24% said they owned a gun, and 13% said someone else in their household did.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...ricans-own-guns-but-just-how-many-is-unclear/

These are somewhat weird stats imo. Not doubting them, just also surprised if in fact accurate.

I googled 'us adult population' and some numbers come up quickly and are right there to see - no need to go looking through a website.

According to the US Census Bureau, the population of the US in 2010 was almost 309 million (exact number is easy to view with the simple search) with an estimated 5.5% increase to 2017, bringing that to roughly 326 million.

In 2010 the population over age 18 was 76% - that translates to an estimated 248 million in 2017. One third of that would be 92 million people over age 18 who are estimated to own 300 or so million guns between them.

What I find weird is that the US doesn't really know how many guns are in the country or who exactly owns them. What is known is that the US owns roughly half of the guns worldwide.

So, some portion of 92 million people are causing/responsible for the current carnage and mayhem? The estimates would put 3 guns each in their hands - some would have a dozen, while others wold have 1 or 2.

That's a hostage situation imo, brought on by the now very skewed 'it's my right' to have a gun and lacking the responsibility that should go with that ownership. I like the wording used in the article liked in post #108 - 'they believed a myth'. I find that very accurate. Jmo.

 

[ohreally]

Sorry, posted on wrong thread.

 

[bluesneakers]

What, precisely, @MaryG12, is "the mental health card?"

To me it means someone thinks with mental illnesses might be faking it, or conveniently do whatever they want and pretend mental illness made them do it. It shows a lack of understanding about what mental illness is and how it affects peoples' lives. It trivializes very real issues people deal with. JMO

 

[CARIIS]

Awesome set of gun graphs charts and stuff !

Very informative

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41488081

 

[bluesneakers]

Awesome set of gun graphs charts and stuff !

Very informative

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41488081

We can do better.

https://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624...ion/_98137800_gun_people_killed_v2_640-nc.png

 

[bluesneakers]

Wounds From Military-Style Rifles? ‘A Ghastly Thing to See’

Assault rifle v low energy bullet.

 

[Blef]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/organizers-gun-control-rallies-match-for-our-lives-protest-1.4591504

This warms my heart. Bless these kids.