Hailey Dunn General Discussion #1

[Knox]

There are some moms who, although innocent, do nothing to help.

Like who?

 

[For The Kids]

Like who?

From what I have seen Billie does nothing but run off people who want to help and do anything For Hailey.

 

[Tugela]

That the kids might have been exposed to Billie and Shawn's home made , which was stored on the XBOX. I do not believe he indicated that any downloaded at all, much less child , was on it.

I don't believe that information came from LE. Remember, LE did a search of the grandmothers house for CP a few months on, and they cited the devices that contained of some sort. There was no CP in BD's house, and some suspected CP in the deleted space of the computer at the mothers house. An earlier cursory examination of the computer at the grandmothers house yielded a single non pornographic image similar some of the images on the mothers computer.

Unfortunately the link to the search warrant in the sticked section of the HD section here no longer works, so I can't see exactly what they said.

However, Knox summarized the items known to have on them [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132907"]here[/ame]. You will notice there is no mention of the X-box as containing anything like that. So, where did this Mac guy come up with the information that it did? I suspect that he is reporting back on rumours rather than facts.

 

[Tugela]

The original MISSING posters said "red earrings" NOT "red gauges". For all Clint or Naomi may have known, she had removed the red gauges at their house, but was wearing a different set of red earrings when she went missing (since they knew she could not have had the gauges in since they had the one, and the other was lost when Hailey removed them on Christmas).

That seems like a pretty weak argument to me. Basically you are saying that they figured oh well, she probably has some other red earrings, not the ones she left here, so we just won't say anything about them.

I would have thought that if she left red earrings at the house the day before, it would be natural to assume that those were the earrings being discussed.

 

[Tugela]

I cant help but think that anyone with sufficient knowledge of HDS social life would have known that there were other friends that Hailey was more likely to have stopped with than MB seeing as she had never once before even stopped at MBS and theres nothing to suggest that they was particularly friendly anyhow. As someone else has said (LisaB?) the text message doesnt even make sense because there was no reply to the text so why would she have gone there ( thats discounting the fact that no plans had been made to do so). The thing that confuses me is when your saying SA,BD, HD, DD or CD had to have sent this text. In all honesty im not sure why that is? Firstly LE certainly havent said they believe they believe that Hailey sent that text. Actually has it been confirmed by LE that DD couldnt have sent that text firstly? and secondly you have no way of knowing if anyone else didnt send the text ie someone at the house that we dont know about.

When you text some the message "where are you?", it doesn't mean a random out of the blue factual question asking where you happen to be at that point. It is a question that is asked when you have arranged to meet someone at a specific place before heading out, and they don't show up on time.

The plan to meet was probably made the previous day, perhaps by phone but more likely verbally. So there would be no tracks left behind for someone else to follow.

Whoever sent the message would have to know the following:

1) be able to access the house where the phone was
2) be aware of where exactly the phone was in the house
3) be aware that that was the phone HD normally used
4) know the password for the phone (if it had one)
5) be aware that HD had enough of a relationship with MB for it to be plausible that she would send such a message
6) Know MB's number

There are a limited number of people who would know that sort of information. Probably about the number of fingers you have on your hand. Which is why I think it 99% likely that HD herself sent the message.

Then there is question of why MB did not respond. So:

A) If she was friendly with HD, why would she not have responded with a question or answer of her own?
B) If she was not friendly with HD, why would she not have immediately thought it wierd to have recieved such a message?

So, this is what I find strange, both the implicit meaning of the message, and the lack of an answer.

Incidently, I don't think HD ever intended to spend the night with MB, that is simply what she told SA. She may have intended to meet with MB, presumably for some unknown reason, and then after she left the house perhaps had gone to MB's house looking for her (presumably not finding her). Then, IMO, she proceeded to go wherever to was that she really intended to go to, and never came back. There is a reasonable scenario that fits the facts up until she left the house, but after that it is a blank book.

That is pretty much how I interpret everything we know so far. If we can figure out where HD was going and why she was going there, we will be able to make significant headway in this case. IMO people know stuff, and, for whatever reason (my guess: they are kinda close, but don't want to get involved in the mess), are choosing not to share what they know.

 

[For The Kids]

I don't believe that information came from LE. Remember, LE did a search of the grandmothers house for CP a few months on, and they cited the devices that contained of some sort. There was no CP in BD's house, and some suspected CP in the deleted space of the computer at the mothers house. An earlier cursory examination of the computer at the grandmothers house yielded a single non pornographic image similar some of the images on the mothers computer.

Unfortunately the link to the search warrant in the sticked section of the HD section here no longer works, so I can't see exactly what they said.

However, Knox summarized the items known to have on them here. You will notice there is no mention of the X-box as containing anything like that. So, where did this Mac guy come up with the information that it did? I suspect that he is reporting back on rumours rather than facts.

Mac works with LE

 

[For The Kids]

That is pretty much how I interpret everything we know so far. If we can figure out where HD was going and why she was going there, we will be able to make significant headway in this case. IMO people know stuff, and, for whatever reason (my guess: they are kinda close, but don't want to get involved in the mess), are choosing not to share what they know.

If we interpret everything we know so far i dont see anything that suggests that Hailey was alive on the Monday to send any text messages or to go and meet anyone. From info that is out there in fact it would show that she want alive by then at all

 

[mkay882]

Like who?

Like Billie, after the initial flurry of 'looking', HaLeigh Cummings mother went back to sitting on the couch.
We hear nothing from that side of HaLeigh's family.

 

[katydid23]

When you text some the message "where are you?", it doesn't mean a random out of the blue factual question asking where you happen to be at that point. It is a question that is asked when you have arranged to meet someone at a specific place before heading out, and they don't show up on time.

The plan to meet was probably made the previous day, perhaps by phone but more likely verbally. So there would be no tracks left behind for someone else to follow.

Whoever sent the message would have to know the following:

1) be able to access the house where the phone was
2) be aware of where exactly the phone was in the house
3) be aware that that was the phone HD normally used
4) know the password for the phone (if it had one)
5) be aware that HD had enough of a relationship with MB for it to be plausible that she would send such a message
6) Know MB's number

There are a limited number of people who would know that sort of information. Probably about the number of fingers you have on your hand. Which is why I think it 99% likely that HD herself sent the message.

Then there is question of why MB did not respond. So:

A) If she was friendly with HD, why would she not have responded with a question or answer of her own?
B) If she was not friendly with HD, why would she not have immediately thought it wierd to have recieved such a message?

So, this is what I find strange, both the implicit meaning of the message, and the lack of an answer.

Incidently, I don't think HD ever intended to spend the night with MB, that is simply what she told SA. She may have intended to meet with MB, presumably for some unknown reason, and then after she left the house perhaps had gone to MB's house looking for her (presumably not finding her). Then, IMO, she proceeded to go wherever to was that she really intended to go to, and never came back. There is a reasonable scenario that fits the facts up until she left the house, but after that it is a blank book.

That is pretty much how I interpret everything we know so far. If we can figure out where HD was going and why she was going there, we will be able to make significant headway in this case. IMO people know stuff, and, for whatever reason (my guess: they are kinda close, but don't want to get involved in the mess), are choosing not to share what they know.

]Whoever sent the message would have to know the following:

1) be able to access the house where the phone was[ SA COULD]
2) be aware of where exactly the phone was in the house[SA WOULD KNOW]
3) be aware that that was the phone HD normally used[SA WOULD KNOW THAT]
4) know the password for the phone (if it had one)[ SA WOULD KNOW IT]
5) be aware that HD had enough of a relationship with MB for it to be plausible that she would send such a message[ SA WOULD KNOW ]
6) Know MB's number[ IT WOULD BE IN THE PHONE]

 

[LisaB]

I don't think BD would be happy either way with becoming a GrandMother as I think she tries so incredibly hard to look like a teen versus the nearly 40 year old that she is.

My daughter was born when I was 28. My mom had me when she was 32. This made her SIXTY when her first grandchild came. She wanted nothing to do with my daughter because it made her uncomfortable to be a grandmother. She felt she was "too young" for that. She was in her 70s when my sister started having children, and now she says she is too old to keep up with them. *LOL*

 

[LisaB]

That seems like a pretty weak argument to me. Basically you are saying that they figured oh well, she probably has some other red earrings, not the ones she left here, so we just won't say anything about them.

I would have thought that if she left red earrings at the house the day before, it would be natural to assume that those were the earrings being discussed.

I would expect them to know she was not wearing the earrings she left at their home. But if she was partial to red, it might not be so crazy to think she'd worn another set of regular red earrings after taking out the gauges.

 

[LisaB]

When you text some the message "where are you?", it doesn't mean a random out of the blue factual question asking where you happen to be at that point. It is a question that is asked when you have arranged to meet someone at a specific place before heading out, and they don't show up on time.~SNIP~

I agree that "where are you?" suggests that the recipient of the message is not where the sender expected them to be, although there would be other reasons for asking that (I often ask my daughter where she is to see if she can pick something up for me if she is out). But the general consensus is that the message was "What are you doing?" which is entirely different. To me it does not imply there were pre-existing plans, it sounds more like an attempt to MAKE plans.

 

[Donjeta]

Whoever sent the message would have to know the following:

1) be able to access the house where the phone was
2) be aware of where exactly the phone was in the house
3) be aware that that was the phone HD normally used
4) know the password for the phone (if it had one)
5) be aware that HD had enough of a relationship with MB for it to be plausible that she would send such a message
6) Know MB's number


.

If the phone was at home it would pretty much narrow it down to everybody who had access to the home. Everybody who lived there or visited regularly would probably know or be able to find out imo.

The location of a phone inside a house would be pretty simple to figure out usually. In my experience phones are usually kept somewhere easily visible and not hidden somewhere that's difficult to find. At our home there are a few tables or shelves that are likely locations, then the counter in the kitchen where the chargers are. Failing that, check the bags used and the pockets of the usual coats worn by the phone owner. Failing that, call the phone and locate it by the ring tone. Not rocket science exactly.

Then if you've got the phone you've got the access to the list of numbers and the texts and phone call history, maybe Facebook or Twitter ( I don't remember if HD was on those) and you could find someone called MB there and figure out that Hailey knows this person and decide to pick that number to send a text.

If Hailey had her phone with her when the person did whatever to her you wouldn't even need to have access to the house I think. Do the pings show the text was sent from the house? Not sure how precise it is but I think texts sent from the street near the house would look pretty much the same in a ping chart. That's what I remember from the Lisa Irwin case anyway, they pinpointed the phone location to an area in the neighborhood but couldn't say for sure which house etc.

 

[For The Kids]

Like Billie, after the initial flurry of 'looking', HaLeigh Cummings mother went back to sitting on the couch.
We hear nothing from that side of HaLeigh's family.

Admittedly I have not followed that case in a long time but the situation was totally different. Crystal was not remotely implicated her daughters disappearance and as far as I know has fully cooperated in the investigation. She took the little boy away which was in her favour and she did at least seem genuinely distraught that her daughter was missing.

 

[Knox]

When you text some the message "where are you?", it doesn't mean a random out of the blue factual question asking where you happen to be at that point. It is a question that is asked when you have arranged to meet someone at a specific place before heading out, and they don't show up on time.

The plan to meet was probably made the previous day, perhaps by phone but more likely verbally. So there would be no tracks left behind for someone else to follow.

Whoever sent the message would have to know the following:

1) be able to access the house where the phone was
2) be aware of where exactly the phone was in the house
3) be aware that that was the phone HD normally used
4) know the password for the phone (if it had one)
5) be aware that HD had enough of a relationship with MB for it to be plausible that she would send such a message
6) Know MB's number

There are a limited number of people who would know that sort of information. Probably about the number of fingers you have on your hand. Which is why I think it 99% likely that HD herself sent the message.

Then there is question of why MB did not respond. So:

A) If she was friendly with HD, why would she not have responded with a question or answer of her own?
B) If she was not friendly with HD, why would she not have immediately thought it wierd to have recieved such a message?

So, this is what I find strange, both the implicit meaning of the message, and the lack of an answer.

Incidently, I don't think HD ever intended to spend the night with MB, that is simply what she told SA. She may have intended to meet with MB, presumably for some unknown reason, and then after she left the house perhaps had gone to MB's house looking for her (presumably not finding her). Then, IMO, she proceeded to go wherever to was that she really intended to go to, and never came back. There is a reasonable scenario that fits the facts up until she left the house, but after that it is a blank book.

That is pretty much how I interpret everything we know so far. If we can figure out where HD was going and why she was going there, we will be able to make significant headway in this case. IMO people know stuff, and, for whatever reason (my guess: they are kinda close, but don't want to get involved in the mess), are choosing not to share what they know.

Except the text said "What R U Doing", not "Where are You".

What plan to meet? I don't recall that being said anywhere?

 

[Tugela]

Except the text said "What R U Doing", not "Where are You".

What plan to meet? I don't recall that being said anywhere?

It would seem you are correct. My recollection was that the message was "Wt r u", but I can't find any reference to that specifically, just the long form.

One more thing, going through various posts and articles:

1) The text was done at 2.16 or 2.18 PM (there seems to be a little confusion there).
2) BD was vague about it, it sounded like the first she heard about it was from LE, which probably means the message was not on her phone any more.
3) LE did not say what the message was or give any details about it other than to say it existed (from Kaempfer). The information we know apparently came from MB's mother in interviews.

I had thought maybe it was just another one of BD's stories, but the information didn't come from her, it seems it came from LE and MB's mom.

 

[kirby]

It would seem you are correct. My recollection was that the message was "Wt r u", but I can't find any reference to that specifically, just the long form.

One more thing, going through various posts and articles:

1) The text was done at 2.16 or 2.18 PM (there seems to be a little confusion there).
2) BD was vague about it, it sounded like the first she heard about it was from LE, which probably means the message was not on her phone any more.
3) LE did not say what the message was or give any details about it other than to say it existed (from Kaempfer). The information we know apparently came from MB's mother in interviews.

I had thought maybe it was just another one of BD's stories, but the information didn't come from her, it seems it came from LE and MB's mom.

Billie also says the first time she heard about the Shawns private parts pictures sent to Cg was when Le showed them to her. Now we know that's not true, either.

 

[Knox]

Where did we learn about the text message pinging in C City?

 

[Tugela]

Where did we learn about the text message pinging in C City?

We didn't. LE wouldn't comment on anything other than that they were aware of the message and investigating it.

 

[For The Kids]

Billie also says the first time she heard about the Shawns private parts pictures sent to Cg was when Le showed them to her. Now we know that's not true, either.

Kirby I honestly think those photos are what kicked off whatever happened that Sunday night. Sunday night is the one thing she wont talk about unless pressed and even then she dramatically changes her story.