Head blow vs strangulation

[Solace]

The force of the blow caused an eight-inch fracture reaching all the way to the orbital region.

That is one ferocious blow to the head. Patsy's state of mind caused the blow to JonBenet's head. The crack heard by Patsy put her into self-preservation mode, hence the staging.

The temporal lobe bruising is a mystery in that did Patsy shake JonBenet before striking her or was the bruising after-the-fact?

Right Toltec, the temporal lobe bruising is Patsy in panic mode big time. She heard the crack and it was loud and she said, Oh God, what did I do, wake up JonBenet, and proceeded to shake her violently to no avail. I think it was one blow and it came from a violent push by Patsy. This is a tiny child. It could happen.

 

[Ames]

The skull fracture was a continuous 8.5 inches. It would be impossible for anyone to add another few inches or so onto an already existing skull fracture to make it longer, even if there was an x-ray machine in the home.

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-Tea

Well, if thats the case...then IMO...the flashlight wasn't used for anything, but to throw the investigators off, when it was purposely left on the counter.

 

[Ames]

The force of the blow caused an eight-inch fracture reaching all the way to the orbital region.

That is one ferocious blow to the head. Patsy's state of mind caused the blow to JonBenet's head. The crack heard by Patsy put her into self-preservation mode, hence the staging.

The temporal lobe bruising is a mystery in that did Patsy shake JonBenet before striking her or was the bruising after-the-fact?

I had thought that maybe the flashlight was used to hit her after she was dead, as part of the staging. But, I have changed my mind about that...I do not believe the flashlight played any sort of role at all in the murder...it was just a prop left out on purpose, and wiped clean of prints by the Ramsey's...to make it look like an intruder had left it. I believe thats the only purpose that it served.

 

[Ames]

Why not? The injury is starting below her ear where there is a rectangular piece missing, this is where the blow originated and if I am correct the rest of the split stems from this blow. It is not a separate split in another part of the head, it is a continuation from this blow. I think she fell and it was a severe crack and it then split the rest of her skull. Geez.

Yep, and she was only six...her skull was probably not as thick as it would have been if she had of lived to be an adult. So, IMO..it was probably not THAT hard to crack. Especially if she had been thrown into the side of a sink, or tub. I am sure, just like you said...that when her head made contact with the sink or tub...this is when the rectangular piece broke off...and then the split started from there. Just like when you crack a windshield.....you have the initial hole where a rock hits...and then cracks start to form from that hole. Just like her skull did....

 

[icedtea4me]

Yep, and she was only six...her skull was probably not as thick as it would have been if she had of lived to be an adult. So, IMO..it was probably not THAT hard to crack. Especially if she had been thrown into the side of a sink, or tub. I am sure, just like you said...that when her head made contact with the sink or tub...this is when the rectangular piece broke off...and then the split started from there. Just like when you crack a windshield.....you have the initial hole where a rock hits...and then cracks start to form from that hole. Just like her skull did....

The side of a sink or tub is a flat surface. What protuberance from either one would cause the displacement of a 1/2" x 1 3/4" piece of skull?


-Tea

 

[Ames]

The side of a sink or tub is a flat surface. What protuberance from either one would cause the displacement of a 1/2" x 1 3/4" piece of skull?


-Tea

The actual SIDE is flat...but both are usually rounded at the top (the part that you have to step over to get into it for the tub, and the part that dips down to make the sink). My guess is that it was the tub, and not the sink. And I have seen tubs that are actually squared off....they go straight up from the floor, then instead of curve inward..and then down, to form the actual place where you sit...they are squared off...with sharp edges...some garden tubs are like that, like a box. I don't know what type of tubs the Ramsey's had in their house....but, the part that JB's head hit....imo...was the TOP of the tub..the part that you have to step over to get inside of it....and they are either rounded...or have sharp corners (squared off like a box)...which...imo..is an accident waiting to happen for anyone that owns one like that. Very dangerous!! And imo...that sharp (or rounded) edge...could have displaced part of her skull.

 

[JMO8778]

I'll have to agree to disagree about the flashlight..since1- Dr Spitz thinks it was the murder weapon,2-it fits the head wound perfectly,with no room to spare where the hole in her head was and 3-it was wiped clean,inside n out,and 4-it was left out so as to not appear to be theirs.too much of a coincidence for me.(maybe there was no where to hide it,like with the other items.it would be too difficult).
PR could have grabbed it off the counter,where JR left it,or from the drawer on the way to bed,and stopped in to ck on JB...and things happened from there.Then later she wiped it down and put it back where she found it,after using it around the house to avoid turning on lights.

 

[Ames]

I'll have to agree to disagree about the flashlight..since1- Dr Spitz thinks it was the murder weapon,2-it fits the head wound perfectly,with no room to spare where the hole in her head was and 3-it was wiped clean,inside n out,and 4-it was left out so as to not appear to be theirs.too much of a coincidence for me.(maybe there was no where to hide it,like with the other items.it would be too difficult).
PR could have grabbed it off the counter,where JR left it,or from the drawer on the way to bed,and stopped in to ck on JB...and things happened from there.Then later she wiped it down and put it back where she found it,after using it around the house to avoid turning on lights.

Maybe I need to think outside the box more, though. One of my theories....I have two of them...is that because JB's hair was sectioned off when her body was found...and IF the flashlight was the murder weapon....that Patsy could have had JB in the kitchen...eating pineapple...before dying her hair, for the trip they had the next day. An argument broke out, probably because JB was tired and didn't feel like having her hair done...and the flashlight was right there on the counter...where Patsy could have had JB sitting...so that she could have sat her hair dying supplies on the counter top, and they could have been close by. That is the only scenario with the flashlight that makes any sense to me. My mom cracked me in the head with a big round hairbrush (obviously not hard enough to kill me), because she was doing my hair, when I was little..and I wouldn't sit still. So, maybe THAT is what happened.

 

[Dru]

...I've always wondered about those darned spiral stairs.

They're probably the wrong size and shape and everything, but if the blow to JBR's head really did start around her ear, is there any way that the killer could have slammed her into the edge of one of those stairs, particularly the more narrow/triangular edge?

This has probably been discussed and refuted hundreds of times, but I'd appreciate any info on this, 'cause frankly that staircase is odd.

 

[coloradokares]

The side of a sink or tub is a flat surface. What protuberance from either one would cause the displacement of a 1/2" x 1 3/4" piece of skull?


-Tea

The bathtub spigot or faucet? The part the water comes out. Our Tub is Jacuzzi so its different than the normal faucetry on normal bathtub. But I can see our Roman Tub faucety making that exact type of hole in a skull much like the flashlight could have.

 

[tumble]

Maybe I need to think outside the box more, though. One of my theories....I have two of them...is that because JB's hair was sectioned off when her body was found...and IF the flashlight was the murder weapon....that Patsy could have had JB in the kitchen...eating pineapple...before dying her hair, for the trip they had the next day. An argument broke out, probably because JB was tired and didn't feel like having her hair done...and the flashlight was right there on the counter...where Patsy could have had JB sitting...so that she could have sat her hair dying supplies on the counter top, and they could have been close by. That is the only scenario with the flashlight that makes any sense to me. My mom cracked me in the head with a big round hairbrush (obviously not hard enough to kill me), because she was doing my hair, when I was little..and I wouldn't sit still. So, maybe THAT is what happened.

JB was known to be afraid of the dark. She used to keep a flashlight by her bed to be able to disband the "monsters". No flashlight was found by her bed in the morning. One scenario could be that JB woke up, got the flashlight lit and somehow ended up snacking pineapple in the kitchen with the flashlight close by.

But I like your theory about the hair dying. The police noticed a strange smell in the bathroom that morning. A smell from peroxide used in hairdying chemicals. Maybe the hairdying started in the bathroom and they needed to break because JB was feeling too hungry. Tension started to build up in the bathroom and with time running short PR may not have been too calm down there in the kitchen.

 

[Solace]

Maybe I need to think outside the box more, though. One of my theories....I have two of them...is that because JB's hair was sectioned off when her body was found...and IF the flashlight was the murder weapon....that Patsy could have had JB in the kitchen...eating pineapple...before dying her hair, for the trip they had the next day. An argument broke out, probably because JB was tired and didn't feel like having her hair done...and the flashlight was right there on the counter...where Patsy could have had JB sitting...so that she could have sat her hair dying supplies on the counter top, and they could have been close by. That is the only scenario with the flashlight that makes any sense to me. My mom cracked me in the head with a big round hairbrush (obviously not hard enough to kill me), because she was doing my hair, when I was little..and I wouldn't sit still. So, maybe THAT is what happened.

You make me laugh, but that is terrible. I just really believe the flashlight is for staging purposes and the reason is that everything is wiped off including the batteries. I believe they wanted the police to think someone wiped the flashlight down. Patsy had to have heard a very loud crack. God, she had to be really flinging her around.

 

[Solace]

JB was known to be afraid of the dark. She used to keep a flashlight by her bed to be able to disband the "monsters". No flashlight was found by her bed in the morning. One scenario could be that JB woke up, got the flashlight lit and somehow ended up snacking pineapple in the kitchen with the flashlight close by.

But I like your theory about the hair dying. The police noticed a strange smell in the bathroom that morning. A smell from peroxide used in hairdying chemicals. Maybe the hairdying started in the bathroom and they needed to break because JB was feeling too hungry. Tension started to build up in the bathroom and with time running short PR may not have been too calm down there in the kitchen.

Tumble, this is a huge flashlight. Almost as big as JB.

Also, Patsy said she dyed her hair that afternoon. JonBenet's hair did not look that blond in the autopsy pictures. She had graduated to almost platinum colored hair.

 

[Ames]

You make me laugh, but that is terrible. I just really believe the flashlight is for staging purposes and the reason is that everything is wiped off including the batteries. I believe they wanted the police to think someone wiped the flashlight down. Patsy had to have heard a very loud crack. God, she had to be really flinging her around.

I know...that was my SECOND theory....my first theory is the same as yours. I was just trying to make sense of why the flashlight fit perfectly into the head wound...as posted by another poster here. I really had never heard that before.

 

[Ames]

Tumble, this is a huge flashlight. Almost as big as JB.

Also, Patsy said she dyed her hair that afternoon. JonBenet's hair did not look that blond in the autopsy pictures. She had graduated to almost platinum colored hair.

And in the autopsy photo...she had dark roots in the back...but, not in the front.

 

[Solace]

I know...that was my SECOND theory....my first theory is the same as yours. I was just trying to make sense of why the flashlight fit perfectly into the head wound...as posted by another poster here. I really had never heard that before.

I hear ya! This case can drive you crazy. The flashlight supposedly does fit perfectly. I just cannot see Patsy taking the flashlight and hitting her over the head. I can see her throwing her and not realizing how hard she was doing it. But to actually pick up a huge flashlight and hit a 40 pound child with it, is pretty incredible to me. What is she going to say John, I made a mistake and hit JB with the flashlight. I think she said John she slipped and hit her head and I think it was my fault but it was not intentional. And I could see him help her with that scenario. Helping her after she hit his child over the head with a flashlight is hard to swallow, BUT IT DOES FIT PERFECTLY.

I know she is involved, just because she did not come running when Fleet said call an ambulance. I just want to know what happened. Maybe it is just a fluke that the flashlight could fit perfectly. Any other forensics say this. Not disbelieving it, just asking questions.

 

[Ames]

I hear ya! This case can drive you crazy. The flashlight supposedly does fit perfectly. I just cannot see Patsy taking the flashlight and hitting her over the head. I can see her throwing her and not realizing how hard she was doing it. But to actually pick up a huge flashlight and hit a 40 pound child with it, is pretty incredible to me. What is she going to say John, I made a mistake and hit JB with the flashlight. I think she said John she slipped and hit her head and I think it was my fault but it was not intentional. And I could see him help her with that scenario. Helping her after she hit his child over the head with a flashlight is hard to swallow, BUT IT DOES FIT PERFECTLY.

I know she is involved, just because she did not come running when Fleet said call an ambulance. I just want to know what happened. Maybe it is just a fluke that the flashlight could fit perfectly. Any other forensics say this. Not disbelieving it, just asking questions.

Yeah, I wondered that too. And I do see your point about her hitting JB on the head HARD ENOUGH TO KILL HER...and displace the bone in her skull....and then trying to explain that to John. I couldn't see him defending Patsy or lying for her if that was the case. BUT..if she said that she had gotten upset with JB and flew into an anger/alcohol/Xanax induced rage....and didn't intend to do JB any REAL harm....I could see JOHN helping her stage a crime scene. She convinced JOHN that it was an accident....I do believe. YEP...this case just drives me NUTS!!

 

[Solace]

Yeah, I wondered that too. And I do see your point about her hitting JB on the head HARD ENOUGH TO KILL HER...and displace the bone in her skull....and then trying to explain that to John. I couldn't see him defending Patsy or lying for her if that was the case. BUT..if she said that she had gotten upset with JB and flew into an anger/alcohol/Xanax induced rage....and didn't intend to do JB any REAL harm....I could see JOHN helping her stage a crime scene. She convinced JOHN that it was an accident....I do believe. YEP...this case just drives me NUTS!!

Steve Thomas says the during the breaks of the interviews, Patsy smoked nonstop. She was very nervous according to him.

 

[Veronica10]

Just a few thoughts regarding some topics here:

1. I always found it very odd that Patsy would be dyeing her own hair. A very wealthy woman usually does not dye her own hair. I just can't see her doing that. The home dyeing would have to be for JB because no salon would bleach a 6 year old's hair. And JB's hair dyeing was a secret that no one was supposed to know about.

2. Also, my theory, JB was smashed over the head with the flashlight, I think the pattern matches to the crack in the skull. Also, if Patsy threw JB against the sink, toilet, tub, or something else, I think she would have immediately gone into damage control be saying JB slipped and fell. With the crushing blow from the flashlight, there was NO WAY you could say it was anything other than RAGE. I think Patsy eventually told JR that she did not mean to hit JB with the flashlight, just slam it against something and scare her.

 

[Solace]

Just a few thoughts regarding some topics here:

1. I always found it very odd that Patsy would be dyeing her own hair. A very wealthy woman usually does not dye her own hair. I just can't see her doing that. The home dyeing would have to be for JB because no salon would bleach a 6 year old's hair. And JB's hair dyeing was a secret that no one was supposed to know about.

2. Also, my theory, JB was smashed over the head with the flashlight, I think the pattern matches to the crack in the skull. Also, if Patsy threw JB against the sink, toilet, tub, or something else, I think she would have immediately gone into damage control be saying JB slipped and fell. With the crushing blow from the flashlight, there was NO WAY you could say it was anything other than RAGE. I think Patsy eventually told JR that she did not mean to hit JB with the flashlight, just slam it against something and scare her.[/QUOTE]

It is definitely possible. So you think she was dying JonBenet's hair that day. The bathroom did smell like peroxide too.