Head blow vs strangulation

[Veronica10]

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It is definitely possible. So you think she was dying JonBenet's hair that day. The bathroom did smell like peroxide too.

I do...I keep going back to the weird hairstyle. JB's hair was sectioned off..I can't imagine she wore her hair that way to the White's party. And Patsy did not do her own hair...I can see her having a very expensive stylist and colorist, but not doing it herself. Especially on Xmas day as she claimed. Her hair(color) would have been done for the holidays prior to that. I think an incident may have occurred prior to the actual dyeing taking place on JB. Patsy had to get rid of the hair chemicals down the drain...I think she claimed that she dyed her own hair on Xmas day in order to explain away any forensic evidence gathered in the drains, etc.

One more time, no way did Patsy dye her own hair. I don't believe there was ever any questioning regarding which salon she went to and if she had a colorist, and when was the last time she visited.

 

[Solace]

[/QUOTE]

It is definitely possible. So you think she was dying JonBenet's hair that day. The bathroom did smell like peroxide too.

I do...I keep going back to the weird hairstyle. JB's hair was sectioned off..I can't imagine she wore her hair that way to the White's party. And Patsy did not do her own hair...I can see her having a very expensive stylist and colorist, but not doing it herself. Especially on Xmas day as she claimed. Her hair(color) would have been done for the holidays prior to that. I think an incident may have occurred prior to the actual dyeing taking place on JB. Patsy had to get rid of the hair chemicals down the drain...I think she claimed that she dyed her own hair on Xmas day in order to explain away any forensic evidence gathered in the drains, etc.

One more time, no way did Patsy dye her own hair. I don't believe there was ever any questioning regarding which salon she went to and if she had a colorist, and when was the last time she visited.

And there had just been a huge party for her which John had just thrown for her for her birthday. She would have had her hair done for that.

 

[UKGuy]

Just a few thoughts regarding some topics here:

1. I always found it very odd that Patsy would be dyeing her own hair. A very wealthy woman usually does not dye her own hair. I just can't see her doing that. The home dyeing would have to be for JB because no salon would bleach a 6 year old's hair. And JB's hair dyeing was a secret that no one was supposed to know about.

2. Also, my theory, JB was smashed over the head with the flashlight, I think the pattern matches to the crack in the skull. Also, if Patsy threw JB against the sink, toilet, tub, or something else, I think she would have immediately gone into damage control be saying JB slipped and fell. With the crushing blow from the flashlight, there was NO WAY you could say it was anything other than RAGE. I think Patsy eventually told JR that she did not mean to hit JB with the flashlight, just slam it against something and scare her.

Veronica10,

Your theory may be correct and Patsy could be responsable for JonBenet's death?

But to date I have seen no evidence to demonstrate that Patsy killed JonBenet.

The available evidence allows any of the three residents to be capable of delivering the fatal blow.

JonBenet was also whacked about the sides of her head, as well as to the top which fractured her skull.

The forensic evidence suggests to me, that this was deliberate and the skull fracturing blow was claculated to kill, why do I think that, because the force of the blow went way beyond a simple outburst of rage whack, and that it was a directed blow, unlike the blows to the sides of her head, this one was aimed in a downward manner!

If JonBenet had fallen onto some household object she would have other contusions and injuries say on her back, her neck, shoulders from where the rest of her body came in contact with whatever surrounded the household object.

I suspect JonBenet was seriously assaulted then callously finished off with the blow to the back of her head.

The reason the flashlight was left in the kitchen was to remove it from whatever location JonBenet had originally been murdered, and her killers fingerprints were wiped off the flashlight patently so no questions could ever be levelled at her killer!

Patsy may have killed JonBenet but I doubt she did it as the result of a rage attack, JonBenet's injuries are not the random type prevalent in rage attacks, her injuries are specific, and her skull fracture directed.


.

 

[Solace]

Veronica10,

Your theory may be correct and Patsy could be responsable for JonBenet's death?

But to date I have seen no evidence to demonstrate that Patsy killed JonBenet.

The available evidence allows any of the three residents to be capable of delivering the fatal blow.

JonBenet was also whacked about the sides of her head, as well as to the top which fractured her skull.

The forensic evidence suggests to me, that this was deliberate and the skull fracturing blow was claculated to kill, why do I think that, because the force of the blow went way beyond a simple outburst of rage whack, and that it was a directed blow, unlike the blows to the sides of her head, this one was aimed in a downward manner!

If JonBenet had fallen onto some household object she would have other contusions and injuries say on her back, her neck, shoulders from where the rest of her body came in contact with whatever surrounded the household object.

I suspect JonBenet was seriously assaulted then callously finished off with the blow to the back of her head.

The reason the flashlight was left in the kitchen was to remove it from whatever location JonBenet had originally been murdered, and her killers fingerprints were wiped off the flashlight patently so no questions could ever be levelled at her killer!

Patsy may have killed JonBenet but I doubt she did it as the result of a rage attack, JonBenet's injuries are not the random type prevalent in rage attacks, her injuries are specific, and her skull fracture directed.


.

UK, one way of looking at it is your way and another way is that she was shaken violently to wake her after being accidently hit and thus the bruising to the sides of her head. Also, the rectangular piece broken off of the skull is in the back of JonBenet's head. She hit that part of her head first violently and the crack resulted from it. Sorry, but this is the way it happened.

I just looked at the photos of JonBenet's skull. The splitting of the skull comes directly, directly from the rectangular piece that is missing. This is one blow. That is what it looks like to me.

 

[UKGuy]

UK, one way of looking at it is your way and another way is that she was shaken violently to wake her after being accidently hit and thus the bruising to the sides of her head. Also, the rectangular piece broken off of the skull is in the back of JonBenet's head. She hit that part of her head first violently and the crack resulted from it. Sorry, but this is the way it happened.

I just looked at the photos of JonBenet's skull. The splitting of the skull comes directly, directly from the rectangular piece that is missing. This is one blow. That is what it looks like to me.

Solace,

Yes either view is possible except from memory it was not the back of her head but the top of her head?


.

 

[Solace]

Solace,

Yes either view is possible except from memory it was not the back of her head but the top of her head?


.

My mistake. It is the front of her head, but the crack extends from it, is my point. I don't believe she was hit twice.

 

[UKGuy]

My mistake. It is the front of her head, but the crack extends from it, is my point. I don't believe she was hit twice.

Solace,

Forensic science can determine the direction of the blow by taking account of the fissures these apparently have a predetermined pattern.

This result was arrived at by examining hundreds , if not thousands, of skulls that had undergone blunt force trauma.

The research was undertaken at the Body Farm in the USofA.

That JonBenet's skull was whacked on the top suggests to me that it was a deliberate directed blow!

.

 

[Solace]

Solace,

Forensic science can determine the direction of the blow by taking account of the fissures these apparently have a predetermined pattern.

This result was arrived at by examining hundreds , if not thousands, of skulls that had undergone blunt force trauma.

The research was undertaken at the Body Farm in the USofA.

That JonBenet's skull was whacked on the top suggests to me that it was a deliberate directed blow!

.

I have no doubt that forensic science can do what you say. I agree with you. What I am disagreeing is on what happened afterwards.

Also, why could she not have hit her head full force against the bathtub when Patsy had the collar of her shirt twisted in her hand. You do not see this happening at all? Does it have to be a whack by an object as opposed to being thrust against an object?

 

[UKGuy]

I have no doubt that forensic science can do what you say. I agree with you. What I am disagreeing is on what happened afterwards.

Also, why could she not have hit her head full force against the bathtub when Patsy had the collar of her shirt twisted in her hand. You do not see this happening at all? Does it have to be a whack by an object as opposed to being thrust against an object?

Solace,

I would have to see the bathtub, and visualise which part hit JonBenet's skull.

imo it has to be a downward whack rather than a random thrust since her injuries are so specific, otherwise I would expect to see a different kind of cranial injury.


.

 

[Solace]

Solace,

I would have to see the bathtub, and visualise which part hit JonBenet's skull.

imo it has to be a downward whack rather than a random thrust since her injuries are so specific, otherwise I would expect to see a different kind of cranial injury.


.

I agree, but I think this is possible.

 

[JMO8778]

Solace,

I would have to see the bathtub, and visualise which part hit JonBenet's skull.

imo it has to be a downward whack rather than a random thrust since her injuries are so specific, otherwise I would expect to see a different kind of cranial injury.


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Ames,can you find a pic online and provide a link? I'm curious as well,as I don't quite understand what you mean.

 

[JMO8778]

Solace,

Forensic science can determine the direction of the blow by taking account of the fissures these apparently have a predetermined pattern.

This result was arrived at by examining hundreds , if not thousands, of skulls that had undergone blunt force trauma.

The research was undertaken at the Body Farm in the USofA.

That JonBenet's skull was whacked on the top suggests to me that it was a deliberate directed blow!

.

UK,was she hit from behind,was she standing or laying down at the time?
I agree that such a direct blow was deliberate,but I also think it's possible and likely that her head was thrust against some object as well.

 

[JMO8778]

Yeah, I wondered that too. And I do see your point about her hitting JB on the head HARD ENOUGH TO KILL HER...and displace the bone in her skull....and then trying to explain that to John. I couldn't see him defending Patsy or lying for her if that was the case. BUT..if she said that she had gotten upset with JB and flew into an anger/alcohol/Xanax induced rage....and didn't intend to do JB any REAL harm....I could see JOHN helping her stage a crime scene. She convinced JOHN that it was an accident....I do believe. YEP...this case just drives me NUTS!!

accident or not,I suspect JR would have covered for her anyway.He seems to be big on his reputation and wouldnt want it publicly known he married someone who could do that.

 

[JMO8778]

I hear ya! This case can drive you crazy. The flashlight supposedly does fit perfectly. I just cannot see Patsy taking the flashlight and hitting her over the head. I can see her throwing her and not realizing how hard she was doing it. But to actually pick up a huge flashlight and hit a 40 pound child with it, is pretty incredible to me. What is she going to say John, I made a mistake and hit JB with the flashlight. I think she said John she slipped and hit her head and I think it was my fault but it was not intentional. And I could see him help her with that scenario. Helping her after she hit his child over the head with a flashlight is hard to swallow, BUT IT DOES FIT PERFECTLY.

I know she is involved, just because she did not come running when Fleet said call an ambulance. I just want to know what happened. Maybe it is just a fluke that the flashlight could fit perfectly. Any other forensics say this. Not disbelieving it, just asking questions.

I think she could have been flung aroung first,but I think the crack in her skull was from a very deliberate,hard blow with the flashlight.

 

[JMO8778]

What if PR used hair dying chemicals to wash forensic evidence down the sink?? And the gloves inc. in the package were used for staging the crime??

 

[JMO8778]

http://zyberzoom.com/JonBenet.html

here's the head wound;scroll down;IMO,'overkill' is right.It looks deliberate to me,and done with an object.

go to maglite.com to see the maglite type of flashlight.these are very hard,sturdy,metal,well-built flashlights...I think you could run over one with a car and it still wouldn't break! Some of them have long handles on them as well.

 

[icedtea4me]

And there had just been a huge party for her which John had just thrown for her for her birthday. She would have had her hair done for that.

It was a surprise party so she wouldn't have known about it ahead of time.


-Tea

 

[tumble]

That JonBenet's skull was whacked on the top suggests to me that it was a deliberate directed blow!
.

Suppose it was deliberate and directed. Afterwards the killer shows great concern about the weapon and removes it from the scene. If it was the flashlight he/she even wipes it clean otherwise he bring is with him.

A blow like the one JB received would normally draw blood. If the blow was done for staging purposes hitting her like that would in a forensic initiated mind cause bloodspatter on walls, floor and clothing. This is not consistent with how the scene is staged. The staging here is very controlled and a vicious headblow is not. Just suppose there was bloodspatter, it would be a whole different situation.

Strangulation is another matter. It may seem more easily staged as it can be done in a controlled manner. IMO, the perp didn't manage it though as the telltale sign of strangulation are missing as the tyroid bone was intact and there was no damage to the tongue or inside mouth. Also the garrote shows a lack of understanding of how a real working garrote would look like.
The ligature on the wrists may be an attempt by the perp to explain why there are no scratch marks on the neck, but made no good job of it.

My mind is not set on who delivered the blow and why and under what circumstances but I am pretty sure it came first and the rest is staging to cover it up.

 

[UKGuy]

Yeah, I wondered that too. And I do see your point about her hitting JB on the head HARD ENOUGH TO KILL HER...and displace the bone in her skull....and then trying to explain that to John. I couldn't see him defending Patsy or lying for her if that was the case. BUT..if she said that she had gotten upset with JB and flew into an anger/alcohol/Xanax induced rage....and didn't intend to do JB any REAL harm....I could see JOHN helping her stage a crime scene. She convinced JOHN that it was an accident....I do believe. YEP...this case just drives me NUTS!!

Ames,

JonBenet's head injury would not have been evident, even if it had been a true Toilet Rage case, Coroner Meyer was not aware of JonBenet's cranial injuries until he did his internal investigation.

That is her killer had no fracture to show to any interested third party, all that would have been available would have been the compressed marking on the side of her neck, the contusions on the side of her head, and various other body abrasions.

Deadly force was used on JonBenet, somone wanted JonBenet dead, it was no accident!


.

 

[Veronica10]

Ames,

JonBenet's head injury would not have been evident, even if it had been a true Toilet Rage case, Coroner Meyer was not aware of JonBenet's cranial injuries until he did his internal investigation.

That is her killer had no fracture to show to any interested third party, all that would have been available would have been the compressed marking on the side of her neck, the contusions on the side of her head, and various other body abrasions.

Deadly force was used on JonBenet, somone wanted JonBenet dead, it was no accident!


.

You are right, it was no accident. Patsy totally intended to whack her over the head...she was pissed off. Rage overcame her in that moment..I think the word accident is used because PR did not intend for her to die. But she totally meant to whack her over the head.