Head blow vs strangulation

[Solace]

You are right, it was no accident. Patsy totally intended to whack her over the head...she was pissed off. Rage overcame her in that moment..I think the word accident is used because PR did not intend for her to die. But she totally meant to whack her over the head.

Why is everyone so sure that this could not be a rage "accident". It happens all the time. Someone gets so angry they do something they regret and wish they hadn't for the rest of their lives. Why does this have to be planned? I understand where you are all coming from that this head wound is so bad that it looks intentional and I agree; it is intentional at that moment, but why cannot it not be a rage "accident". Patsy said "we did not mean for this to happen".

I was talking to someone about this case last night. I said well maybe she was hit over the head with the flashlight, but if that is the case, then it is not an accident. I mean the person doing this has to know it will kill her. To which the person replied, why? One could be so angry that they do not realize the force they are using at the time and they kill her. Their anger overtakes. Isn't that called temporary insanity or the like. Yes, it is complete disregard, but it does not mean that they intended to kill her at that moment, they were blinded by rage?

This is not possible????/

 

[Ames]

Steve Thomas says the during the breaks of the interviews, Patsy smoked nonstop. She was very nervous according to him.

She SMOKED? I didn't know that!!!

 

[Ames]

Just a few thoughts regarding some topics here:

1. I always found it very odd that Patsy would be dyeing her own hair. A very wealthy woman usually does not dye her own hair. I just can't see her doing that. The home dyeing would have to be for JB because no salon would bleach a 6 year old's hair. And JB's hair dyeing was a secret that no one was supposed to know about.

2. Also, my theory, JB was smashed over the head with the flashlight, I think the pattern matches to the crack in the skull. Also, if Patsy threw JB against the sink, toilet, tub, or something else, I think she would have immediately gone into damage control be saying JB slipped and fell. With the crushing blow from the flashlight, there was NO WAY you could say it was anything other than RAGE. I think Patsy eventually told JR that she did not mean to hit JB with the flashlight, just slam it against something and scare her.[/QUOTE]

It is definitely possible. So you think she was dying JonBenet's hair that day. The bathroom did smell like peroxide too.

Yep, you know...that had been ONE of my theories...I have two of them...and in both..Patsy caused the initial head blow. I had wondered...if maybe JB was sitting at the counter snacking on pineapple, while JB dyed her hair. An argument started ....I have no idea about what...maybe JB didn't feel like having her hair dyed at 10:00 at night. Patsy got upset (remember..she DID have some cocktails at the White's party, and could have been easily aggitated)...and grabbed the flashlight, which was on the counter (along with Patsy's hair dyeing supplies)...and hit her. I am sure she probably didn't mean to hit her as hard as she did. I think before she hit her, she grabbed her by the collar and twisted it...making the marks on JB with her rings. This scenario would make sense...because JB's hair was in three ponytails...some posters speculate that this was done to disquise the head wound...I am sure that the Ramsey's knew that there would be an autopsy...and that you cannot "disquise" a head wound. I think that her hair may have been done like this, because it was being dyed. Even though I, at first...didn't think that the flashlight was involved in the head wound...this scenario would explain a few other things...like I stated above....HER HAIR SECTIONED OFF IN THREE PONYTAILS...so that Patsy could dye it. THE PINEAPPLE...she was snacking on while Patsy was dying her hair. THE FLASHLIGHT...was on the counter, and the first thing that she could get her hands on. Maybe this is the reason that the flashlight fits perfectly into her head wound....an exact match. Patsy would have had to hit her pretty hard....BUT...she was only SIX...so I wouldn't think that her skull would have been extremely thick. Someone that knows about bones, could answer that question. But, it would make sense...

 

[Veronica10]

Why is everyone so sure that this could not be a rage "accident". It happens all the time. Someone gets so angry they do something they regret and wish they hadn't for the rest of their lives. Why does this have to be planned? I understand where you are all coming from that this head wound is so bad that it looks intentional and I agree; it is intentional at that moment, but why cannot it not be a rage "accident". Patsy said "we did not mean for this to happen".

I was talking to someone about this case last night. I said well maybe she was hit over the head with the flashlight, but if that is the case, then it is not an accident. I mean the person doing this has to know it will kill her. To which the person replied, why? One could be so angry that they do not realize the force they are using at the time and they kill her. Their anger overtakes. Isn't that called temporary insanity or the like. Yes, it is complete disregard, but it does not mean that they intended to kill her at that moment, they were blinded by rage?

This is not possible????/

So agree Solace...anger, fury, rage is quite frightening. And I'm sure she absolutely did not intend to hurt her so badly.
Solace, I think you believe in the theory that Patys threw her into something (the toilet, tub,or sink) causing the head injury. I am one of the flashlight theorists. If JB were thrown into an object like the sink or toilet, wouldn't she have neck injuries as well. Wouldn't the force of the contact compress the neck? Would love to hear your thoughts on this.

 

[Ames]

[/QUOTE]

It is definitely possible. So you think she was dying JonBenet's hair that day. The bathroom did smell like peroxide too.

I do...I keep going back to the weird hairstyle. JB's hair was sectioned off..I can't imagine she wore her hair that way to the White's party. And Patsy did not do her own hair...I can see her having a very expensive stylist and colorist, but not doing it herself. Especially on Xmas day as she claimed. Her hair(color) would have been done for the holidays prior to that. I think an incident may have occurred prior to the actual dyeing taking place on JB. Patsy had to get rid of the hair chemicals down the drain...I think she claimed that she dyed her own hair on Xmas day in order to explain away any forensic evidence gathered in the drains, etc.

One more time, no way did Patsy dye her own hair. I don't believe there was ever any questioning regarding which salon she went to and if she had a colorist, and when was the last time she visited.

Yep, as I have stated above...I AGREE. I have always waffled back and forth between a rage caused by bedwetting....or something that happened during a hair dyeing event. I also agree that Patsy would have not done her own hair. I am sure that she had the beautician color it, when she had it cut. She could have also told them that she was dyeing her own hair, because she knew that there was a smell of peroxide/chemicals in the bathroom. The way that JB's hair was sectioned off makes me wonder this, too. No, there is no way that she wore her hair like that to the party, and as I stated above...I don't believe that it was put in three ponytails to "disquise" the head wound, because of course...the head wound is going to be "found"...during the autopsy.

 

[Ames]

UK, one way of looking at it is your way and another way is that she was shaken violently to wake her after being accidently hit and thus the bruising to the sides of her head. Also, the rectangular piece broken off of the skull is in the back of JonBenet's head. She hit that part of her head first violently and the crack resulted from it. Sorry, but this is the way it happened.

I just looked at the photos of JonBenet's skull. The splitting of the skull comes directly, directly from the rectangular piece that is missing. This is one blow. That is what it looks like to me.

I agree...just like I explained before in another post...just like when a rock hits your windshield, theres the hole or the PIT that the rock makes...and then cracks form from it..usually in all different directions. That's EXACTLY what happened.

 

[Ames]

Ames,can you find a pic online and provide a link? I'm curious as well,as I don't quite understand what you mean.

JMO8778....you put my name, but it was under a post by UKGuy...was this question supposed to be asked of me?...just curious.

 

[Ames]

You are right, it was no accident. Patsy totally intended to whack her over the head...she was pissed off. Rage overcame her in that moment..I think the word accident is used because PR did not intend for her to die. But she totally meant to whack her over the head.

Yes, that is what we mean by ACCIDENT. Patsy meant to either whack her on the head, or throw her against the tub or sink...but, apparently she didn't know the power of her own strength, she didn't mean to kill her.

 

[Ames]

Why is everyone so sure that this could not be a rage "accident". It happens all the time. Someone gets so angry they do something they regret and wish they hadn't for the rest of their lives. Why does this have to be planned? I understand where you are all coming from that this head wound is so bad that it looks intentional and I agree; it is intentional at that moment, but why cannot it not be a rage "accident". Patsy said "we did not mean for this to happen".

I was talking to someone about this case last night. I said well maybe she was hit over the head with the flashlight, but if that is the case, then it is not an accident. I mean the person doing this has to know it will kill her. To which the person replied, why? One could be so angry that they do not realize the force they are using at the time and they kill her. Their anger overtakes. Isn't that called temporary insanity or the like. Yes, it is complete disregard, but it does not mean that they intended to kill her at that moment, they were blinded by rage?

This is not possible????/

Yep, and it happens all the time...ever heard of "Shaken Baby Syndrome"?....And that's just ONE example. Parents blinded by rage, shaking their child violently..because it won't stop crying, or for whatever reason...trying just to get it to stop. And usually the baby stops...and NEVER cries again.

 

[JMO8778]

Yep, as I have stated above...I AGREE. I have always waffled back and forth between a rage caused by bedwetting....or something that happened during a hair dyeing event. I also agree that Patsy would have not done her own hair. I am sure that she had the beautician color it, when she had it cut. She could have also told them that she was dyeing her own hair, because she knew that there was a smell of peroxide/chemicals in the bathroom. The way that JB's hair was sectioned off makes me wonder this, too. No, there is no way that she wore her hair like that to the party, and as I stated above...I don't believe that it was put in three ponytails to "disquise" the head wound, because of course...the head wound is going to be "found"...during the autopsy.

could she have fixed it that way,to cover it b/f getting JR? b/c I can't see her saying to him..'look,i bashed in JB's skull with the flashlight'...what i see her saying is something more unintentional and accidental.So if she covered it for that reason..he may not have known about it himself ,until the autopsy was done(?)
as far as the 'beheaded' phrase in the RN,he could have thought that referred to the ligature strangling at the time.

 

[Solace]

So agree Solace...anger, fury, rage is quite frightening. And I'm sure she absolutely did not intend to hurt her so badly.
Solace, I think you believe in the theory that Patys threw her into something (the toilet, tub,or sink) causing the head injury. I am one of the flashlight theorists. If JB were thrown into an object like the sink or toilet, wouldn't she have neck injuries as well. Wouldn't the force of the contact compress the neck? Would love to hear your thoughts on this.

Veronica,

Hi I thought my post went through. I believe it was a rage killing BUT I am not so sure the flashlight was not used anymore. I am thinking it was. I just don't know where. I thought I read somewhere that Patsy use to use a flashlight when checking on the kids after the lights had been turned out. Am I wrong. Who uses a huge flashlight to go check on the kids. But I am sure I read that?? Do you know?

 

[JMO8778]

JMO8778....you put my name, but it was under a post by UKGuy...was this question supposed to be asked of me?...just curious.

opps,sry,I got that wrong.I was thinking you were the one that thought her head may have hit the edge of the bathtub,and I wasn't sure which part of it was being ref. to,so I thought a pic might be helpful.

 

[Solace]

opps,sry,I got that wrong.I was thinking you were the one that thought her head may have hit the edge of the bathtub,and I wasn't sure which part of it was being ref. to,so I thought a pic might be helpful.

JMO, did you recently post something on Mark Furman and evidence, can you post where you found that. Also anyone have pictures of the bathroom, Jon Benet's.

 

[Ames]

opps,sry,I got that wrong.I was thinking you were the one that thought her head may have hit the edge of the bathtub,and I wasn't sure which part of it was being ref. to,so I thought a pic might be helpful.

Yeah, I did think that, but now I am leaning more toward the flashlight theory...while she was having her hair dyed, and while she snacked on pineapple.

 

[Ames]

JMO, did you recently post something on Mark Furman and evidence, can you post where you found that. Also anyone have pictures of the bathroom, Jon Benet's.

I have seen pictures of JB bathroom, but can't remember where I saw them. Try acandyrose.com

 

[Veronica10]

Veronica,

Hi I thought my post went through. I believe it was a rage killing BUT I am not so sure the flashlight was not used anymore. I am thinking it was. I just don't know where. I thought I read somewhere that Patsy use to use a flashlight when checking on the kids after the lights had been turned out. Am I wrong. Who uses a huge flashlight to go check on the kids. But I am sure I read that?? Do you know?

I don't recall ever reading anything about Patsy using a flashlight to check on the kids, but it's very possible. I definitely think JB was struck with something. The flashlight is a possibility but I am open to other possibilities as well. I don't know how the flashlight was at the incident, but it would definitely help to know where the incident happened. I believe that if Patsy threw JB into a tub or sink, she could have more easily claimed JB slipped and fell hitting her head (and there would have been additional injuries present to the neck or shoulders). I think if it was a hard slam against the tub, toilet, or sink, Patsy would have called 911. But if it was an object slammed on her head (an object that became a weapon) you can't easily explain that one to police. You can't say it slipped out of my hand and cracked her skull open 8 inches.

 

[JMO8778]

JMO, did you recently post something on Mark Furman and evidence, can you post where you found that. Also anyone have pictures of the bathroom, Jon Benet's.

It was a quote by Mark Fuhrman ,he said 'this has always been an intentional murder'.But he didn't say by who,or why.But he does beleive it was an inside job.I just wish he would talk more,he's good at figuring things out,if you've ever read any of his books,esp the one on the Moxley murder.And he figured out the case in FL,Teri Sciavo(sp?) b/f her autopsy results were done.

 

[JMO8778]

I don't recall ever reading anything about Patsy using a flashlight to check on the kids, but it's very possible. I definitely think JB was struck with something. The flashlight is a possibility but I am open to other possibilities as well. I don't know how the flashlight was at the incident, but it would definitely help to know where the incident happened. I believe that if Patsy threw JB into a tub or sink, she could have more easily claimed JB slipped and fell hitting her head (and there would have been additional injuries present to the neck or shoulders). I think if it was a hard slam against the tub, toilet, or sink, Patsy would have called 911. But if it was an object slammed on her head (an object that became a weapon) you can't easily explain that one to police. You can't say it slipped out of my hand and cracked her skull open 8 inches.

also I'm thinking,wouldnt the whole side of her head be caved in,from such a tremendous force??

 

[Solace]

also I'm thinking,wouldnt the whole side of her head be caved in,from such a tremendous force??

JMO, this is a tremendous force and her head is cracked almost in two. The amazing thing is the skin is not broken. Someone posted it was probably because of her age that it did not break. But either way you look at it, it is fairly forceful. But then again, she is tiny and maybe that much force is not needed, althoough I have read the absurd reports that this had to be done by a man. But that is just more Ramsey bullsh#@.

I too wish he would speak more about this. He is just excellent.

 

[Ames]

JMO, this is a tremendous force and her head is cracked almost in two. The amazing thing is the skin is not broken. Someone posted it was probably because of her age that it did not break. But either way you look at it, it is fairly forceful. But then again, she is tiny and maybe that much force is not needed, althoough I have read the absurd reports that this had to be done by a man. But that is just more Ramsey bullsh#@.

I too wish he would speak more about this. He is just excellent.

I believe that it is because of her age, that her skull cracked so easily. I don't know why the skin wasn't broken...thats pretty weird. Hard enough to crack her skull, but not hard enough to break her skin.....hmmmmmm. I do believe that since she was only six....her skull, of course...was not mature..and therefore not as thick as an adults...and more easily breakable. So, MAYBE since the skin wasn't broken....she wasn't hit as hard as previously thought....her skull cracked because she was young, and it wasn't mature....(or thick).