Head blow vs strangulation

[UKGuy]

I don't recall ever reading anything about Patsy using a flashlight to check on the kids, but it's very possible. I definitely think JB was struck with something. The flashlight is a possibility but I am open to other possibilities as well. I don't know how the flashlight was at the incident, but it would definitely help to know where the incident happened. I believe that if Patsy threw JB into a tub or sink, she could have more easily claimed JB slipped and fell hitting her head (and there would have been additional injuries present to the neck or shoulders). I think if it was a hard slam against the tub, toilet, or sink, Patsy would have called 911. But if it was an object slammed on her head (an object that became a weapon) you can't easily explain that one to police. You can't say it slipped out of my hand and cracked her skull open 8 inches.

Veronica10,

From memory the bedside or ceiling light was not working, or both, so Patsy had taken to using the flashlight to navigate around JonBenet's bedroom.


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[Solace]

Veronica10,

From memory the bedside or ceiling light was not working, or both, so Patsy had taken to using the flashlight to navigate around JonBenet's bedroom.


.

Right. You had to go into the room to turn the light on.

 

[coloradokares]

I believe that it is because of her age, that her skull cracked so easily. I don't know why the skin wasn't broken...thats pretty weird. Hard enough to crack her skull, but not hard enough to break her skin.....hmmmmmm. I do believe that since she was only six....her skull, of course...was not mature..and therefore not as thick as an adults...and more easily breakable. So, MAYBE since the skin wasn't broken....she wasn't hit as hard as previously thought....her skull cracked because she was young, and it wasn't mature....(or thick).

Ames its obvious since I am here writing this my head injury was not as severe as JonBenets. However at a ballpark I went to the concession area Falling backwards and hitting my head on the heavy wooden picnic table behind my chair. I had bleed on the brain.Bleeding between the scalp and skull that was horrendous. A closed head injury is how that term that cause the scalp did opein and spill out. Ihad a smal fracture line in the skull very small. So obvious that of course JonBenets injury was far worse. But had an injury like mine hurt a child. It'd of been a fatal blow I believe that. Because i'd of split their poor little skull open.... That is why I wonder if they had a roman faucet on the tub or even the other kind. You'd have to see my roman tub faucetry to see why I get to mulling that over...If Patsy slammed her head in anger like that and made contact with my faucet it'd be like that darn flashlight I am sure..

 

[Nuisanceposter]

I'm so sorry to hear it, CK. Glad you're better now.

JonBenet's ceiling light had been removed during renovations and a ceiling fan without a light put in. The light for the bedroom was a lamp between the two beds, and it was not connected to the switch on the wall. JonBenet had a flashlight that she kept in her room, and I believe Patsy used one for when she went in and had JB use the toilet every night around midnight.

 

[Ames]

I believe that it is because of her age, that her skull cracked so easily. I don't know why the skin wasn't broken...thats pretty weird. Hard enough to crack her skull, but not hard enough to break her skin.....hmmmmmm. I do believe that since she was only six....her skull, of course...was not mature..and therefore not as thick as an adults...and more easily breakable. So, MAYBE since the skin wasn't broken....she wasn't hit as hard as previously thought....her skull cracked because she was young, and it wasn't mature....(or thick).

http://braininjury.com/children.html

"Recent studies show that children's skulls are only 1/8 as strong as that of adults. Thus, children are much more vulnerable to injury through deformation and fracture of the skull, which can injure the brain."

 

[Ames]

Ames its obvious since I am here writing this my head injury was not as severe as JonBenets. However at a ballpark I went to the concession area Falling backwards and hitting my head on the heavy wooden picnic table behind my chair. I had bleed on the brain.Bleeding between the scalp and skull that was horrendous. A closed head injury is how that term that cause the scalp did opein and spill out. Ihad a smal fracture line in the skull very small. So obvious that of course JonBenets injury was far worse. But had an injury like mine hurt a child. It'd of been a fatal blow I believe that. Because i'd of split their poor little skull open.... That is why I wonder if they had a roman faucet on the tub or even the other kind. You'd have to see my roman tub faucetry to see why I get to mulling that over...If Patsy slammed her head in anger like that and made contact with my faucet it'd be like that darn flashlight I am sure..

WOW....I am glad that you survived that!! Well, that proves that there CAN be a fracture, or bleeding on the brain, without breaking the skin.

 

[coloradokares]

I'm so sorry to hear it, CK. Glad you're better now.

JonBenet's ceiling light had been removed during renovations and a ceiling fan without a light put in. The light for the bedroom was a lamp between the two beds, and it was not connected to the switch on the wall. JonBenet had a flashlight that she kept in her room, and I believe Patsy used one for when she went in and had JB use the toilet every night around midnight.

Yeah I knew that JonBenet had a flashlight....I am sure Patsy did too. Boy you can sure tell as I read my posts that I am trying to adjust from an ergonomic keyboard to a regular one. I think I might have to go get a new keyboard for this new computer...I don't make sense to me from the mispellings. OY!! :doh: Yeah NP it was pretty rough for a while....memory loss and confusion etc. :crazy: But you don't survive even what poor little JB went through. That was in 98 and there are facets of the head injury that I just had to cognitively retrain to get past. Well you don't get past them as the brain got injured. More like you learn how to compensate.

 

[Albert18]

Hope you don't mind if I chime in here...

If the picture of the bathroom I have seen is her actual bathroom then when people say she hit her head on the tub they don't really mean the actual tub. The tub I saw is one of those set into a wooden support structure and that structure is covered with ceramic tile. From the edge of the tub the tile comes out horizontal a few inches and then goes down to the floor. What you have is a nasty 90 degree ceramic tile corner. I assume this edge is what people mean she struck her head on.

Whatever hit her or she hit had to be sharp enough to crush in a small part of the skull and yet not so sharp it would break the skin. I can see a ceramic tile edge doing this but I have doubts about the flashlight.

Also don't forget for a right handed person you have to turn JB around before you strike her. That could have happened but if pushed hard by a right handed person, JB is most likely to have fallen back and to her right and that is where the wound is.

 

[Solace]

WOW....I am glad that you survived that!! Well, that proves that there CAN be a fracture, or bleeding on the brain, without breaking the skin.

Okay, now we are getting somewhere. Everyone seems to think that this is a powerful blow to the head and it looks like it, yes. I am not saying it is not. I just think I could hurt a 6 year old child very very easily by slamming her against something, no problem. The Ramsey Team has tried ad nauseum to suggest that it would take a huge man to cause this blow. Colorado obviously proves that is not true. Yes, she had only a small crack, but if it were a child, probably would have been much worse.

This flashlight is driving me crazy. It fits perfectly. If you pick up a flashlight (I keep going back to this, unless you are out of your mind with rage, you are going to have to know this is going to do some severe and lasting damage). So I really want to see a picture of the bathtub and the faucets. :bang:

 

[Solace]

Hope you don't mind if I chime in here...



If the picture of the bathroom I have seen is her actual bathroom then when people say she hit her head on the tub they don't really mean the actual tub. The tub I saw is one of those set into a wooden support structure and that structure is covered with ceramic tile. From the edge of the tub the tile comes out horizontal a few inches and then goes down to the floor. What you have is a nasty 90 degree ceramic tile corner. I assume this edge is what people mean she struck her head on.

Whatever hit her or she hit had to be sharp enough to crush in a small part of the skull and yet not so sharp it would break the skin. I can see a ceramic tile edge doing this but I have doubts about the flashlight.

Also don't forget for a right handed person you have to turn JB around before you strike her. That could have happened but if pushed hard by a right handed person, JB is most likely to have fallen back and to her right and that is where the wound is.

Albert, thank you for this post. Do you know where you saw the pictures?

I am back with the bathtub injury again. If Patsy is very very angry and pulling JonBenet by the collar and pushes her into the bathroom and JonBenet slips HEAD first into the corner of the bathtub, she could have fatally injured her. DOES ANYONE AGREE WITH THIS SCENARIO. UK, WHAT ABOUT YOU??????

 

[tumble]

The problem with a bathtub accident is just that it is so easily explained as an accident. Why cover that up?

 

[Solace]

The problem with a bathtub accident is just that it is so easily explained as an accident. Why cover that up?

Because it REALLY IS NOT AN ACCIDENT. This is COMPLETE DISREGARD - OKAY Ames what is the term, Negligent Homicide? At the very least, she has to explain how the child fell into the bathtub. She knows that forensics can figure out if someone is pushed or fell. She had to have heard that loud crack. And JonBenet is nonresponsive. She is violently shaking her and nothing at all. The bruising on her brain proves this. She believes she is dead.

I NEED TO SEE THE PICTURES. The original wound is in the right front of the head and then the crack comes from that. Am I correct in that assumption. That had to be a loud loud noise.

 

[tumble]

Because it REALLY IS NOT AN ACCIDENT.

OK, agreed on that but still why cover it up with a garrote/ kidnapping when you just can try "she slipped when entering the bath". That would sure be hard to disproof.

 

[Solace]

OK, agreed on that but still why cover it up with a garrote/ kidnapping when you just can try "she slipped when entering the bath". That would sure be hard to disproof.

But Patsy thinks she is dead. She knows she pushed her very hard. She heard a very loud crack. She knows that something is broken inside of JonBenet's head. A sound like that does not come from nothing.

She knows that FORENSICS can figure that out that this is not just a simple slip and fall. I am sure the wound would be different if she had just slipped rather than pushed. Steve Thomas believes at this point, it was an accident but Patsy was terrified and at that point "went down the wrong path" and killed her daughter and staged the cellar scene and wrote the ransom note.

It sounds all so insane, which is probably a good thing, or there would be a lot more crimes like this. I know Mark Fuhrman says this is an intentional killing, but as I posted before, one can be so full of rage and cause a fatal injury andlater on say "I didn't mean for this to happen". Which is exactly what Patsy said at her friends house that evening or the next day.

 

[Albert18]

I saw the picture of the bathroom months ago and I haven't been able to find it since. I will keep trying.

If you look at the skull fracture it seems odd. The crack in the skull is basically a straight line running from front to back. You would think the crushed in (missing) portion would straddle that line but it doesn't, instead it's below the line of the fracture. You would think that would indicate to people in the know important information about the blow.

 

[Solace]

I saw the picture of the bathroom months ago and I haven't been able to find it since. I will keep trying.

If you look at the skull fracture it seems odd. The crack in the skull is basically a straight line running from front to back. You would think the crushed in (missing) portion would straddle that line but it doesn't, instead it's below the line of the fracture. You would think that would indicate to people in the know important information about the blow.

Bear with me and tell me what that means to you Albert?

 

[coloradokares]

Hope you don't mind if I chime in here...

If the picture of the bathroom I have seen is her actual bathroom then when people say she hit her head on the tub they don't really mean the actual tub. The tub I saw is one of those set into a wooden support structure and that structure is covered with ceramic tile. From the edge of the tub the tile comes out horizontal a few inches and then goes down to the floor. What you have is a nasty 90 degree ceramic tile corner. I assume this edge is what people mean she struck her head on.

Whatever hit her or she hit had to be sharp enough to crush in a small part of the skull and yet not so sharp it would break the skin. I can see a ceramic tile edge doing this but I have doubts about the flashlight.

Also don't forget for a right handed person you have to turn JB around before you strike her. That could have happened but if pushed hard by a right handed person, JB is most likely to have fallen back and to her right and that is where the wound is.

Albert you see, that is what I have for a tub. A wooden structure that is ceramic tiled that the whirlpool tub is dropped into that tiled wooden structure that holds the tub. On the front of the tub and to the end where the faucets are, are open which creates that 90% wicked corner you are speaking of. If you fell or were pushed and hit your head on that corner I'd be highly surprised if you wouldn't probably die right there. It is a tiled top and front and side all coming to a sharp solid point . Also the faucetry you use with those kind of tubs have 10 inch water spouts or more. Any of which would knock a hole in your skull and fracture your skul, most especially if you were a child. I wish you knew where you saw that picture I have googled it to try to find it. So I could show people what i am talking about. We are not talking about your standard fiberglass or porcelain bathtub. Not at all. I suppose I could take a picture of mine but we don't get to post attachements.... I had a picture of that bathroom once upon the time.......grrrrr. I have been trying to describe this scenario that plays out in my mind of her being hit or pushed or shaken so violently she was flung and stuck the corner or the Roman faucetry. It would do it. It could have been a flashlight or other thing .....but for some reason this keeps playing in my mind. So much so I actually thought of taking out our tub at one point. But lets face it I am a sucker for my whirpool tub

 

[Solace]

Albert you see that is what I have for a tub. A wooden structure that is ceramic tiled that the whirlpool tub is dropped into On the front of the tub and to the end where the faucets are, are open which creates that 90% wicked corner you are speaking of. If you feel or were pushed and hit your head you'd probably die right there. It is a tiled solid point . Also the faucetry you use with those kind of tubs have 10 inch water spouts or more. I wish you knew where you saw that picture I have googled it to try to find it. So I could show people what i am talking about. We are not talking about your standard fiberglass or porcelain bathtub. Not at all. I suppose I could take a picture of mine but we don't get to post attachements.... I had a picture of that bathroom once upon the time.......grrrrr.

I need to see this bathroom. There has to be a picture somewhere and Albert don't leave us. We need you to tell us if we have the right picture. Please. Please hang out.

 

[coloradokares]

I need to see this bathroom. There has to be a picture somewhere and Albert don't leave us. We need you to tell us if we have the right picture. Please. Please hang out.

Solace let me start charging the batteries on my digital.......if necessary I will send a picture somehow of mine. I know I saw and I mean this is years ago of the bathrooms in that home. One has this I am sure of it.....

 

[Solace]

Solace let me start charging the batteries on my digital.......if necessary I will send a picture somehow of mine. I know I saw and I mean this is years ago of the bathrooms in that home. One has this I am sure of it.....

And yours is the same as hers Colorado?