Head blow vs strangulation

[coloradokares]

And yours is the same as hers Colorado?

Well the same in that I am sure what I saw is the standard built wooden box like structure. They then are tiled or marbled.....Open to two sides and not connected to a wall.....Or like ours comes out from a wall by 6 inches of ledgework surrounding the entire structure. Yet I have another several feet at the head of the tub. So it all comes to a sharp tiled point where the front of the tub enclosure and the head of the tub enclosure meet. I am charging the digital Solace. They are called Roman tubs...... Or thats what I think they call mine. Mine houses a whirpool tub. And on the ledgework it creates that area of which you can put candles and bottles etc...... The box framed tiled housing for the tub encloses in the Jacuzzi motor and plumbing and inline heater etc. Are you getting the idea now..... Not your standard tub....

 

[Albert18]

I found the pictures, they are on the jameson site. I'm not sure how to do links but will give it a try.

http://jameson245_archive.tripod.com/jbrbedroom-A.htm

 

[Solace]

I found the pictures, they are on the jameson site. I'm not sure how to do links but will give it a try.

http://jameson245_archive.tripod.com/jbrbedroom-A.htm

Albert, that was so nice of you to find them.

Now. Are you saying that the part that encloses the tub, the "black tile" is what could cause a very nasty injury. If she hit herself head first against the tile?

 

[Solace]

Well the same in that I am sure what I saw is the standard built wooden box like structure. They then are tiled or marbled.....Open to two sides and not connected to a wall.....Or like ours comes out from a wall by 6 inches of ledgework surrounding the entire structure. Yet I have another several feet at the head of the tub. So it all comes to a sharp tiled point where the front of the tub enclosure and the head of the tub enclosure meet. I am charging the digital Solace. They are called Roman tubs...... Or thats what I think they call mine. Mine houses a whirpool tub. And on the ledgework it creates that area of which you can put candles and bottles etc...... The box framed tiled housing for the tub encloses in the Jacuzzi motor and plumbing and inline heater etc. Are you getting the idea now..... Not your standard tub....

You are wonderful to Colorado and hilarioius "I am charging the digital Solace".

I am about to leave work. Yes I am at work and talking to you folks, but I have to - it is too interesting not to. So if I don't see you tonight, I will check in first thing in the morning. I am terrible about degrees and all that. So you and Albert are saying that the tile that encloses the bathtub, in Jon Benet's case, the black tile is sticking out and if one fell against that tile, they could do serious injury? Am I following you?

Is it possible that she fell head on into the ledge enclosing the bathtub? Also the faucets look blue in the picture like they might even have plastic over them?

 

[Solace]

I saw the picture of the bathroom months ago and I haven't been able to find it since. I will keep trying.

If you look at the skull fracture it seems odd. The crack in the skull is basically a straight line running from front to back. You would think the crushed in (missing) portion would straddle that line but it doesn't, instead it's below the line of the fracture. You would think that would indicate to people in the know important information about the blow.

Albert, tell me more about what you think about the injury. I will check in tomorrow, but I am very very interested in what you have to say also. And again, thank you so much for taking the time.

 

[coloradokares]

You are wonderful to Colorado and hilarioius "I am charging the digital Solace".

I am about to leave work. Yes I am at work and talking to you folks, but I have to - it is too interesting not to. So if I don't see you tonight, I will check in first thing in the morning. I am terrible about degrees and all that. So you and Albert are saying that the tile that encloses the bathtub, in Jon Benet's case, the black tile is sticking out and if one fell against that tile, they could do serious injury? Am I following you?

Is it possible that she fell head on into the ledge enclosing the bathtub? Also the faucets look blue in the picture like they might even have plastic over them?

Ok it is enclosed but not like mine at all. the picture I saw was tiled but it seems it is closed in at the rear of the tub and the back of the tub has a ledge and the front looks or at least appears enclosed. their Faucet comes out of the wall though and had she been rough handled in the tub she sure could of smacked the faucet. This is not like mine much at all. I have a fully roman tub. So That might sort of end my specuations on the tub. I remember seeing black tile......and thinking ok.....if that is like mine she could have hit her head on the corner......She still could have but I'd have to find a really dangerous corner first......But that edge......could have done it. If it were not for the part of the skull that actually was not just fractured but broke the piece out. Something had to have broke that piece out....Faucet..... or corner. Or something including the flashlight.....or something else.

 

[coloradokares]

You are wonderful to Colorado and hilarioius "I am charging the digital Solace".

I am about to leave work. Yes I am at work and talking to you folks, but I have to - it is too interesting not to. So if I don't see you tonight, I will check in first thing in the morning. I am terrible about degrees and all that. So you and Albert are saying that the tile that encloses the bathtub, in Jon Benet's case, the black tile is sticking out and if one fell against that tile, they could do serious injury? Am I following you?

Is it possible that she fell head on into the ledge enclosing the bathtub? Also the faucets look blue in the picture like they might even have plastic over them?

I think the blue you see by the faucet is one of those blue net balls, you know the netting type pouf balls........ These pictures also say this was taken long after they moved out...Perhaps the bathroom was redone. I saw one Roman tub in that house I could have sworn it. I don't know. One thing is for sure its hard to believe my house is fancier pants'd than the Ramseys.. You should see my bathroom......oh la la.

 

[Ames]

http://braininjury.com/children.html

"Recent studies show that children's skulls are only 1/8 as strong as that of adults. Thus, children are much more vulnerable to injury through deformation and fracture of the skull, which can injure the brain."

The skull info. that I posted was on the page before this one, so I wanted to make sure you guys saw it. Because this proves to me that it wouldn't have had to been a massive blow, and that it could have been done by a WOMAN.

 

[Ames]

OK, agreed on that but still why cover it up with a garrote/ kidnapping when you just can try "she slipped when entering the bath". That would sure be hard to disproof.

Because then she would have to explain away those marks on JB's, caused by her rings, when she was bunching JB's collar up around her neck.

 

[coloradokares]

Because then she would have to explain away those marks on JB's, caused by her rings, when she was bunching JB's collar up around her neck.

Because what is JonBenet taking a bath after 10 pm unsupervised. If I had just shoved or slapped my child or shaken her hard and let her go and she hit her head in any way and heard her skull crack ...I am not sure I'd of had the presence of mind to call 911 and say oh she slipped in the tub...I think I'd be going HOLY COW I think I killed her.... I think you'd have to have bounced someones head off that corner just pretty forcefully to do what was done. Also as retentive as this sounds I don't think Patsy was willing to risk being brought up on any charges such as child endangerment or neglect any more than murder. And some kind of charges are going to be filed with a fractured skull of that magnitude. And an intruder must have given JonBenet a bath or was in the bathroom changing her wasn't going to work. Ames is completely correct in a childs skull is not fully hardened and such. I don't see alot of corners on the tub in the picture . Not like my roman tub has........ At any rate I think the tub is one potential possiblity I think there are others..... Not sure what all they are....

 

[JMO8778]

(this goes out to everyone) but,would anyone like a link to a local story here?PM me if you want to read it. I don't want to post it,b/c it has my hometown on it,as it's from the local newsppr here.I would like to know what everyone thinks...IMO,I think this was a flashlight injury as well,but not a closed wound type.It's an interesting story.It happened several yrs ago,but was brought up again,b/c it's thought they have the wrong person in prison.So it's all circumstantial evidence,but just from reading the story..my bet goes on the flashlight as the murder weapon(and of course the owner of it,not the guy currently in prison for it).
(Mod,feel free to if delete if this is inappropriate to post).

 

[icedtea4me]

Yep, you know...that had been ONE of my theories...I have two of them...and in both..Patsy caused the initial head blow. I had wondered...if maybe JB was sitting at the counter snacking on pineapple, while JB dyed her hair. An argument started ....I have no idea about what...maybe JB didn't feel like having her hair dyed at 10:00 at night. Patsy got upset (remember..she DID have some cocktails at the White's party, and could have been easily aggitated)...and grabbed the flashlight, which was on the counter (along with Patsy's hair dyeing supplies)...and hit her.

Then the pineapple would still most likely have been in her stomach, which it wasn't.

This scenario would make sense...because JB's hair was in three ponytails...some posters speculate that this was done to disquise the head wound...I am sure that the Ramsey's knew that there would be an autopsy...and that you cannot "disquise" a head wound. I think that her hair may have been done like this, because it was being dyed. Even though I, at first...didn't think that the flashlight was involved in the head wound...this scenario would explain a few other things...like I stated above....HER HAIR SECTIONED OFF IN THREE PONYTAILS...so that Patsy could dye it.

JonBenet was found wearing two ponytails, one on the top of her head and the other in the lower back of the head. You don't section off hair in ponytails to do a color job. The hair is combed out and the solution is applied to the roots at the center part. Then the top layer of hair is sectioned off with clips so that the solution can be applied to the next layer and so forth.


-Tea

 

[icedtea4me]

I believe that it is because of her age, that her skull cracked so easily. I don't know why the skin wasn't broken...thats pretty weird. Hard enough to crack her skull, but not hard enough to break her skin.....hmmmmmm. I do believe that since she was only six....her skull, of course...was not mature..and therefore not as thick as an adults...and more easily breakable. So, MAYBE since the skin wasn't broken....she wasn't hit as hard as previously thought....her skull cracked because she was young, and it wasn't mature....(or thick).

The object, which cracked her skull but didn't break the skin, would have been cylindrical in shape with no overt sharp edges, imo.


-Tea

 

[BBB167893]

accident or not,I suspect JR would have covered for her anyway.He seems to be big on his reputation and wouldnt want it publicly known he married someone who could do that.

Exactly. He would have to admit to the world and to himself that he screwed up his first marriage only to marry a monster.

"Recent studies show that children's skulls are only 1/8 as strong as that of adults. Thus, children are much more vulnerable to injury through deformation and fracture of the skull, which can injure the brain."

Excellent find.

The problem with a bathtub accident is just that it is so easily explained as an accident. Why cover that up?

I've got an idea on that if anyone's interested.

 

[coloradokares]

Exactly. He would have to admit to the world and to himself that he screwed up his first marriage only to marry a monster.



Excellent find.



I've got an idea on that if anyone's interested.

You know I am interested on the bathtub SuperDave I am waiting ... you have not answered yet. oh I have to hit send first ...ok

 

[Ames]

Then the pineapple would still most likely have been in her stomach, which it wasn't.

JonBenet was found wearing two ponytails, one on the top of her head and the other in the lower back of the head. You don't section off hair in ponytails to do a color job. The hair is combed out and the solution is applied to the roots at the center part. Then the top layer of hair is sectioned off with clips so that the solution can be applied to the next layer and so forth.


-Tea

I have read where it was three..and I have read where it was two. It really doesn't matter. I do know how to dye hair, though... I went to cosmetology school. And really there is no certain way that it has to be sectioned off. Patsy could have been going to do one pony tail section at a time. Take one pony tail down, and work with that hair, by using more smaller sections with clips. For someone that is not a beautician...PATSY for example...that way would have been the easiest.

 

[JMO8778]

The object, which cracked her skull but didn't break the skin, would have been cylindrical in shape with no overt sharp edges, imo.


-Tea

I agree,and isn't that called blunt force trauma,which I'm assuming they would be able to examine and determine if the injury was from an actual (blunt) object,or from being pushed into something.

 

[KBUK]

Its not usual for me to voice an opinion, however lurking and taking on board others opinions, I wondered if we were looking in the wrong place? I have searched the threads, and maybe this has been covered, so forgive me if so....

I don't think the bath surround could have caused the head injury (in my non professional opinion!).

What if... PR and JB were in the bedroom, JB is tired, wants to fall into bed in her clothes, but PR is insistant she changes for bed... what if PR trys to remove JBs top and a scuffle ensues, JBs top is caught around her neck and PR is pulling and pulling, unaware that her actions are perventing JB from breathing. As JBs body becomes limp, and she loses consciousness, PR realises something is wrong... and lets go of the top, causing JB to fall forward and downwards... straight onto the edge of her bed. If you look at the photos of JBs room, each of the beds ends have scrolled posts protruding (sp?) slightly higher than her mattresses.. could she have fallen onto one of those? Like another poster (I'm sorry I forgot who) suggests, the injury is consistant with a rounded object.

Also the smell of peroxide could be confused with domestic amonia used for, amoungst other things, cleaning intense stains from carpets and upholstery.

 

[icedtea4me]

I agree,and isn't that called blunt force trauma,which I'm assuming they would be able to examine and determine if the injury was from an actual (blunt) object,or from being pushed into something.

Dr. Meyers and Det Arndt were in agreement that the linear 8 1/2" skull fracture was caused by a blow to the head.


-Tea

 

[icedtea4me]

I have read where it was three..and I have read where it was two. It really doesn't matter. I do know how to dye hair, though... I went to cosmetology school. And really there is no certain way that it has to be sectioned off. Patsy could have been going to do one pony tail section at a time. Take one pony tail down, and work with that hair, by using more smaller sections with clips. For someone that is not a beautician...PATSY for example...that way would have been the easiest.

The autopsy report states there were two ponytails. And cloth hair ties and elastic bands would be the worst things one could use to section off hair for a color job.


-Tea