I am so Angry

[PrayersForMaura]

Oh yeah, people who live on $8,000 or less per year have all kinds of valuables to sell. They can sell them to their neighbors, who probably live on even less. Take an expensive cab - they're all over the place during an evacuation. Better yet, evacuate in style. Hire a limo.

What, the people have no bread? Let them eat cake.

it takes how much to get to a shelter?? you're telling me they got to a superdome in horrendous conditions but they couldn't get their way to a shelter in better conditions??

 

[Mabel]

they ARE attempting to fix it and not everyone there is without food and water.
And yes, people ARE blaming just Bush. Maybe you aren't but people out there ARE. I don't think my post was addressing you personally, was it??

The problem is obvious. I don't think anyone can ignore it, it's on the TV every time we turn it on. It's sad. With all the media camera there covering it, surely they brought people some food?

Instead of griping, what would everyone in here have suggested as the first step plan?? I'm just curious?

Well, as long as SOME people have food and water lets not trouble ourselves worrying about those who are dying. Odd that you, who are so upset that people are questioning the government's lack of response, are so quick to criticize the media for the same thing. It's the governments DUTY to assist these people, not the media's. How do you know that the media hasn't given assistance when they could? I've heard stories that many of them have.

 

[DEPUTYDAWG]

ChronWatch.com[/URL]

Dang, you find some very interesting articles! The part you highlighted about them not even following their own emergency plan, well...again, after the immediacy is over, there better be some housecleaning at that level....policies look great on paper, but they don't work if no one knows them....

I'm slowly starting to do some of that finger-pointing that I really didn't want to do so soon...help me! LOL I know it doesn't help anything right now. Just glad to hear there is progress today

 

[Mabel]

it takes how much to get to a shelter?? you're telling me they got to a superdome in horrendous conditions but they couldn't get their way to a shelter in better conditions??

The majority of them were bused to the superdome. That's where they were told to go. Where is this better shelter that you speak of? Should they hire yachts to take them there through the flood waters?

 

[Beyond Belief]

The choice of shots the media shows us really can have a bad effect on how we think. Just one for instance comes to mind, that really upset me, showed one shot of being screaming for food and then a shot of a lady who had been given food and things, her comment was "yeah, we got food, something you heat yourself, we couldn't eat that stuff. we haven't had a hot meal all day.'

Well, I know that was a ready to eat meal she was given. our soldiers eat them, we lived on them after the hurricanes here in florida last year, so what can say. I do agree their not the most appetizing meals.

I am just trying to make the point that the news media controls how we react to these situations with what they share with us.

 

[Details]

you can sell something in your house to get out, or ya, take a cab, expensive as it is, to a shelter .... it was an emergency evacuation....

Sell to who? Cabs aren't available - they're evacuating too.

However, the free buses to the Superdome were available, and the Superdome was NOT full when the hurricane hit. That is the choice they made, to ride it out at home, rather than at the designated shelter.

I don't think it was that practical to get everyone out of New Orleans -
First, moving very sick people from nursing homes and hospitals tends to kill a fair percentage of them - it's not something you do when there is any chance the hurricane will not hit - and in fact, it didn't do a direct hit, and the hospitals and nursing homes were fine. It was that levee that was the problem.
Second, where to move them to? Everywhere was in the path of that hurricane. You can't just move everyone a hundred miles away because of a maybe - this wasn't the first maybe to come along, it won't be the last. Yeah, they lost the gamble, but it's just not realistic to do that every time a natural disaster threatens. And anywhere closer might have also been hit by the hurricane - where is there hurricane safe shelter for 100,000 people that includes hospital and nursing home care for a fair percentage of those? It sure had better not be some dumb tent city like they often use - that'd kill even more people if the hurricane hit it instead of, or in addition to the city.

 

[DEPUTYDAWG]

I can see some people being unable to evacuate - but not 20% of the city.

I totally agree. My boss said yesterday, in their District Emergency Operations meeting, said, "How many times, over the years, have we heard people say, 'I'm ridin' this one out.'" Yep. Some, not all, had a choice.

 

[Olivia77]

I am just trying to make the point that the news media controls how we react to these situations with what they share with us.

I agree, I saw something last night about one person getting food for their family with the caption, " man obtains food and water for their family from the local store." Another person was doing the same with the caption "this man just looted and stole food from the store."

Troubling...

 

[Beyond Belief]

I can see some people being unable to evacuate - but not 20% of the city.

I can see not wanting to go to the city sponsored evacuation centers because they won't take pets (I can't say I'd go without my cats) - but I think then people do have to accept their own responsibility for that choice - I'd know I was risking my life for my cats. I wouldn't do it if I had kids - it really is a choice to risk your life for your pets, and I couldn't do that to anyone else.

I am sure that most of the gangs that stayed behind did so to loot the place, and I've got no sympathy for them.

Yes, for everyone who had a choice about evacuating (and I count evacuating to the Superdome - that was the safest place, and has been a safe, if uncomfortable and disgusting place - and free buses and lots of publicity were provided about the availability of that option (I heard about it before the hurricane, so this isn't just some spin the officials are putting on a lackluster attempt) - there's no excuse not to take it), I think they should recognize they have some responsibility for their current predicament. Doesn't mean we should react any differently to them in their need now; but it's a lesson for everyone when they decide they won't evacuate when they could.



As to not letting the Red Cross in - I think they've got a point there. People are still wanting to stay in the city - while expecting to be fed, cared for, and rescued when they get in trouble. They shouldn't starve people or anything, but setting up a tent city, food for anyone who walks up would just mean that a lot of people would remain in the city instead of accepting evacuation. It's a hard thing to accept that your home city, everything you have is gone, that you can't even try to recover for at least 1-2 months; but that's how it has to be.

Attempting to make New Orleans even remotely habitable again is an enourmous task - it'll be far too hard if they also have to deal with people calling for rescue or food or water or medical assistance while they're trying to fix everything.

Yeah, it's cold and callous, and it's the solution that will in the long term have the best results for everyone. I always remember that classic House line - I've been cursed with the ability to do the math.

That is really well said.

 

[Ntegrity]

Just one for instance comes to mind, that really upset me, showed one shot of being screaming for food and then a shot of a lady who had been given food and things, her comment was "yeah, we got food, something you heat yourself, we couldn't eat that stuff. we haven't had a hot meal all day.'

I saw that too and was disgusted by the woman's attitude. It's good enough for our soldiers, but not for her? Maybe she would've preferred filet mignon.

 

[Details]

I agree, I saw something last night about one person getting food for their family with the caption, " man obtains food and water for their family from the local store." Another person was doing the same with the caption "this man just looted and stole food from the store."

Troubling...

Yep, everyone agrees that getting food and water you need is not looting. Nor is getting a change of clothes, a pair of shoes, a blanket.

Looting is taking things you don't require to survive, jewelry, TVs, more food than you need to eat to sell to other survivors, etc.

But that lady complaining about the MRE's obviously doesn't need the help that much, if she's willing to be complaining about the quality of the food. Our troops eat them, they aren't that bad. If you don't want it, there are lots of other people who do.

 

[Mabel]

I saw that too and was disgusted by the woman's attitude. It's good enough for our soldiers, but not for her? Maybe she would've preferred filet mignon.

Some of the meals need to be cooked to be edible. Soilders carry a little sterno can with them that they cook over. I don't know if that's the case with this woman. She couldn't have been too hungry if the meal was edible and she simply didn't care for it.

 

[Details]

I was thinking about the subject of judgementalism - such as saying that people who chose to ride out the hurricane when they didn't have to are part of the problem - it seems to me that there's a very good reason people say and think these kinds of things. It provides a societal and an internal push to do the right thing when it comes to your own choice.

Imagine that right now a hurricane is heading towards you and there's a mandatory evacuation order; and you really don't want to obey it - you figure you can ride it out, you don't want the looters to get the stuff in your house, you just hate the idea of abandoning everything to evacuate. I'd say in my case, one thing that would provide a balancing push to do the right thing and leave is remembering how I felt towards those in other disasters who chose not to leave, and made the rescuers risk their lives to help them, and remembering how society in general will think I'm an idiot for not leaving when I have the choice.

I think that's the positive and useful side of judgementalism - and I don't think there's a thing wrong with making judgements about what is right or wrong.

 

[TexMex]

I'm experienced in earthquakes and wildfires, but hurricanes/tornadoes, nope. So, lemme know when it's time to get the heck outta Dodge, okay?! I will NOT be one to stay behind!

You are safe from hurricanes in central TX Dawg.
Now tornados....a lady at out church lost her sister and her family (husband, twin high school boys) in the Jarrell tornado in 1997--F5 tornado that killed over 30. They lived in the Double Creek Estates subdivision
which was totally destroyed by the F5 which was a mile wide with winds over 200mph. All you could see of the homes were the foundations of some of them.


Here's one account:


The tornado first touched down in Bell County, about a mile west of I-35. It then tracked south-southwest into Williamson County, Texas, where it grazed the northwestern portion of Jarrell, striking Double Creek Estates. ... Williamson County is a county located in the state of Texas. ...

Later analysis of the damage indicated the tornado was a definite F5. It is believed that in the field where the tornado developed, it ripped the corn husks out of the ground by the millions and then impaled the cows in the next field. The tornado lifted the cows and dropped them on the ground multiple times, breaking their legs.

The grass and dirt was ripped up out of the ground to a depth of 18 in (50 cm). When the tornado crossed county roads outside Jarrell, it ripped 500 feet (150m) of asphalt off the roads. After passing through Double Creek Estates, the tornado headed toward a heavily wooded area where the damage abruptly stopped.


Where's my roof?

At one of the early houses struck, the tornado ripped off the roof of a monolithic concrete shelter (approximately 6 inches thick, weighing well over a ton). The shelter's owner looked for his missing roof for a week without success. Apparently it caught into the wind, ripped off the top of the shelter, and flew off like a Frisbee, never to be seen again. The tornado was only at F2 strength at the time.

The first Williamson County Sheriffs Deputy to arrive on the scene was not familiar with that particular area. He saw the path of the tornado by the damaged earth it left behind, but he did not immediately see any typical damaged homes or debris. He called out on the radio that the tornado had not seemed to have produced any damage. He was not aware that the blank land that he was looking at had 10 minutes earlier been the Double Creek neighborhood, it was wiped clean. Houses were vaporized, concrete slabs were pulverized, and sewer & water pipes were sucked up out of the ground.



--------Mother Nature sure can be a 'mother'

 

[DEPUTYDAWG]

I was thinking about the subject of judgementalism - such as saying that people who chose to ride out the hurricane when they didn't have to are part of the problem - it seems to me that there's a very good reason people say and think these kinds of things. It provides a societal and an internal push to do the right thing when it comes to your own choice.

Imagine that right now a hurricane is heading towards you and there's a mandatory evacuation order; and you really don't want to obey it - you figure you can ride it out, you don't want the looters to get the stuff in your house, you just hate the idea of abandoning everything to evacuate. I'd say in my case, one thing that would provide a balancing push to do the right thing and leave is remembering how I felt towards those in other disasters who chose not to leave, and made the rescuers risk their lives to help them, and remembering how society in general will think I'm an idiot for not leaving when I have the choice.

I think that's the positive and useful side of judgementalism - and I don't think there's a thing wrong with making judgements about what is right or wrong.

We all make judgments in our daily lives, oftentimes having to weigh the risks and the benefits of any decision we make, even as far as choosing who are friends are.... Yes, using our judgment can be a very good thing! And, as you were saying, learning from past judgments made by others. Hopefully, we DO learn from others. I agree with your post, in case I've babbled on too long, LOL.

 

[Dara]

President Bush will go down as the biggest "whipping boy" in history, IMO. Is there anything left that we can blame on him?

Is there anything you would blame on him?

 

[DEPUTYDAWG]

You are safe from hurricanes in central TX Dawg.
Now tornados....a lady at out church lost her sister and her family (husband, twin high school boys) in the Jarrell tornado in 1997--F5 tornado that killed over 30. They lived in the Double Creek Estates subdivision
which was totally destroyed by the F5 which was a mile wide with winds over 200mph. All you could see of the homes were the foundations of some of them.


--------Mother Nature sure can be a 'mother'

(Enter Twighlight Zone music...) I just heard about that tornado on August 10Th! A co-worker and I were driving to a meeting at HQ in Austin, and we passed Jarrell...she told me all about it! Hard to believe.... and I know about the Waco tornado in 1953 (?) that killed 50+. So I know they happen, good Lord.

 

[Details]

We all make judgments in our daily lives, oftentimes having to weigh the risks and the benefits of any decision we make, even as far as choosing who are friends are.... Yes, using our judgment can be a very good thing! And, as you were saying, learning from past judgments made by others. Hopefully, we DO learn from others. I agree with your post, in case I've babbled on too long, LOL.

Yeah, replying to one of my always lengthy posts, and you worry that you're babbling? :crazy:

 

[nanandjim]

Is there anything you would blame on him?

Yes...my thinning hair...

 

[TexMex]

(Enter Twighlight Zone music...) I just heard about that tornado on August 10Th! A co-worker and I were driving to a meeting at HQ in Austin, and we passed Jarrell...she told me all about it! Hard to believe.... and I know about the Waco tornado in 1953 (?) that killed 50+. So I know they happen, good Lord.

My grandma lived in West Texas, north of Abilene--nothing but cotton fields and cattle. They had a storm cellar stocked with some food and water, a radio and flashlights and a few blankets to get in when you hear or see one is coming!

No time for evacuation with tornados--only time to get somewhere a little bit safer. They tell people in mobile homes to abandon their homes and lay in a ditch!