IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #19

[cindersoot]

Thank you. In that article, both Abben and Pahl are 'quoted,' so is that the confusion here? Is it just me, or is this entire thing full of confusion? <lol>
Still, as time went on, that timeline only served to bother me even more. Something is just... hinky, period.

I know, I totally remember Abben saying that. I'm so confused.:maddening:

 

[Marilynilpa]

If a witness told TB that he saw the girls on their bikes at 2:30, but the bikes were "found" at 2:00...ummm...that's another problem. MOO

Why is this a problem? LE has never confirmed any statement made by TB's witness AFAIK. IMO, this man saw a couple of kids on their bikes, but they weren't Lyric and Elizabeth. The bikes being found at 2:00 has no bearing on any 2:30 sighting of two girls by TB's witness. JMO

 

[Marilynilpa]

Thank you. In that article, both Abben and Pahl are 'quoted,' so is that the confusion here? Is it just me, or is this entire thing full of confusion? <lol>
Still, as time went on, that timeline only served to bother me even more. Something is just... hinky, period.

In the article I posted, where does it quote Abben saying anything about an 8 minute bike ride? I just re-read the article and don't see it.

So the confusion is that the article I linked quotes Pahl discussing the 8 minute bike ride, but not Abben. I can't find a link where Abben discusses an 8 minute bike ride, and I've asked for a link from those of you who have seen it.

I'm not being snarky, by the way. I thought I read the comment by Abben as well, but I can find no link to it. I believe I just got that info confused, thinking it was Abben's statement when it was Pahl's.:waitasec:

 

[nursebeeme]

Why wasn't the runners timeline of seeing the bikes mentioned anywhere?

if he is a witness, why would it need to be? if LE thinks they need to share that information with the public I am sure they would have done so.:twocents:

 

[TeenyTaurus]

I know, I totally remember Abben saying that. I'm so confused.:maddening:

“It looked kind of grainy to me, I mean just zoom they were by the thing and so it’s very hard to really make much out on the thing,” Black Hawk County Chief Deputy Rick Abben said.
Okay, THAT one I DO recall Abben saying on video (somewhere in YouTube by now, I would imagine... gawd!) and, as soon as you stated Abben said the "8 minute" thing I, too, transposed Pahl's statement. :banghead: Just goes to show how reliable "eye witnesses" can be, too, eh? <lol> Add to this Abben's statement that "it's important to note they were riding away from Meyers Lake" in regards to the auction house video... my mind wants to explode here.
Then again... I do have notes... I'm anal retentive that way, at least. Hm...

 

[ShyViolet]

::thumps forehead" You are correct, he did! Do you by chance have either a link to that PC or a date of when it was? Tied in to other things early on, "8 minutes" still looked rather odd. After doing my own little experiment here on my bike, I found 8 minutes extremely tight myself, and would have questioned such. MOO

Jumping off your post--Assuming that 8 minute timeline is correct ( I am skeptical) the girls did not just make it to the lake in 8 minutes, they made it there and were already disappeared in 8 minutes. I would be interested to know if someone could bike from the area near the Collins' home to the lake, drop their bike(s) near the gate, then also walk to either the grassy or wooded area, all within the 8 minutes?

 

[cindersoot]

if he is a witness, why would it need to be? if LE thinks they need to share that information with the public I am sure they would have done so.:twocents:

I just thought the public might be interested to know.

 

[cindersoot]

Jumping off your post--Assuming that 8 minute timeline is correct ( I am skeptical) the girls did not just make it to the lake in 8 minutes, they made it there and were already disappeared in 8 minutes. I would be interested to know if someone could bike from the area near the Collins' home to the lake, drop their bike(s) near the gate, then also walk to either the grassy or wooded area, all within the 8 minutes?

I did it in 9 minutes/ it can be done.

 

[Marilynilpa]

if he is a witness, why would it need to be? if LE thinks they need to share that information with the public I am sure they would have done so.:twocents:

Absolutely! I think we all want info so badly to help find these girls that we get impatient with LE. I would imagine that there a lot of things about any major investigation that isn't revealed to the public for strategic reasons.

Having said that, though, oh how I wish I had a spy in the police department!

 

[revampz]

I havent been on this thread for a while, but one thing I got out of what the dept of criminal investigations wrote is that they are certain it is an abduction.....not an accident etc. Also saying that the abductor would have driven there..........maybe its me but to say outright like that, that they were abducted they must have some other form of info..... llike a few others above, I have always had it in my mind that it could still be an accident and they are in the lake or a drainpipe etc etc but they are really going with the abduction scenario instead of saying "not sure" etc

 

[cindersoot]

“It looked kind of grainy to me, I mean just zoom they were by the thing and so it’s very hard to really make much out on the thing,” Black Hawk County Chief Deputy Rick Abben said.
Okay, THAT one I DO recall Abben saying on video (somewhere in YouTube by now, I would imagine... gawd!) and, as soon as you stated Abben said the "8 minute" thing I, too, transposed Pahl's statement. :banghead: Just goes to show how reliable "eye witnesses" can be, too, eh? <lol> Add to this Abben's statement that "it's important to note they were riding away from Meyers Lake" in regards to the auction house video... my mind wants to explode here.
Then again... I do have notes... I'm anal retentive that way, at least. Hm...

Yup, they also said, "riding away from the lake". I never understood that.

 

[nursebeeme]

I just thought the public might be interested to know.

A successful case (and eventual..lease: prosecution) always outweighs public desire to know.

 

[CN2Souls]

Let see if I can remember correctly,


At first on JVM ----TB said there was a Runner who saw the bikes at 2-2:30 ish

Then

TG came forward with the 12:20- 12: 27 ish


Then

FBI stated Runner at 2:00ish


I think :waitasec:

 

[Sunlight]

Why is this a problem? LE has never confirmed any statement made by TB's witness AFAIK. IMO, this man saw a couple of kids on their bikes, but they weren't Lyric and Elizabeth. The bikes being found at 2:00 has no bearing on any 2:30 sighting of two girls by TB's witness. JMO[/QUOT

That's why I said "if". If he actually did see the girls, that would make the bikes "found" at 2:00 questionable. Up until recently, it was said that a firefighter found the bikes at 3:30 and Abben saw them and the official time is 3:58. If he saw different girls, which is probable, then that is another matter. That's why I think there are just more conflicts in the timing now with that "bikes found around 2:00" recent thing. MOO

 

[SapphireSteel]

I am certain I would never speak to the media if I were a witness, after reading some of the fall out.

 

[foxbluff]

You said Le typically states facts, but remember when LE also said that the girls could not have rode their bikes to the lake in 8 minutes? Well that wasn't taken seriously I thought because they didn't think it could be done.

I don't recall LE making the 8 minute statement. Cinder, are you perhaps thinking of Pahl?

Pahl of the camera video showing the girls riding bikes by the auction bldg. at 12:11 p.m., told wcf (I believe he was referencing TG's statement that he saw the kids' bikes at lake at about 12:20 p.m.) that it's pretty hard for the girls to get a mile & 1/2 away in 8 minutes - He didn't think even he could ride a bike a mile in 8 minutes.

ETA: Of course, Pahl had said the camera ran 8 minutes slower than his cell phone, so I guess that would mean it only took the girls 1 minute to reach lake! lol

 

[CN2Souls]

DANIEL MORRISSEY, FATHER OF LYRIC: When I got there, it was around 5 p.m. And they already roped off the whole area, and they weren`t allowing anybody back there. I have no idea what the bikes` positions were.

I believe the direction they said was going west on the trail. So like, they were going to probably continue in the same direction. They just stopped, it seemed like.

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/16/ijvm.01.html

I didn't know they were going west on the trail.... :waitasec:

 

[roseofsharon]

IMO, I think it could be possible that the girls biked to the lake and had returned to Brovan Blvd. and that's when Grandma saw them across the street in the Lederman's parking lot and their scent was at the lake from that ride.

The cctv footage may have been the girls racing to the turn around point on Lake Ave. before they had to return home.

With the above theory, the girls may have been abducted from the parking lot and the bikes were staged at the lake.

The bikes may have been temporarily pulled into a loading dock area and then quickly driven to the lake via Maiden Ave.

Just out of curiosity, as I am not electronically savy, but what exactly would cause a cctv timer to run slow?

Just MOO

 

[jadejazzkayla]

A successful case (and eventual..lease: prosecution) always outweighs public desire to know.

finding the children should always outweigh le's desire to potentially arrest and prosecute :twocents:

 

[Marilynilpa]

&#8220;It looked kind of grainy to me, I mean just zoom they were by the thing and so it&#8217;s very hard to really make much out on the thing,&#8221; Black Hawk County Chief Deputy Rick Abben said.
Okay, THAT one I DO recall Abben saying on video (somewhere in YouTube by now, I would imagine... gawd!) and, as soon as you stated Abben said the "8 minute" thing I, too, transposed Pahl's statement. :banghead: Just goes to show how reliable "eye witnesses" can be, too, eh? <lol> Add to this Abben's statement that "it's important to note they were riding away from Meyers Lake" in regards to the auction house video... my mind wants to explode here.
Then again... I do have notes... I'm anal retentive that way, at least. Hm...

I completely agree, I transposed the statement too until I started looking for a link to it. That's when I realized what I'd done.

I would still like Abben to explain why he said it was important to note the girls were riding away from Meyers Lake. It's like a very specific statement, but exactly what does that statement mean? Why is it important to note that? And why say they were riding away from the lake, when several locals have stated that isn't correct?

I think I need an aspirin. Or a Valium!

ETA: Or maybe I just need telepathy - there are a lot of things about this case I'd love to understand.