IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #24

[Marilynilpa]

I'm 2 days behind on reading, so I'm sorry if this has already been mentioned. When they reported on the news yesterday about Heather's surgery, they also said there was no no info. from LE. However, they did say that the Des Moines Register had reported that an aunt told the newspaper that LE told the family that the girls were killed shortly after they disappeared.:cry: I have not read this info. myself on the DMR website.

Quote:

The girls’ aunt, Tammy Brousseau, 48, of Waterloo, said Friday that authorities told family members that the girls died shortly after they disappeared in mid-July.

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2012312160054

 

[iamnotagolem]

Again, not possible for the perp to go that way. The on ramp to 20 was closed for con struction. He most likely would have gone to dubuque road, or all the way east on Gilbert to elk run road.

Follow the red dotted lines on Otto's map.

 

[roseofsharon]

It's been stated that it is likely or possible that someone told Lyric and Elizabeth something that would indicate that they could go to the lake. Who would they take as an authority figure enough to overrule Grandma?

Heather was at the doctor, Drew was at work, Misty was at work, Dan lived in a different town and was there with his mom.

Who could possibly override Grandma?

Someone very close who knew the family, including the girls and could persuade them by saying your grandma told me to tell you to ...... or a person(s) in a position of authority/trust.

I wonder if LE entered every store on that stretch of Lafayette to look for forensic evidence.


IMO

 

[Marilynilpa]

Two more quotes from the Des Moines Register article:

They wonder how many people were involved, whether they are from the area, and if they were familiar with Meyers Lake, where the girls disappeared, and Seven Bridges, where their bodies were discovered.

-

The two women [Wylma and Tammy] were helping Heather Collins decorate her house for Christmas when they were notified on Dec. 5 that they needed to meet with police about the discovery.

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2012312160054

BBM

I wonder if LE has confirmed to them that the girls did disappear from Meyers Lake, as opposed to some other location. To me, it sounds that way, but I can see that it may be open to interpretation.

Also, I wasn't aware that Wylma and Tammy were at Heather's house when they were notified on December 5th that they needed to meet with police.

 

[carbuff]

Again, not possible for the perp to go that way. The on ramp to 20 was closed for con struction. He most likely would have gone to dubuque road, or all the way east on Gilbert to elk run road.

Is there a reason he wouldn't have just gone down Lafayette Road?

 

[Marilynilpa]

I would say no.

I was a good kid and so I would say never in a million years. So I asked my husband who got in quite a bit of trouble as a child, especially between the ages of 8-10 and asked him. He said there is no way he would go further than allowed, he would get in trouble.

If they were allowed to ride within a short area, why risk that little bit of freedom by going a mile away? Not just going 5-6 blocks or going a bit beyond where they were allowed, but going 1 mile away to somewhere they had previously requested and been forbidden to go?

Even if Lizzie dared it once, I just can't imagine her doing it every night.

 

[otto]

Again, not possible for the perp to go that way. The on ramp to 20 was closed for con struction. He most likely would have gone to dubuque road, or all the way east on Gilbert to elk run road.

I'll update the map ... not tonight.

 

[roseofsharon]

With it being so hot that day, another possible lure may have been someone suggesting the girls looked like they needed an ice cream cone and offering to buy it for them and to just follow them to the store.

Would the nearest store for ice cream be Casey's?

IMO

 

[iamnotagolem]

Is there a reason he wouldn't have just gone down Lafayette Road?

The map is made in correlation with the surveillance video showing the girls riding away from lafayette.

 

[iamnotagolem]

With it being so hot that day, another possible lure may have been someone suggesting the girls looked like they needed an ice cream cone and offering to buy it for them and to just follow them to the store.

Would the nearest store for ice cream be Casey's?

IMO

I thought of that, too. There is a dairy queen right next to the post office.

 

[otto]

Is there a reason he wouldn't have just gone down Lafayette Road?

Since he was at Meyers Lake with two children in his vehicle, with or without the bikes, he would have taken the best route to 7 Bridges Park, avoiding other traffic and stops. Does Lafayette have stop lights? If so, then it wouldn't be a good choice.

 

[iamnotagolem]

Someone very close who knew the family, including the girls and could persuade them by saying your grandma told me to tell you to ...... or a person(s) in a position of authority/trust.

I wonder if LE entered every store on that stretch of Lafayette to look for forensic evidence.


IMO

So they are not allowed to ride to the lake, Grandma, Heather and Misty have never allowed them to ride to the lake. But a trusted friend/relative sees them presumably within a block of their house and says "Grandma says to ride to Lake Meyers!"????

I'm having a hard time imagining where the girls don't say "okay, let's go finish our juice and drop off my purse before we go". I just can't see them taking instructions like that from anyone without a second's hesitation.

I can totally see "Heather is in the hospital, get in the van I'll take you there". Because I'm pretty sure if someone told me that I'd still get in with them. :$

 

[otto]

With it being so hot that day, another possible lure may have been someone suggesting the girls looked like they needed an ice cream cone and offering to buy it for them and to just follow them to the store.

Would the nearest store for ice cream be Casey's?

IMO

They were last seen in the video heading away from Casey's.

 

[Marilynilpa]

Wait a second, something just struck me as odd. Here's the quote from my previous post:

Heather Collins said the family has strict rules with Elizabeth about how far she is allowed to go and how often she has to check in.

"If she goes more than one block, she tells us and she calls us when she gets there and she calls us when she comes home," Collins said. "This is not like her normal thing."

http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-io...ng-lake-search/story?id=16784357#.UM_lnG88CSo

BBM

If Lizzie went more than one block on her bike, how did she call them when she got wherever she was going? She didn't have a working cell phone, just one that was used only for games.

And if she was just riding around aimlessly, she wouldn't have "gotten" anywhere per se, so how could she call to let them know she'd gotten there?

Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but it sounds like maybe Lizzie did regularly ride more than one block, perhaps to a friend's house where she used their phone to call home. JMO . If so, it would be interesting to know what route she took.

 

[iamnotagolem]

Wait a second, something just struck me as odd. Here's the quote from my previous post:

Heather Collins said the family has strict rules with Elizabeth about how far she is allowed to go and how often she has to check in.

"If she goes more than one block, she tells us and she calls us when she gets there and she calls us when she comes home," Collins said. "This is not like her normal thing."

http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-io...ng-lake-search/story?id=16784357#.UM_lnG88CSo

BBM

If Lizzie went more than one block on her bike, how did she call them when she got wherever she was going? She didn't have a working cell phone, just one that was used only for games.

And if she was just riding around aimlessly, she wouldn't have "gotten" anywhere per se, so how could she call to let them know she'd gotten there?

Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but it sounds like maybe Lizzie did regularly ride more than one block, perhaps to a friend's house where she used their phone to call home. JMO . If so, it would be interesting to know what route she took.

Maybe we can get Otto to plot all of her friends' houses on a map for us.

 

[otto]

I thought of that, too. There is a dairy queen right next to the post office.

They were last seen heading West on Brovan. If they disappeared within a block of their house, then it was probably at the end of the street, where Brovan meets River Front Road ... then South to Gilbert, ditch the bikes at Meyers Lake, head North to 7 Bridges County Park.

Here's another view of the same area

 

[roseofsharon]

So they are not allowed to ride to the lake, Grandma, Heather and Misty have never allowed them to ride to the lake. But a trusted friend/relative sees them presumably within a block of their house and says "Grandma says to ride to Lake Meyers!"????

I'm having a hard time imagining where the girls don't say "okay, let's go finish our juice and drop off my purse before we go". I just can't see them taking instructions like that from anyone without a second's hesitation.

I can totally see "Heather is in the hospital, get in the van I'll take you there". Because I'm pretty sure if someone told me that I'd still get in with them. :$

Not quite what I was thinking. I don't think the perp said grandma said ... ride to Meyers Lake, no, not this scenario at all ... IMO, the perp placed those bikes and purse at Meyers Lake.

The perp persuaded the girls to enter the back of a store (with bikes) or get into a vehicle that would also hold their bikes and made up some story that the girls obviously believed because they knew the person or knew that someone in the family knew the person or someone a child would trust in the community.

IMO

 

[georger]

Driving behind both locations, the only hard time I had to get out of was menuevering behind Lofty's. Very tight spot, and only one direction to go in. I had to make a right and then go through the stored semi trailer( beds??) to get out of there, which opened up to all the backs of the businesses, in full view of all the houses. The other end I drove into went to the parking lot of Lofty's, then out into the street.

Given how reckless kids can sometimes be on their bikes, I have to
wonder if either girl's autopsy showed signed on an accident ? (with yours
above in mind). Evidently not since LE has not announced or implied
that ?

 

[carbuff]

The map is made in correlation with the surveillance video showing the girls riding away from lafayette.

Yes, but that doesn't mean he had to continue that way after snatching them, if that's what happened, and when.

It doesn't make sense that he would grab them and then drive to the lake to dump the bikes before he finished the rest of his business. It's too far out of the way. I can believe he went back when he was done to dispose of the bikes in a misleading way, but that he'd take that roundabout way through construction to get to the lake while he had the girls in the back seems to stretch credibility just a bit

 

[iamnotagolem]

They were last seen heading West on Brovan. If they disappeared within a block of their house, then it was probably at the end of the street, where Brovan meets River Front Road ... then South to Gilbert, ditch the bikes at Meyers Lake, head North to 7 Bridges County Park.

I agree. But I think it is possible that if someone was at Casey's or Dairy Queen and saw the girls, they may have followed in the same general direction.