IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #30

[Just Pat 22]

WITH all my heart the Girl's will have justice. We will find who destroyed two beautiful girl's for their own self gratifacation.God will not let this perp go unpunished it take's time and yes a lot of thing's were bloched but that does not mean they get away with it . I believe we will see justice done we just have to be patient and pray for answer's The truth will come out the girl's Will have Justice . :twocents:

 

[otto]

I am not asking anyone to repeat a statement made in July, nor do I feel that a comment made several months ago is untrue.

But out of all the family members impacted by this horrible crime, I find it unusual that not one of has come forward to demand answers, or to indicate any dissatisfaction with how the investigation has gone to date. JMO

It's quite possible that the families of the victims are thankful for the investigative efforts. Maybe they should release a statement expressing their appreciation for everything that has been done, and is being done, to identify the person responsible for the murders of their children.

That is, why assume that anyone is dissatisfied with the investigation?

 

[Bootsctr]

BBM

How, indeed?

It seems impossible, and yet it happened. I believe this was carefully planned, and I also think there has been a heck of a cover-up going on by the responsible party/parties. JMO.

I do not rule this out as a possibility either. Very interested in girlfriend of hypothetical family member possible involvement in above-mentioned hypothetical situation. If more than one/two, possibly three or four, somebody's gotta break. Or local LE is very aware of plot and cover-up and LE being personal with one side of family is not a positive IMO. Arrest could be telling in that LE "knows" who killed the girls but cannot prove it. LE knows both sides of family could be involved in hypothetical plot, but in being friends with the "good" family, know that if said hypothetical person confessed the community would be satisfied and not press for deeper answers. IMO, hypothetical person had motive and means and that would be sooooo easy for LE. Would not even have to have a trial. That, my friends, is not justice for Lyric and Elizabeth!

 

[roseofsharon]

We-ull, is he saying it is unique for a crime to occur without any
evidence? And "very" unique for a crime to occur without even a shred of
evidence?

Fact is Smock is speaking in "metaphors". :banghead: Can't he speak in plain ordinary language (English) for a change?

Very unique might involve a ufo!

I know it's none of my business, but I would still like to know how the police chief of Evansdale effectively carries out his duties as the chief, when he is also the fire chief in Evansdale ..... (a retired fire chief and rehired). Are both positions held on a part-time basis?

What are the circumstances regarding this situation or is this opening Pandora's box. :twocents:

OT - maybe not!

IMO

 

[Marilynilpa]

Let's take the example of Austin Sigg. Leading up to the abduction/murder of Jessica Ridgeway, there were a number of usual activities and criminal acts. He was known to play hide and seek in the evening with the 11-12 year old girls that played soccer. Who knows what sort of grooming he was doing with the girls at that time. We have his interest in and mortician work. We know that his mother identified problems (don't know all the details) and that Sigg had psychological counselling. There was an attempted abduction months earlier in a park. He was frightened when the woman fought back and he ran away. We have the mutilated cat that was left behind the owners home - near Sigg's home. Finally, we have the abduction, murder and dismemberment of Jessica. I haven't followed the case closely since the arrest, but I suspect that there is a long trail of "connect the dots" between the time that Sigg's behavior first caused concerns and the murder of Jessica. Furthermore, it has long been understood that serial murderers often start with torturing animals.

No one starts their criminal career with the abduction and murder of two victims.

Thanks for that example. It's quite applicable to this case, IMO.

And IMO you're right - there is probably a trail of other criminal and/or questionable acts by the perp leading up to the abduction/murder of the girls. Sometimes the dots aren't connected until after an arrest is made.

 

[Bootsctr]

Thank you for your thoughtful post. I completely understand your thoughts...however I wonder how the community would feel if it didn't turn out to be the "Cook-Morrisey" side of the family who was found to have the connection.

This whole scenario is hypothetical so it's hard to say what could happen down the road. What if it ends up being one of Drew's or Heather's close friends who volunteered lots of hours doing the renovation? Will people still want to go there if a lot of the work was done by suspect #1? I don't know...it's all chilling to me.

LE has said this person walks among them.

I just really feel as if they have the cart before the horse on this whole memorial/fundraising/donation freight train. I just hope it doesn't get halfway done and some huge break comes in the case and the island is left as a huge eyesore because no one wants to donate anymore.

Hopefully people would still feel for the girls and finish the renovation...as it is FOR THEM. It's not meant to be some sort of "interstate attraction" as people pass by on I-380. Hopefully someone gets it under control and ensure's it's completed tastefully and respectfully for the girls and serves the original purpose...to memorialize the girls.

:facepalm: This is my worst fear! The family may definitely have repercussion if this is the case. Nobody likes to be made a fool of, and if an entire community feels as if they have been the butt of a cruel hoax, then . . . I don't know.

 

[threecrazykids]

The family has publicly stated, within a few days of the abduction, that they are waiting for answers. They're still waiting. Do they need to repeat that statement for people to believe that it is true?[/QUOTE]

IMO...uh, yeah they do.

They have no problems going out in public promoting fundraisers, concerts, donations...I DO expect them to at least mention somewhere along the way that they want answers and justice brought to the people who killed their daughter.

I don't know about anyone else, but there certainly doesn't seem to be too many people on this board that are convinced that this family REALLY wants to find who did this and bring them to justice.

One mention of wanting answers within days of their abduction does NOT equate to the parents continuing to pursue answers and justice.

If they have time to promote the memorial, they have time to remind and ask people to continue to come forward with any possible leads, answers, etc.

They CHOOSE the content of their PR appearances, and no mention of the pursuit of justice in all their donation requests concerns me.

 

[Marilynilpa]

It's quite possible that the families of the victims are thankful for the investigative efforts. Maybe they should release a statement expressing their appreciation for everything that has been done, and is being done, to identify the person responsible for the murders of their children.

That is, why assume that anyone is dissatisfied with the investigation?

If my daughter and niece were abducted from a small town in broad daylight, found dead five months later, no arrest has been made and a lead LE official is saying he is hopeful, but not certain, that the case would be "resolved", I would be dissatisfied. And I would make sure everyone knew it.

That is why I assume at least one member of Lyric/Lizzie's family would feel that kind of dissatisfaction, too. JMO

 

[Marilynilpa]

WITH all my heart the Girl's will have justice. We will find who destroyed two beautiful girl's for their own self gratifacation.God will not let this perp go unpunished it take's time and yes a lot of thing's were bloched but that does not mean they get away with it . I believe we will see justice done we just have to be patient and pray for answer's The truth will come out the girl's Will have Justice . :twocents:

Your posts are always so sweet and positive. Thanks for sharing them with us!

 

[Bootsctr]

Great Post!

I hope I am understanding correctly, and I am responding to what I BELIEVE you are saying...

LE and the Judicial System in general are obligated to uphold The Constitution. If someone is suspected as being responsible for the death of another person, whether intentional, accidental, or somewhere in between, I would expect them to pursue an investigation, apprehend, and prosecute that person for involvement in the murder. I would hope (and would question the entire structure of the Judicial System if this is what has occured) that the responsible person would not be given a stiffer sentence for a lesser unrelated offense to "save face" or that LE would support a distraction of enormous proportions for a crime to be "swept under the rug".

Great theory (again, if I understand it correctly), but I don't see how it would be legal to do this. Hypothetically, if a person is suspected of committing Murder and faces Life in Prison, I don't see how he/she can legally have 300 years added to a 5 year sentence for an already exisiting charge of Robbery or other crime, just to avoid being charged with Murder. There are other options for a Murder charge to avoid a Life or lengthy sentence, like Manslaughter, Attempted Murder, varying degrees of the Murder charge, etc.

:tyou: You definitely got the gist of what I was trying to say, and you said it so much more eloquently than I could in a million years! Yes, your answer is exactly what I needed to see in writing!!!

 

[Bootsctr]

When Morgan Harrington was abducted/murdered, her mother said: No one starts their criminal career with an abduction/murder. DNA was matched to an earlier assault on a woman, so her mother was right. It makes sense, as well.
There has been no arrest in either case. Because Morgan's father is a medical doctor and her mother is a nurse, no one would ever suggest that Morgan's parents had something to do with her murder. If her parents were drug addicts, people would suggest that they were connected with the murder ... but that would be a wild, unsupported connection.

Here we have a double abduction/murder. No one starts their criminal career with a double abduction/murder. Therefore, the person that did this must have prior criminal acts. That does not mean that the murderer has a criminal record.

The person responsible for abducting and murdering the children had a reason to be in Evansdale on July 13. That person lives in Evansdale, lives in the surrounding areas, or is familiar with Evansdale and surrounding areas due to having spent time there in the past.

All this talk about trying to connect the murderer with the family bewilders me. First, fingers were pointed at Dan because he is a drug addict. Misty fell under that same umbrella. Today, given that there is some criticism about the planning of the memorial, we have fingers pointed at Drew and his tree business. It's understandable that there is frustration due to the fact that there is no identifiable suspect, but pointing fingers at the victims - simply because they are easy targets - doesn't make sense. The family members are not considered suspects because they don't fit with the facts of the abduction murder.

Smock made a media statement on April 11, 2013, warning the community that strangers are dangerous, citing the abduction/murder of Lyric and Elizabeth as an example of how "stranger danger" can even happen in Evansdale. We may not see another abduction/murder of two children in Evansdale this coming summer, but I expect that there will be another abduction/murder by the perp. It could be 100 miles away, it could be 20 miles away, but I do think that it will happen again. It may happen to a teenager where there is an assumption that the teen is a runaway ... meaning the investigation will not be as thorough. This perp knows what he's doing and will most likely mix it up next time to avoid detection and avoid being connected with this abduction/murder (in the event that there is an arrest).

As always otto, thank you for your amazing post. I have highlighted and underlined the part of your post I wanted to address. Didn't want to snip any of it because of your on-spot points you made in your post.

Personally, I am not pointing a finger at any of the family members. I think there is a LINK somewhere between the abductor and the victims. I do not think the link comes from Dan and Misty or a drug connection. I do, however, feel that since the abduction happened on Elizabeth's stomping grounds, Elizabeth was the target and her comings and goings were well known to this perp. I think the link could be from the Collins' church or it could be through some personal connection with Drew's work. It has been said that Lizzie often accompanied her dad with him on his jobs. He is self-employed. It is highly likely he had contact with others in a similar business as his. If he cut down a tree in someone's yard and they wanted it replaced, he probably could refer them where to purchase a good tree thus leading me to think there could be a link to the tree farm near 7-Bridges or the son's landscaping business. I don't know. I can't put my finger on it. I just feel there is a connection somewhere that LE could be missing. Maybe it was the person next door like BTK.

 

[otto]

IMO...uh, yeah they do.

They have no problems going out in public promoting fundraisers, concerts, donations...I DO expect them to at least mention somewhere along the way that they want answers and justice brought to the people who killed their daughter.

I don't know about anyone else, but there certainly doesn't seem to be too many people on this board that are convinced that this family REALLY wants to find who did this and bring them to justice.

One mention of wanting answers within days of their abduction does NOT equate to the parents continuing to pursue answers and justice.

If they have time to promote the memorial, they have time to remind and ask people to continue to come forward with any possible leads, answers, etc.

They CHOOSE the content of their PR appearances, and no mention of the pursuit of justice in all their donation requests concerns me.

I'm stunned.

How could anyone believe that the family of a murder victim is not interested in seeing the arrest and successful prosecution of the person responsible?

 

[Bootsctr]

As far as I'm concerned this investigation was botched from day one. LE assumed way too much. The thought of asking an entire community for volunteers to comb the assumed area where the girls were missing is absolutely ridiculous. Panic set in, cooler heads were needed to assess the situation. Sadly, I think the window of opportunity to catch this perp has passed.

Respectfully, I disagree. An area as large as from the Collins' home to Meyers Lake is a very large area and LE could not control all aspects of that area. I understand Meyers Lake was closed for a period of time 24 hours ? perhaps, but again a very large area to control. I think LE and the community did exactly what I would want them to do if I had a child was missing. They searched for the girls, even by air. I do not think the window of opportunity has passed to catch this creep. I do think it will take time, just hopefully not before he kills again.

 

[otto]

If my daughter and niece were abducted from a small town in broad daylight, found dead five months later, no arrest has been made and a lead LE official is saying he is hopeful, but not certain, that the case would be "resolved", I would be dissatisfied. And I would make sure everyone knew it.

That is why I assume at least one member of Lyric/Lizzie's family would feel that kind of dissatisfaction, too. JMO

The families have experienced a huge loss and they are probably doing everything that they can do to survive and heal from their loss. Why make additional demands on those families and expect that they entertain the public by displaying the depths of their loss in the media? I find that bizarre.

 

[jordynsmommy529]

Just wanted too say hi too everyone and let them no iam often a guest lurker on here!!( always forget to log in) Iam new to liz and lyrics thread but not too there case!! Hoping and praying for justice.
R.I.P angels!!!

 

[georger]

The families have experienced a huge loss and they are probably doing everything that they can do to survive and heal from their loss. Why make additional demands on those families and expect that they entertain the public by displaying the depths of their loss in the media? I find that bizarre.

NOBODY!!!!!:furious: is suggesting they *entertain*? *the public*?

What public is asking to be "entertained" in this horrific matter??

Moreover, we do not know that family have not expressed their
frustrations to LE, privately - now do we. ? :seeya:

As a member of the public "I" certainly am not asking to be "entertained"!
Nor, do I come here to be: "entertained"? !

 

[otto]

As always otto, thank you for your amazing post. I have highlighted and underlined the part of your post I wanted to address. Didn't want to snip any of it because of your on-spot points you made in your post.

Personally, I am not pointing a finger at any of the family members. I think there is a LINK somewhere between the abductor and the victims. I do not think the link comes from Dan and Misty or a drug connection. I do, however, feel that since the abduction happened on Elizabeth's stomping grounds, Elizabeth was the target and her comings and goings were well known to this perp. I think the link could be from the Collins' church or it could be through some personal connection with Drew's work. It has been said that Lizzie often accompanied her dad with him on his jobs. He is self-employed. It is highly likely he had contact with others in a similar business as his. If he cut down a tree in someone's yard and they wanted it replaced, he probably could refer them where to purchase a good tree thus leading me to think there could be a link to the tree farm near 7-Bridges or the son's landscaping business. I don't know. I can't put my finger on it. I just feel there is a connection somewhere that LE could be missing. Maybe it was the person next door like BTK.

Based on what we know, it seems equally possible that the person responsible was a transient worker repairing the highway or a tree planter. He could be a teacher, a banker, a church member (eg: BTK). It could be anyone. Evansdale is a small town, so it's possible that the person responsible has had some contact with one member of the large, extended families of one of the victims.

We know the names of the victims and their families, but I don't think that is a good reason to suspect that the murderer has a connection to any of those people. Knowing the names and habits of the victim's families appears to be the only reason for trying to connect the murderer to the family. If the parents were doctors and nurses, this would not be happening. The murderer would instead be recognized as such a disgusting person that he could not have any connection to the victim's families.

The murder/abduction of Tori Stafford should serve as an awareness that parental bad habits does not mean that there is a connection between the murder and the parent.

 

[Marilynilpa]

The families have experienced a huge loss and they are probably doing everything that they can do to survive and heal from their loss. Why make additional demands on those families and expect that they entertain the public by displaying the depths of their loss in the media? I find that bizarre.

otto, I fear you are deliberately misconstruing my post. I did not say anything about expecting or demanding the families to entertain the public in any way.

I simply feel that everyone in the family may not be as satisfied by what has taken place to date as Heather is. JMO. And if so, I wish that person/persons would speak up and demand some answers.

 

[otto]

otto, I fear you are deliberately misconstruing my post. I did not say anything about expecting or demanding the families to entertain the public in any way.

I simply feel that everyone in the family may not be as satisfied by what has taken place to date as Heather is. JMO. And if so, I wish that person/persons would speak up and demand some answers.

I think it's equally possible that the family is very thankful for the efforts of the investigative team. I don't understand why anyone would want, or expect, the family to step forward and complain about the investigation.

Haven't they said that they are thankful and appreciative of everything the police and community have done to help?

 

[Marilynilpa]

Based on what we know, it seems equally possible that the person responsible was a transient worker repairing the highway or a tree planter. He could be a teacher, a banker, a church member (eg: BTK). It could be anyone. Evansdale is a small town, so it's possible that the person responsible has had some contact with one member of the large, extended families of one of the victims.

We know the names of the victims and their families, but I don't think that is a good reason to suspect that the murderer has a connection to any of those people. Knowing the names and habits of the victim's families appears to be the only reason for trying to connect the murderer to the family. If the parents were doctors and nurses, this would not be happening. The murderer would instead be recognized as such a disgusting person that he could not have any connection to the victim's families.

The murder/abduction of Tori Stafford should serve as an awareness that parental bad habits does not mean that there is a connection between the murder and the parent.

BBM

But aren't you also aware of cases where parental bad habits DID have a direct connection to a child's murder? If you need examples, I will provide them, but I feel you are probably aware of such cases yourself.

It isn't drug usage of any particular party that raises questions in my mind - it is the drug culture and all it entails that is in the background of this case. It is hard to completely ignore it, whether the parents are doctors, teachers, or fast food workers. JMO.