IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #30

[Bootsctr]

O/T - Pipe Bomb/today/Cedar Falls!!! when will this madness end??? Be sure to read comment!!!

http://cedarfalls.patch.com/article...orhood-cordoned-off?ncid=newsltuspatc00000003

snipped:
Police said they discovered a pipe bomb in the area of the 2300 block of Royal Drive Tuesday.
The area has been cordoned off. Police said a day care center is on lock-down and nearby Peet Junior High School is on standby.
The Waterloo Police Department bomb squad as well as Cedar Falls and University of Northern Iowa police have been dispatched.
snipped

Oh my! :facepalm: And the airport shut down too!! Evil people need to die!

 

[threecrazykids]

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-07-23/missing-girls-iowa-polygraph/56435534/1

SBM
The couple's temporary lack of cooperation with police caused friction with Heather and Drew Collins, Elizabeth's parents.

A spokesman for the Collins' family, Craig Ceilly, emphasized that Heather and Drew Collins have been "cooperating 300 percent from day one" with investigators as they live through what he called their worst nightmare.

"Anything they can do to help they will do and they are doing willingly. I cannot speak for Dan and Misty," he said. "I don't know what they are doing. I don't have a clue, nor do Heather and Drew. They don't want to know.

Why am I continually seeing this pattern of "I don't want to know" in all of these interviews in regards to Heather?

She doesn't want to know what happened to Elizabeth in her final moments, she doesn't want to know who killed her daughter, just to know that person has been caught, and she doesn't want to know what's going on with her SISTER when it comes to the investigative piece of 2 little girls in this family being abducted (and subsequently murdered).


This whole "put the blinders on to anything and everything in this investigation" is very compelling to me.

If it was me, and my sister wasn't cooperating, I'd be in her face wondering what the hell was going on. I'd be asking her what she's hiding, why she got a lawyer, etc. I certainly would want to know.

 

[Marilynilpa]

I periodically check the FB pages of various people associated with Lyric and Lizzie, and there is one man who's FB seems to have disappeared. I swear I saw it yesterday, and now nothing.

I wonder if that means anything? I've checked the Who's In Jail website and he isn't there.

This person was associated with Misty when the girls first went missing. Initials are J W. I don't think I can give his full name since he is not a suspect in this case.

It's probably nothing . . .

 

[threecrazykids]

Interesting...

96% of sex crimes committed are by people NOT on the registry.
http://www.rethinking.org.nz/images/newsletter PDF/Issue 78/C 02 watchedpot.pdf

www.endsexcrime.org/theproof.html#recidivism
-Reoffense rates are in the single digits and were BEFORE the registry even existed.

Yet, the focus for the family continues to be sex offenders (who by the way were also "cleared" by LE).

I want to know what makes this family believe that a sex offender is involved. Are they referring to someone NOT on the registry? That's what doesn't make sense to me...LE said they'd cleared everyone on the registry, so do they not trust LE?

Because if they think it's an offender who is NOT on the registry their efforts of enhancing laws and requirements for people who are ON the registry are futile.

If they want to locate the sex offender who did this, they'd need to look at everyone in town who is NOT on the registry...:facepalm:

Adding an interesting snippet of the link:
Furthermore, offenders without prior sexual offense
convictions commit the majority of sexual offenses. In the current study, only
about 4% of those arrested for a sexual offense had a prior sexual offense
conviction. This finding is significant because it illustrates the limited reach of the
sex offender registry. That is, approximately 96% of offenders arrested for sexual
offenses have no prior sexual offense convictions and, thus, would not have been
on a sex offender registry at the time of the offense.
Second, registration and community notification laws are based on the false
assumption that strangers commit most sexual offenses. However, the research
REGISTRATION AND NOTIFICATION 297
unequivocally finds that sex offenders are more likely to victimize family members,
intimate partners, or acquaintances.

 

[carbuff]

I periodically check the FB pages of various people associated with Lyric and Lizzie, and there is one man who's FB seems to have disappeared. I swear I saw it yesterday, and now nothing.

I wonder if that means anything? I've checked the Who's In Jail website and he isn't there.

This person was associated with Misty when the girls first went missing. Initials are J W. I don't think I can give his full name since he is not a suspect in this case.

It's probably nothing . . .

Check again later. Facebook pages sometimes randomly go missing and then reappear a couple of hours later...

 

[Marilynilpa]

Interesting...

96% of sex crimes committed are by people NOT on the registry.
http://www.rethinking.org.nz/images/newsletter PDF/Issue 78/C 02 watchedpot.pdf

www.endsexcrime.org/theproof.html#recidivism
-Reoffense rates are in the single digits and were BEFORE the registry even existed.

Yet, the focus for the family continues to be sex offenders (who by the way were also "cleared" by LE).

I want to know what makes this family believe that a sex offender is involved. Are they referring to someone NOT on the registry? That's what doesn't make sense to me...LE said they'd cleared everyone on the registry, so do they not trust LE?

Because if they think it's an offender who is NOT on the registry their efforts of enhancing laws and requirements for people who are ON the registry are futile.

If they want to locate the sex offender who did this, they'd need to look at everyone in town who is NOT on the registry...:facepalm:

I agree with you, and I'm not sure why Drew has focused on this project. Maybe he just needs to feel he is contributing something positive.

ETA: Maybe it is easier for them to accept that this was the work of a registered sex offender rather than a friend or acquaintance??

 

[Marilynilpa]

Check again later. Facebook pages sometimes randomly go missing and then reappear a couple of hours later...

That's happened to me before, so I'll keep checking.

 

[foxbluff]

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-07-23/missing-girls-iowa-polygraph/56435534/1

SBM
The couple's temporary lack of cooperation with police caused friction with Heather and Drew Collins, Elizabeth's parents.

A spokesman for the Collins' family, Craig Ceilly, emphasized that Heather and Drew Collins have been "cooperating 300 percent from day one" with investigators as they live through what he called their worst nightmare.

"Anything they can do to help they will do and they are doing willingly. I cannot speak for Dan and Misty," he said. "I don't know what they are doing. I don't have a clue, nor do Heather and Drew. They don't want to know.

Why am I continually seeing this pattern of "I don't want to know" in all of these interviews in regards to Heather?

She doesn't want to know what happened to Elizabeth in her final moments, she doesn't want to know who killed her daughter, just to know that person has been caught, and she doesn't want to know what's going on with her SISTER when it comes to the investigative piece of 2 little girls in this family being abducted (and subsequently murdered).


This whole "put the blinders on to anything and everything in this investigation" is very compelling to me.

If it was me, and my sister wasn't cooperating, I'd be in her face wondering what the hell was going on. I'd be asking her what she's hiding, why she got a lawyer, etc. I certainly would want to know.

Ty 3cks... another great post imo.

Underlined by Fox - I simply couldn't agree more.

And all the "I don't want to know" and "I have already forgiven you" and "perhaps something bad happened to you in the past" type statements which imo somewhat "down-play" this unspeakable crime... well, I don't even know how to make my point... could it be that she already knows who did it (or suspects she knows) and for the identity of that person to come out would be as unbearable as the loss she has already suffered? IDK...

My fellow peeps here might never forgive me for my thoughts. The best I can hope for is that HC and her loving God will...

 

[threecrazykids]

I agree with you, and I'm not sure why Drew has focused on this project. Maybe he just needs to feel he is contributing something positive.

ETA: Maybe it is easier for them to accept that this was the work of a registered sex offender rather than a friend or acquaintance??

I think as a parent I can understand why they would choose to think that way...but it also makes me wonder why, when they are such good friends with Smock, that he wouldn't believe them when they were told all registered offenders were cleared.

Maybe he feels he's contributing to society by doing it? I don't know.

 

[carbuff]

Ty 3cks... another great post imo.

Underlined by Fox - I simply couldn't agree more.

And all the "I don't want to know" and "I have already forgiven you" and "perhaps something bad happened to you in the past" type statements which imo somewhat "down-play" this unspeakable crime... well, I don't even know how to make my point... could it be that she already knows who did it (or suspects she knows) and for the identity of that person to come out would be as unbearable as the loss she has already suffered? IDK...

My fellow peeps here might never forgive me for my thoughts. The best I can hope for is that HC and her loving God will...

A lot of things kind of lead in that direction, don't they?

I remember there was a case years ago where a teenage boy killed his younger brother, and his mother covered it up, and when they asked why, she said words to the effect that if she turned him in, she lost two sons, but if she turned a blind eye, she still had one. It kind of stuck with me. (Note, not suggesting that any siblings had a role in this!)

 

[foxbluff]

I agree with you, and I'm not sure why Drew has focused on this project. Maybe he just needs to feel he is contributing something positive.

ETA: Maybe it is easier for them to accept that this was the work of a registered sex offender rather than a friend or acquaintance??

Bingo !! Hopefully there is no red herring involved.

 

[threecrazykids]

Ty 3cks... another great post imo.

Underlined by Fox - I simply couldn't agree more.

And all the "I don't want to know" and "I have already forgiven you" and "perhaps something bad happened to you in the past" type statements which imo somewhat "down-play" this unspeakable crime... well, I don't even know how to make my point... could it be that she already knows who did it (or suspects she knows) and for the identity of that person to come out would be as unbearable as the loss she has already suffered? IDK...

My fellow peeps here might never forgive me for my thoughts. The best I can hope for is that HC and her loving God will...

I feel for her too...I pray for everyone in this family every night. That doesn't mean I understand certain behaviors.

 

[Marilynilpa]

Ty 3cks... another great post imo.

Underlined by Fox - I simply couldn't agree more.

And all the "I don't want to know" and "I have already forgiven you" and "perhaps something bad happened to you in the past" type statements which imo somewhat "down-play" this unspeakable crime... well, I don't even know how to make my point... could it be that she already knows who did it (or suspects she knows) and for the identity of that person to come out would be as unbearable as the loss she has already suffered? IDK...

My fellow peeps here might never forgive me for my thoughts. The best I can hope for is that HC and her loving God will...

BBM

You could be right about this. JMO

 

[foxbluff]

I really question this the most. Heather may be coping in her own way by going to church and reading the Bible, fine. Drew may have his own way, okay. But not going to counseling together with your own children...[/quote]
##############################################################

I was not in the least bit surprised to read some time ago that the Collins family was in therapy and, though I had assumed as much, was relieved to have it confirmed.

bbm - I was stunned to read recently that HC wasn't in therapy w/her family. (I imagine that even close playmates of the victims have been in therapy!)

Even though HC may believe that her God is all the therapy she requires, why wouldn't she attend sessions to support her children?

In other words, it is frequently the mother who spends the most time w/the children and thus would recognize changes in their behavior/moods more so than the father... the mother who would be better able to guide the therapist as to what he/she might need to know about current homelife... and even to help translate what the children are trying to express or not expressing. jmo

 

[foxbluff]

A lot of things kind of lead in that direction, don't they?

I remember there was a case years ago where a teenage boy killed his younger brother, and his mother covered it up, and when they asked why, she said words to the effect that if she turned him in, she lost two sons, but if she turned a blind eye, she still had one. It kind of stuck with me. (Note, not suggesting that any siblings had a role in this!)

Yes, good example of why one might not want a killer exposed and brought to justice. And, like you, I'm not suggesting that a sibling had a role in this. I'm not even suggesting that anybody in subj family was directly responsible.

I've been trying to come up with a scenario whereby parents might "feel responsible" in having brought a person of questionable character into their home... a connection w/this person that would ruin their public reputation and scar the futures of their other children. Yeah, I know, that's a reach...

 

[carbuff]

Yes, good example of why one might not want a killer exposed and brought to justice. And, like you, I'm not suggesting that a sibling had a role in this. I'm not even suggesting that anybody in subj family was directly responsible.

I've been trying to come up with a scenario whereby parents might "feel responsible" in having brought a person of questionable character into their home... a connection w/this person that would ruin their public reputation and scar the futures of their other children. Yeah, I know, that's a reach...

It's certainly possible, though.

It's also possible that Heather is afraid someone in her life did it, but is mistaken.

Or that it stems from general guilt -- like her comment about Drew's guilt because he couldn't protect his daughter. I can see how that would really eat at both of them, and what they imagine is probably as bad as the facts.

 

[SapphireSteel]

First off, what a surprise to come back to this thread after a couple of weeks to find so much discussion. I believe in all of the cases I've followed this one has stayed active the longest for such a cold case. Good work all!

Second, I know we can't compare cases but I am doing it anyways. I really wish LE would do what they did in Jessica's case and focus on clearing the family. LE cleared Jessica's parents within the first couple of days and made it quite clear that they were not involved. It would be nice if they could clear family here. It is so hard to look at anyone else when statistically speaking, family is the most likely perp.

This case has always had an interesting dynamic since it was cousins that went missing. The primary focus of suspicion has always seemed to land on Dan and Misty, mostly Dan, yet he seems to have had the least parental role in raising Lyric. Wilma, Drew, Heather and even Misty were Lyric's caretakers.

I'll admit I always thought SapphireSteel was a bit crazy when she said "follow the money" but now that the fundraising is still going on and a ginormous memorial is being erected at undoubtedly extreme costs, I'm beginning to think she is onto something. But I do not think Dan or Misty was involved, so I think we differ there.

I lost track of my train of thought, the littles are being quite needy this morning.

Erm...thanks for that?

People always think I'm a bit crazy, until I'm right.

Personally I've been thinking y'all are crazier...the evidence just doesn't point to a random sex offender, never has.

:cow:

 

[Marilynilpa]

Erm...thanks for that?

People always think I'm a bit crazy, until I'm right.

Personally I've been thinking y'all are crazier...the evidence just doesn't point to a random sex offender, never has.

:cow:

We've agreed on this for a long time.

I have never been able to see any randomness in what happened to Lyric and Lizzie. JMO.

ETA: I believe this was a crime committed for personal gain - not necessarily financial gain, although that might be a component. Someone benefited in some way, IMO.

 

[SapphireSteel]

We've agreed on this for a long time.

I have never been able to see any randomness in what happened to Lyric and Lizzie. JMO.

The hallmark of this crime is planning.

No one has yet been able to explain how the "random" just so happened to know two little girls would cycle into his trap, only minutes after he laid it?

If he'd followed them either routinely or on that day, two things had to have happened

1. he would have been caught on cctv
2, he would be pursuing them, not waiting for them.

This perp was like a spider waiting for a fly.

I don't think I recall any perp ever who just set up kidnapping shop in some random, quite out of the way place and expected something he wanted would just walk into it, all unseen, in the middle of town, within 5 minutes.

:cow:

 

[carbuff]

The kind of serial rapist or killer who stalks his prey opportunistically is very good at knowing where cameras are, and avoiding them. They're very good at knowing the kinds of places where they will find the kind of prey they want and the kinds of places that will suit their needs.

It's not a big step to think that in a small town on a hot summer day, a park might be a good place to find kids who aren't being closely supervised. It wouldn't take much scouting on his part to identify that place where the path disappears into the trees, and know he could wait there undetected. Maybe he sits there eating his lunch or something. If nobody showed up, fine, he's not out anything. He tries again another time. Or he gets lucky and gets two for one.

Do I think this is what happened? No, it's not very likely. But I don't see any evidence to rule it out, either.