IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #32

[SapphireSteel]

Your might be right, but I disagree that Iowa is the home of meth. Meth is everywhere.

No it's not.

Meth for commercial purposes began in Iowa at the hands of Tom Arnold's sister. It's been well documented and accepted that Iowa is some very big trouble, socially and economically, due to Meth.

I can't get meth where I live, for example - and I don't know of anyone who can, or anyone who manufactures, mainly because pseudoephedrine was banned here years ago - it's still sold in Iowa, without prescription.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Here is a look at the 10 states with the highest number of meth lab busts.

Missouri 2,096
Tennessee 1,687
Indiana 1,437
Kentucky 1,188
Oklahoma with 902
Illinois 584
Iowa 382
Michigan 352
North Carolina 340
South Carolina 265

http://www.kshb.com/dpp/news/national/the-10-states-with-the-most-meth-lab-busts

So it looks like Iowa is not #1 regarding meth in the U.S.

You know that "meth labs" are a thing of the past right?

"Shake and Bake" is cheaper, easier and safer.

This explains the reduction in the meth lab busts - meth labs are now "old fashioned". A tweaker was arrested for whipping up her batch in Kmart, using products off the shelf. :banghead:

 

[Marilynilpa]

You know that "meth labs" are a thing of the past right?

"Shake and Bake" is cheaper, easier and safer.

This explains the reduction in the meth lab busts - meth labs are now "old fashioned". A tweaker was arrested for whipping up her batch in Kmart, using products off the shelf. :banghead:

The one pot method of meth production, also know as shake and bake labs, is gaining popularity among addicts. With this method, criminals can make small batches of meth using a plastic soda bottle. All meth production puts the public in danger.

http://www.ncdoj.gov/Top-Issues/Fighting-Crime/Stop-Meth.aspx

I think the "shake and bake" method is used mainly for personal usage since a small amount is made, whereas meth labs are still producing large quantities to be sold.

 

[SapphireSteel]

The one pot method of meth production, also know as shake and bake labs, is gaining popularity among addicts. With this method, criminals can make small batches of meth using a plastic soda bottle. All meth production puts the public in danger.

http://www.ncdoj.gov/Top-Issues/Fighting-Crime/Stop-Meth.aspx

I think the "shake and bake" method is used mainly for personal usage since a small amount is made, whereas meth labs are still producing large quantities to be sold.

Sadly, this is no longer the case.

Meth cases are mounting in the Midlands. On Monday, we told you about a Lexington County couple arrested and charged for cooking meth inside soda bottles at their home.

It's not a new trick, but it's becoming more common.

"It can be produced almost anywhere now it's very mobile," said Lexington County Sheriff James Metts.

Metts fights a new kind of battle meth these days. His department, along with others across the state, are seeing fewer of the old-school labs that you'd find in out buildings and mobile homes, and more soda bottles used for what's called "shake and bake" meth.

You might find the ingredients under your sink or in your garage. All you do is combine them in a plastic bottle that can then be transported in a trunk, backpack, or even your pants.

The convenience has made it popular. SLED reports an astounding spike. In 2012, the number of labs found in South Carolina jumped 330 percent from the previous year. This year is on track to be just as bad. sbm

And if you think it's only happening out in the country, one lab was recently busted in Richland County not far from USC's baseball field.

"It is moving now out of the rural areas into almost anywhere because of the way it's produced," said Metts.


http://www.wistv.com/story/22575548/shake-and-bake-meth-becoming-popular-method-to-produce-drug

 

[Marilynilpa]

No it's not.

Meth for commercial purposes began in Iowa at the hands of Tom Arnold's sister. It's been well documented and accepted that Iowa is some very big trouble, socially and economically, due to Meth.

I can't get meth where I live, for example - and I don't know of anyone who can, or anyone who manufactures, mainly because pseudoephedrine was banned here years ago - it's still sold in Iowa, without prescription.

BBM

I believe it's sold without a prescription everywhere in the U.S.

Missouri leads the country in meth lab busts:

snip

Experts blame the continued increase on the drug's addictiveness and the growing popularity of the meth-making shortcut known as "shake-and-bake," in which the drug is concocted quickly in a soda bottle. The method results in smaller labs, but more of them.

snip

Clandestine meth labs are most common in the Midwest and South. U.S. users who don't make the drug themselves get it from Mexico, but experts say the drug made in homemade labs is more addictive than the often-diluted product that crosses the border.

Missouri had been the nation's No. 1 meth-producing state every year from 2003 to 2009 until falling behind Tennessee for one year. In 2011, a single Missouri county had more busts than Texas, Florida and California combined. Jefferson County, which is near St. Louis, tallied 253 seizures; the three states had 219.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57383012/missouri-leads-spike-in-u.s-meth-lab-busts/

 

[Marilynilpa]

Sadly, this is no longer the case.

Meth cases are mounting in the Midlands. On Monday, we told you about a Lexington County couple arrested and charged for cooking meth inside soda bottles at their home.

It's not a new trick, but it's becoming more common.

"It can be produced almost anywhere now it's very mobile," said Lexington County Sheriff James Metts.

Metts fights a new kind of battle meth these days. His department, along with others across the state, are seeing fewer of the old-school labs that you'd find in out buildings and mobile homes, and more soda bottles used for what's called "shake and bake" meth.

You might find the ingredients under your sink or in your garage. All you do is combine them in a plastic bottle that can then be transported in a trunk, backpack, or even your pants.

The convenience has made it popular. SLED reports an astounding spike. In 2012, the number of labs found in South Carolina jumped 330 percent from the previous year. This year is on track to be just as bad. sbm

And if you think it's only happening out in the country, one lab was recently busted in Richland County not far from USC's baseball field.

"It is moving now out of the rural areas into almost anywhere because of the way it's produced," said Metts.


http://www.wistv.com/story/22575548/shake-and-bake-meth-becoming-popular-method-to-produce-drug

How does this support your claim that Iowa is the meth capitol?

Meth, created by whatever method, is pervasive throughout the U.S., especially in the midwest and the south. Iowa is just one of many states afflicted by this terrible drug.

 

[Foxfire]

Think about the similarities between the Dayton, IA, kidnappings and L & L's mysterious disappearance only 80 miles away. If this was MJ Klunders first abduction. I may be able to accept that it was only a tragic coincidence. With his history of deviant violent behavior against females, two of which were pairs, and obvious pre-plan, stalking, and abduction of Kathlynn & her 12 year old friend. It would be irresponsible, imo, to consider anyone else in L & L's abduction/murder...

'Reminiscent of Green River Serial Killer Gary Ridgeway's ruses, even after his victims knew that a predator was stalking & murdering prostitutes in Kings County, WA. GR would carry his kid along or his ruse was to offer 3 times the going price for a hooker; playing on their greed/need. GR knew the only price paid would be the victims live$..
He also admitted to killing one of his victims while his young son waited in the truck. When asked if he would have killed his son had the son realized what he was doing, his answer was yes...

http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/ne...cle_1042c3a8-c1fa-11e2-8e63-0019bb2963f4.html
IOWA CITY, Iowa (AP) — When Michael Klunder enticed two girls to enter his pickup truck near a rural Iowa school bus stop Monday, it was at least his third kidnapping in a long criminal history in which he was ordered to receive sex offender treatment starting as a teenager.

 

[Indy Anna]

Regardless of the motive for killing his first victim, whether fulfilling a fantasy or eliminating a witness... Once the threshold from fantasy to reality is crossed..that is the point of no return...imo.. The obvious question would be, 'when did he cross this threshold'?

Michael J. Klunder, seemed very compulsive in his need and desire to inflict pain and torture upon women/girls from a very early age. Imo, it was not the sex that was important to MJK, but the control and domination over them."

BBM
The one adult kidnap victim of Klunder put up a big fight (caught another driver's attention). She seemed a bit much for him to handle. Again, we don't know if MK had other victims - those who managed to escape and/or those who didn't survive - but one theory on why (IMO) MK is a potential suspect in the kidnapping and murder of L&L is that he wasn't successful in overpowering adult women, and so resorted to targeting children. Just speculating, but if that's the case, when he was successful in overpowering children and appeared to escape detection, he moved on to targeting teen girls.

Some big guys are just big wimps with very low self-esteem. The motive behind MK's desire for control may be that he felt self-conscious of the fact he was nothing but a big oaf.

 

[Marilynilpa]

Think about the similarities between the Dayton, IA, kidnappings and L & L's mysterious disappearance only 80 miles away. If this was MJ Klunders first abduction. I may be able to accept that it was only a tragic coincidence. With his history of deviant violent behavior against females and obvious pre-plan, stalking, and abduction of Kathlynn & her 12 year old friend. It would be irresponsible, imo, to consider anyone else in L & L's abduction/murder...

http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/ne...cle_1042c3a8-c1fa-11e2-8e63-0019bb2963f4.html
IOWA CITY, Iowa (AP) — When Michael Klunder enticed two girls to enter his pickup truck near a rural Iowa school bus stop Monday, it was at least his third kidnapping in a long criminal history in which he was ordered to receive sex offender treatment starting as a teenager.

But I'm not so sure he pre-planned this crime, and I've seen nothing to indicate he stalked D and/or Kathlynn. I feel this was a crime of opportunity - D and Kathlynn were just in the wrong place. JMO

I'll agree with you that he certainly has a violent history with women.

 

[Marilynilpa]

I think there are a lot of Michael Klunders out there.

Unfortunately, I think you're right. :stormingmad:

 

[Indy Anna]

But I'm not so sure he pre-planned this crime, and I've seen nothing to indicate he stalked D and/or Kathlynn. I feel this was a crime of opportunity - D and Kathlynn were just in the wrong place. JMO

I'll agree with you that he certainly has a violent history with women.

BBM
I have to agree with this. None of MK's crimes sound premeditated to me. I think he was opportunistic. That, IMO, supports the idea that there could have been more victims that either escaped or didn't survive - his methods were hit and miss.

 

[Foxfire]

BBM
I have to agree with this. None of MK's crimes sound premeditated to me. I think he was opportunistic. That, IMO, supports the idea that there could have been more victims that either escaped or didn't survive - his methods were hit and miss.

Premeditated and opportunistic can be intertwined; the uncontrollable urge to carry out a fantasy may cause a predator to seek out unsuspecting prey. Where else, and what time of day would a predator seek out a school student? What time of day and what day in the summertime would children be at a park without parents accompanying them? L & L were abducted on Friday the 13th of July...2012..TGIF..

Kathylynn and her friend's abduction was no accident or impulsive act, imo..
There were three different police jurisdictions used by MJK in their abduction. MJK brandished the hog euthanasia gun, and used the handy cable/zip ties, imo, for victim control/compliance.. Victim compliance is one of the first rules of prey...

Michael J. Klunder, had pre-planned the secluded hog confinement facility location/safe haven/ritual grounds, where Kathlynn Shepard, and her friend were taken after being kidnapped to carry out his plan.
Kathlynn and her friend, simply happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time; Dayton, Iowa, where this kind of thing just doesn't happen...
'The Silent Epidemic''... There are over 100,000+ missing persons in the USA-actual number unknown-FBI FDIC...

Dayton Police Dept Staff; Chief & two reserve officers...
Chief Dunbar joined the Dayton Police Department as a Reserve Officer in November 2010. Chief Dunbar was promoted to Chief of Police in September 2011 and graduated from the Iowa Law Enforcement Academy's 245th basic. Chief Dunbar also serves as an EMT for Dayton Rescue, and as the Assistant Fire Chief for the Dayton Fire Department.
http://www.daytonia.govoffice2.com/index.asp?Type=B_BASIC&SEC={6629425B-277E-44BB-8A40-BCFE9BDA04EE}

 

[Indy Anna]

Premeditated and opportunistic can be intertwined; the uncontrollable urge to carry out a fantasy may cause a predator to seek out unsuspecting prey. Where else, and what time of day would a predator seek out a school student? What time of day and what day in the summertime would children be at a park without parents accompanying them? L & L were abducted on Friday the 13th of July...2012..TGIF..

Kathylynn and her friend's abduction was no accident or impulsive act, imo..
There were three different police jurisdictions used by MJK in their abduction.
Michael J. Klunder, had pre-planned the hog confinement facility location where Kathlynn Shepard, and her friend were taken after being kidnapped to carry out his plan.
Kathlynn and her friend, simply happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time; Dayton, Iowa, where this kind of thing doesn't happen...
'The Silent Epidemic''... There are over 100,000+ missing persons in the USA-actual number unknown-FBI FDIC...

BBM
This was my line of thinking in saying MK's crimes were not premeditated. You're right ... there has to be some extent of planning in knowing what to do once the perp has a victim(s). But, I don't think MK had an obsession with anyone in particular whom he stalked until opportunity arose. He just staked out the places where opportunity would likely arise, and at the times when opportunity was at the highest. Yes, that MO would likely coincide with L & L's abduction. They were simply in the wrong place at the wrong time ... where and when their killer was looking for an opportunity to strike. :moo:

 

[StacyMarie83]

I have three daughters. This whole pageant thing is everything I did not want them to learn as young women. I wanted them to participate in sports and learn the values of fair play and be part of a team. I wanted them to understand that they are strong, capable women who can do anything a man can do and do not need to rely on their looks. Have you seen the prom dresses lately? MY GOD. How did we get here. I had a friend who's daugther is thirteen. She is a beautiful girl. She was in a skin tight dress falling a little below her butt. It was obscene. Her mother says "well she just has that beautiful figure". I suppose at 13 that is true, however, at 13 we don't need to see every curve on body. It is salacious. It is asking for unwanted attention for all the wrong reasons.

it doesn't sound like the attention was unwanted, that is a huge parenting problem!!!

I must chime in on this o/t post a little more though I must say, calling another female (no matter the age) salacious IS part of the problem. I don't care if she walked around naked---this is not the females fault. I have blonde hair, green eyes, 6'1 and natural 36 DD --- i was groped by a doctor i worked for b/c i wore "tight" sweaters. It's an invalid excuse for a sick, perverted deviant. I never wore a v-neck, i never wore anything snug (and if I wanted to, that should have been fine too) --- it was my , which look huge in anything i wear. Am I salacious b/c of this?! Was he okay to do this b/c he saw me as salacious?! NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Females judge other females harsher than any man, it needs to stop. I wouldn't let my daughter wear a mini-dress at the age of 13, but if she started sneaking out and changing I would hate for someone to call her salacious and then if she got raped it's be warranted b/c of what she wore.

Pageants are a whole other deal --- i am very against child pageants and the sexualization of children. I wouldn't be so mad if they weren't allowed to wear make-up and had to wear children clothing, but they don't.

 

[SapphireSteel]

How does this support your claim that Iowa is the meth capitol?

Meth, created by whatever method, is pervasive throughout the U.S., especially in the midwest and the south. Iowa is just one of many states afflicted by this terrible drug.

It was around this time that a nineteen-year-old named Lori Kaye Arnold did her first two lines of methamphetamine, on the kitchen table of her cabin outside of Ottumwa, Iowa. Meth was not a new drug; it had first been synthesized by a Japanese chemist nearly a century earlier. It had only recently fallen from favor as a legal prescription narcotic, and had previously been employed by long-haul truckers to keep them from wrecking their rigs on the Interstate, advertised in women’s magazines to weary housewives to increase their general perkiness, and prescribed to American GIs, as well as most of their allies and enemies, during World War II. As the legal market for meth had dwindled, however, a burgeoning illegal trade had emerged, built on a small coterie of professional suppliers in Southern California and a network of motorcycle gangs that distributed the drug elsewhere. This was how Arnold, the wife of a member of the Grim Reapers biker gang—and the sister, as it happens, of comedian Tom Arnold—got ahold of it. But it was her own innovations to this system in the late ’80s that transformed meth into a rural midwestern phenomenon. After first setting up Ottumwa as the premier heartland distribution hub for Californian meth, Arnold decided to borrow a page from Monsanto and better integrate her supply chain, building her own production facilities—the first midwestern meth lab—in Iowa.sbm...In this effort, the crumbled local agricultural economy turned out to be a boon. Falling tax revenues had left local law enforcement underfunded, understaffed, and unable to stop her.sbm. In 2004, law enforcement officials busted 1,370 meth labs in Arnold’s home state alone.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2009/0907.homans2.html

 

[SapphireSteel]

BBM
This was my line of thinking in saying MK's crimes were not premeditated. You're right ... there has to be some extent of planning in knowing what to do once the perp has a victim(s). But, I don't think MK had an obsession with anyone in particular whom he stalked until opportunity arose. He just staked out the places where opportunity would likely arise, and at the times when opportunity was at the highest. Yes, that MO would likely coincide with L & L's abduction. They were simply in the wrong place at the wrong time ... where and when their killer was looking for an opportunity to strike. :moo:

Whoever abducted L&L was waiting for them. It was planned. (ETA: if you accept the bikes weren't staged).

Note that a school bus stop is a likely place for a random predator to find youngsters on their own, a city lake during school holidays, not so much.

If Klunder is the perp he has taken a 180 swing in MO. He's gone from a compulsive, disorganised offender who hunts his prey, to an organised one who traps them.

Unlikely IMO.

 

[Marilynilpa]

I'm not sure I believe this, but . . .

“Virtuous Pedophiles” sounds like a contradiction in terms – but it is the title of a website. This website does not attempt to justify or excuse child molestation. The men who founded it, both of whom use pseudonyms for obvious reasons, are sexually attracted to children. Yet both assert that they have never sexually touched a child. They recognize that acting on their attraction would inevitably cause harm. Their website is dedicated to informing both the public at large and other people who are attracted to children that it is possible to have this attraction yet refrain from actually abusing children.

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/...iles-reasons-for-cautious-optimism/index.html

 

[SCHMAE]

It was around this time that a nineteen-year-old named Lori Kaye Arnold did her first two lines of methamphetamine, on the kitchen table of her cabin outside of Ottumwa, Iowa. Meth was not a new drug; it had first been synthesized by a Japanese chemist nearly a century earlier. It had only recently fallen from favor as a legal prescription narcotic, and had previously been employed by long-haul truckers to keep them from wrecking their rigs on the Interstate, advertised in women’s magazines to weary housewives to increase their general perkiness, and prescribed to American GIs, as well as most of their allies and enemies, during World War II. As the legal market for meth had dwindled, however, a burgeoning illegal trade had emerged, built on a small coterie of professional suppliers in Southern California and a network of motorcycle gangs that distributed the drug elsewhere. This was how Arnold, the wife of a member of the Grim Reapers biker gang—and the sister, as it happens, of comedian Tom Arnold—got ahold of it. But it was her own innovations to this system in the late ’80s that transformed meth into a rural midwestern phenomenon. After first setting up Ottumwa as the premier heartland distribution hub for Californian meth, Arnold decided to borrow a page from Monsanto and better integrate her supply chain, building her own production facilities—the first midwestern meth lab—in Iowa.sbm...In this effort, the crumbled local agricultural economy turned out to be a boon. Falling tax revenues had left local law enforcement underfunded, understaffed, and unable to stop her.sbm. In 2004, law enforcement officials busted 1,370 meth labs in Arnold’s home state alone.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2009/0907.homans2.html

I actually remember watching a dateline/primetime type show a few years ago saying Iowa was the meth capital and I was shocked because it seems like such a quiet state.

 

[SapphireSteel]

I actually remember watching a dateline/primetime type show a few years ago saying Iowa was the meth capital and I was shocked because it seems like such a quiet state.

Times are changing.

Even other Iowans are in denial (who can blame them) but the white picket fence small town America is pretty much gone.

 

[Marilynilpa]

It was around this time that a nineteen-year-old named Lori Kaye Arnold did her first two lines of methamphetamine, on the kitchen table of her cabin outside of Ottumwa, Iowa. Meth was not a new drug; it had first been synthesized by a Japanese chemist nearly a century earlier. It had only recently fallen from favor as a legal prescription narcotic, and had previously been employed by long-haul truckers to keep them from wrecking their rigs on the Interstate, advertised in women’s magazines to weary housewives to increase their general perkiness, and prescribed to American GIs, as well as most of their allies and enemies, during World War II. As the legal market for meth had dwindled, however, a burgeoning illegal trade had emerged, built on a small coterie of professional suppliers in Southern California and a network of motorcycle gangs that distributed the drug elsewhere. This was how Arnold, the wife of a member of the Grim Reapers biker gang—and the sister, as it happens, of comedian Tom Arnold—got ahold of it. But it was her own innovations to this system in the late ’80s that transformed meth into a rural midwestern phenomenon. After first setting up Ottumwa as the premier heartland distribution hub for Californian meth, Arnold decided to borrow a page from Monsanto and better integrate her supply chain, building her own production facilities—the first midwestern meth lab—in Iowa.sbm...In this effort, the crumbled local agricultural economy turned out to be a boon. Falling tax revenues had left local law enforcement underfunded, understaffed, and unable to stop her.sbm. In 2004, law enforcement officials busted 1,370 meth labs in Arnold’s home state alone.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2009/0907.homans2.html

But this doesn't mean that, in 2013, Iowa is still the "meth capitol."

I think it's obvious there are grave problems with meth in Iowa, but the articles I posted up-thread clearly indicate that there are several states in the U.S. with higher meth activity than Iowa.