IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #32

[alliemay]

I also do not think MK took Lyric and Elizabeth but in my opinion, I think they were followed, if they were in fact the intended target. If they were not the intended target then yes I feel the perp could have been waiting there for a child or children to show up, it makes me wonder about the day care center near Myers (which is no longer there), part of their activities were to take the children into the park for a walk. I have to wonder if it was something they did with the children every day and if they did this every day was it around the same time of day? If the perp was waiting then I feel that Lyric and Elizabeth were in the wrong place at the wrong time. For some reason my thoughts are that they were targeted and followed. IMO

 

[Marilynilpa]

I actually remember watching a dateline/primetime type show a few years ago saying Iowa was the meth capital and I was shocked because it seems like such a quiet state.

Maybe this was true a few years ago, but if you'll check out the links I posted up-thread, you'll see that the dubious honor of meth capital has belonged to Missouri for several years.

Meth labs may have originated in Iowa, but unfortunately other states have overtaken Iowa since the late 1980's when Lori Arnold reigned supreme.

 

[SapphireSteel]

It's not particularly relevant, as Klunder was not a meth user (that we know of).

 

[SapphireSteel]

I also do not think MK took Lyric and Elizabeth but in my opinion, I think they were followed, if they were in fact the intended target. If they were not the intended target then yes I feel the perp could have been waiting there for a child or children to show up, it makes me wonder about the day care center near Myers (which is no longer there), part of their activities were to take the children into the park for a walk. I have to wonder if it was something they did with the children every day and if they did this every day was it around the same time of day? If the perp was waiting then I feel that Lyric and Elizabeth were in the wrong place at the wrong time. For some reason my thoughts are that they were targeted and followed. IMO

For the timing to fit, they pretty much had to be...by someone with prior knowledge they were heading to the Lake.

They biked into a trap.

No one can explain how the girls vanished so quickly and silently. It only makes sense if there was a lot of planning involved.

Klunder was a lot of things, but he wasn't a planner. Two little girls in a garbage can tells us that. :banghead:

 

[nikb]

BBM
This was my line of thinking in saying MK's crimes were not premeditated. You're right ... there has to be some extent of planning in knowing what to do once the perp has a victim(s). But, I don't think MK had an obsession with anyone in particular whom he stalked until opportunity arose. He just staked out the places where opportunity would likely arise, and at the times when opportunity was at the highest. Yes, that MO would likely coincide with L & L's abduction. They were simply in the wrong place at the wrong time ... where and when their killer was looking for an opportunity to strike. :moo:

Your post makes me wonder something I thought about way back in the beginning. I wonder how common it is/was to see kids in Liz and Lyric's age range riding alone (well, together, but alone in terms of adult supervision) along the bike trail. I would assume it's a lot less common now, but how often did you see that before? A few times per day? Per week? It doesn't sound like that bike trail was particularly heavily used, although it does sound like it had a perfect "trap" built into it for an abductor to use. I just wonder if this was the most likely spot for the opportunity to arise to abduct two little girls. I don't know, just thinking "out loud."

 

[nikb]

FYI: BBM

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/police-recover-backpacks-2-kidnapped-iowa-girls

Michael J. Klunder, 6 feet 6 inches tall and 240 pounds, had to periodically check in with authorities as a registered sex offender. But because he was never convicted of sexually abusing a minor and was considered a second-tier offender, he did not face any restrictions on where he could live and faced less frequent monitoring.

Hmm wow that's tall. Wasn't LE asking hunters to look through their deer cams awhile back? This is from awhile ago so I may not be remembering all the details. If so, it seems it might be helpful to have a reference in terms of how someone of this height would look in relation to the trees near where L&L were found, even if it's just simple photos with marks on the trees near where the deer cams are.

 

[Marilynilpa]

It's not particularly relevant, as Klunder was not a meth user (that we know of).

I agree it's not relevant to Klunder - it's only relevant to your assertion that Iowa is the meth capital.:innocent:

 

[tlcya]

Whoever abducted L&L was waiting for them. It was planned. (ETA: if you accept the bikes weren't staged).

Note that a school bus stop is a likely place for a random predator to find youngsters on their own, a city lake during school holidays, not so much.

If Klunder is the perp he has taken a 180 swing in MO. He's gone from a compulsive, disorganised offender who hunts his prey, to an organised one who traps them.

Unlikely IMO.

agreeing to disagree on this point. If the bikes were not staged then he could have been there trolling for any likely victim adult or child. And IMO, a lake with riding/jogging path is as likely place as any to find a victim for one such as he. (recalling Austin Sigg's attack on the jogger before murdering Jessica Ridgeway. He too seemed to have no specific victim type)

His MO is to act impulsively with little real plan when a likely victim presents herself. If the girls went to the bike path just because they were feeling their oats ad breaking the "rule" then the idea of random comes into play. They were there, he was there trolling, and so forth.

 

[Dr. Know?]

I think a true psychopath might be just trying to make it through a system then onto his life.

If he wasn't happy, which wouldn't surprise me one bit working for the spouse's family, maybe had words with the boss (father-in-law) no wife that can back him up or will...yeah I can see this jerk going to his friends house to drink some beer, maybe go fishing at Myer's or just backing out from his friend's house (RSO) as it's a few yards from Elizabeth's house. Long way or short (busy intersection). Minutes either way.

Or he could have been on business passing through Evansdale. They see an opportunity and take it to the fullest with no fear. Maybe even enjoy the secret they have. That's the scary ones. Jodi Arias, proven with Klunder, Casey A, Misty C, they hold the secrets. C. Regusters from Philly, is another one. I can name too many so I'll stop there.

One thing they seem incable of is their guilt. And the "system" lets them out again...

 

[Dr. Know?]

I might have missed this part but did Klunder's wife or her family know his past?

 

[Foxfire]

Imo, too much weight is placed into whether MJK was organized vs disorganized. Due to many factors, predators are becoming more aware of investigative strategies, procedures, forensic, communication, and other technology advancements by law enforcement..

These classifications were first arrived at in the 1970s when the FBI BSU was established. They were intended only as a tool for categorizing serial killers There was also a classification of mixed.

Imo, as predators/serial killers become more aware and experienced, and in this new era, a new classification of hybrid has emerged. These SKs emulate the traits and patterns of other SKs prior, and have evolved to remain elusive..

'All available resources must be utilized in child abductions where stranger abductions are indicated'...As more and more child abductions are occuring in rural areas, where violent crime is rare, and LE resources scarce. A pre-abduction plan by LE in these rural LEAs, including mutual aide, must be in place prior to abductions for immediate activation...


http://childabductions.org/fbi.html

FBI as a Resource

The Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) is one of the resources available to your local law enforcement agency during the investigation of both Non-Family and Family Child Abductions.
In a Non-Family Child Abduction, the first few hours are the most critical to the successful recovery of the child. The investigating agency must have a pre-planned response and use every resource available during that critical time. The FBI can provide your agency with a copy of the FBI's Child Abduction Response Plan (CARP) to assist your agency in developing a pre-planned response. The FBI's CARP provides a guide to the investigative phases of a Non-Family Child Abduction, including Initial Responders, Neighborhood Canvassing, Victimology, Subject(s), Crime Scene(s), Command Post, Case Management, Media Strategy, and Technical Support. Also included in the CARP are Interview Strategies, Standardized Questions to be used for the Neighborhood Canvassing, Road Blocks, and General Assessment, and a list of additional resources provided by the FBI. As the investigative phases of a Non-Family Abduction can overwhelm any agencies' resources, the FBI can provide the particular resources needed by your agency. The FBI resources that are available include Special Agents to assist in Interviews, Neighborhood Canvassing, Road Blocks, Evidence Response Team (ERT), Computer Analysis Response Team (CART), Profilers from the Behavioral Analysis Unit (BAU), Polygraph Examiners, Crisis Negotiation Team (CNT) for the victim's residence, Special Weapons And Tactics (SWAT) Team, Special Operations Group (SOG) for surveillances, and Technically Trained Agents to assist in obtaining Cellular Tracking, Pen Register/Trap & Trace/Title III, Tele Track for vehicles, Pole Cameras, etc. In addition, to the resources of the FBI Field Office in your area, the FBI can utilize the resources of all 56 FBI Field Offices located throughout the United States, and the FBI's Legal Attaches assigned to approximately 60 offices internationally that cover approximately 200 countries.

 

[tlcya]

less than 45 minutes from Waterloo, Oelwein: another attempted abduction was reported last night. 10 year old girl. Two adult males in a blue van tried to coax her into the vehicle.

http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/at...cle_95b2877c-d5b8-11e2-baaf-0019bb2963f4.html

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

I guess the only good thing that can be said is that it was "attempt"... that failed. The more kids recognize the con for what it is, and resist or flee, the better.

 

[B4igo2it]

I think there are a lot of Michael Klunders out there.

oh yes and this is what scares those of us in the "know" so much! Previously, it was easy for them to stay off of the radar but now with groups like WS, missing person websites/notices, facebook, Internet etc. society is made more aware of warning signs and the like. I would not be surprised to learn of increased numbers of arrests in the past ten years. I do not believe this to be a new problem although we are all made aware of cases due to online and media resources.

Take for instances, the faces of meth website - society now knows the results of meth use. Additionally, Sex offender registry, website's showing mugshots & arrests are all broadcasting who is doing what and informing society of the vastness of these types of crimes and who is responsible.

I doubt many in the Evansdale area knew as much about child abductions before a year ago than they do today.

And I often am reminded of my own 75+ year old mother's words, "I do not want to know about all that horrible stuff that takes place ..."

It is my hopes that the fear of getting caught will lesson this deviant behavior we are coming to learn so much about! lease:

 

[B4igo2it]

BBM
The one adult kidnap victim of Klunder put up a big fight (caught another driver's attention). She seemed a bit much for him to handle. Again, we don't know if MK had other victims - those who managed to escape and/or those who didn't survive - but one theory on why (IMO) MK is a potential suspect in the kidnapping and murder of L&L is that he wasn't successful in overpowering adult women, and so resorted to targeting children. Just speculating, but if that's the case, when he was successful in overpowering children and appeared to escape detection, he moved on to targeting teen girls.

Some big guys are just big wimps with very low self-esteem. The motive behind MK's desire for control may be that he felt self-conscious of the fact he was nothing but a big oaf.

And I really hate to say this; when it comes to deer hunting - for some it is not about the killing it is the actual hunting of the prey. MJK may have preferred the other type of "dear" .... sadly, imo.

 

[B4igo2it]

less than 45 minutes from Waterloo, Oelwein: another attempted abduction was reported last night. 10 year old girl. Two adult males in a blue van tried to coax her into the vehicle.

http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/at...cle_95b2877c-d5b8-11e2-baaf-0019bb2963f4.html

this is very close to the location L&L were found, and a book http://www.methlandbook.com/

snipped from above link,
"Methland tells the heroic story of the small town of Oelwein, Iowa–and, through it, the story of drug abuse in Rural America. Once a railroad, meat-packing, and farming hub, Oelwein has been battered by the Farm Crisis and decimated by job losses. More recently, thanks to the lobbying of pharmaceutical companies in Washington, D.C., record amounts of methamphetamine, aka crank or crystal meth, are available on Oelwein’s streets. Like thousands of other small towns across the United States, the drug’s production has become one of Oelwein’s principal business."

 

[Squeeze]

I hope this works. I stopped by Angels Park today and took a panoramic picture with my fancy schmancy camera.

Also as I drove through Evansdale, I saw not a single ribbon. I realize that they were collected to shred and use for nesting material, but I really didn't expect to see NO ribbons. Made me sad.

Sent from my SCH-R530U using Tapatalk 4 Beta

 

[B4igo2it]

agreeing to disagree on this point. If the bikes were not staged then he could have been there trolling for any likely victim adult or child. And IMO, a lake with riding/jogging path is as likely place as any to find a victim for one such as he. (recalling Austin Sigg's attack on the jogger before murdering Jessica Ridgeway. He too seemed to have no specific victim type)

His MO is to act impulsively with little real plan when a likely victim presents herself. If the girls went to the bike path just because they were feeling their oats ad breaking the "rule" then the idea of random comes into play. They were there, he was there trolling, and so forth.

. . . and who was that seen fishing in the area? just wondering out loud here. :scared:

 

[B4igo2it]

although many were saddened by the destruction of trees @ Angels Park, I must admit it certainly lessons any plan of a perp hiding and/or remaining unseen while "in wait" for his/her next victim as evidenced in the bike trails in the area where the abduction "may" have taken place. Thank you for the photo - any activity taking place on the island can be seen from many angles at the present time making it less of an opportune area for an abduction IMO.

 

[Foxfire]

oh yes and this is what scares those of us in the "know" so much! Previously, it was easy for them to stay off of the radar but now with groups like WS, missing person websites/notices, facebook, Internet etc. society is made more aware of warning signs and the like. I would not be surprised to learn of increased numbers of arrests in the past ten years. I do not believe this to be a new problem although we are all made aware of cases due to online and media resources.

Take for instances, the faces of meth website - society now knows the results of meth use. Additionally, Sex offender registry, website's showing mugshots & arrests are all broadcasting who is doing what and informing society of the vastness of these types of crimes and who is responsible.

I doubt many in the Evansdale area knew as much about child abductions before a year ago than they do today.

And I often am reminded of my own 75+ year old mother's words, "I do not want to know about all that horrible stuff that takes place ..."

It is my hopes that the fear of getting caught will lesson this deviant behavior we are coming to learn so much about! lease:

Yes, times, they are a changin... Due to their busy schedules and 'that doesn't affect me mentality'. Many folks do not watch ms media/news or keep up with current events unless it pops up on facebook or other social sites,etc.
Ironically, I was just reading an interesting article that mirrored your comment;

http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/14/us/new-hampshire-bodies-mystery/index.html?hpt=hp_t1 via FIND MICKEY SHUNICK NOW! SEARCH RESOURCES FB Page;

Cold-case murders of 4 females brought back to life by new images, DNA tests
By Phil Gast, CNN
updated 3:04 PM EDT, Sat June 15, 2013
(snipped & BBM

Social media might have made a difference
The woman and the girls were killed before there was text messaging, Facebook and other forms of social media -- a fact not lost on investigators.
And, back in 1985, police did not have a clearinghouse for missing people. The National Center for Missing and Exploited Children had been in existence for only one year.
Social media is a valuable tool for investigators, says the center's Williamson, who leads a five-member team.
"From the missing side it has helped in a lot of cases," she says. "You can see who perhaps who they were talking to. With teenagers, their friends know more than their families know."
Unlike in 1978 or 1985, people nowadays are extremely connected, be it through cell phones, e-mail or social media.
"If you don't get a text within two hours you might wonder what is going on," says Williamson.
Still, she cautions, there are still cases today when people "are not reported missing for various reasons."
Ebert says someone critical to identifying the four victims may not have come forward because of a sense of criminal liability or guilt for not having provided clues sooner. The victims, he says, may have been part of a disjointed family.
He hopes the DNA testing may clearly show the relationships among the four victims, providing police and the public more opportunities to identify them. "It's an awful tragedy to lose a person to a homicide. It is terrible miscarriage of justice not to know who carried out the crime against your loved one."
Williamson and her team are working on 650 cases involving unidentified children. The oldest case is from Arizona, in 1933.
Since November 2011, the team has helped identify seven children, one of whom was a victim of Gary Ridgway, the so-called Green River Killer, she says.
DNA helped solve the cases. Now Williamson hopes to give a family a sense of closure.
"A good day is giving a child their name back," she says. "And we get very excited."