GUILTY IA - Kraigen Grooms for child sexual abuse, Ottumwa, 2013

[Karmady]

He looks young, but I'd say 14-15, not early teens.

I think he's a victim. Usually when they're looking for somebody involved in the crime, they say so. He looks to me like he's talking on Skype or some similar program, so he's looking at the picture of the person he's talking to instead of at the camera.

I think he's both in this situation. Also, his effeminate appearance could make him look younger than he actually is. If I had to guess, I'd say 15-17, but he could easily be of age.

And yes, he's definitely interacting on a live feed, so looking at whomever he's communicating with rather then the cam on the device.

jmo

 

[Jersey*Girl]

He looks young, but I'd say 14-15, not early teens.

I think he's a victim. Usually when they're looking for somebody involved in the crime, they say so. He looks to me like he's talking on Skype or some similar program, so he's looking at the picture of the person he's talking to instead of at the camera.

Rbbm. Not necessarily. Were you on the other case that's similar to this one with us? Lord have mercy carbuff, I'll never in my life forget that! I learned so much. Sososososo much! The way ICE worded the info for that other kid made me absolutely believe he was a victim, and I fought tooth & nail in his favor until I was proven wrong by another person on the thread that actually worked with 4chan and was posting here also, so they saw the real photos and set all of us straight. I learned stuff I wish I didn't but grateful that I did bc now I'm educated that not all kids are innocent. Some are just big jerks. Some kids have had awesome wonderful lives yet still molest young kids & grow up to be even worse paedophiles. Take a look at this link:
http://www.ice.gov/news/releases/1206/120619minneapolis.htm

This is how that release was worded:
JUNE 19, 2012MINNEAPOLIS, MN
Do you know this person? ICE seeks public's help to identify a person in need.
MINNEAPOLIS – U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement's (ICE) Homeland Security Investigations (HSI) is urgently seeking the public's help to identify the pictured individual who may need law enforcement assistance, but may not be able to request it.
We have reason to believe that this person may now live, or may have lived at one time, in either Minnesota or western Wisconsin.
If you think you know this person, please contact HSI at:

That's the case we followed here and he repeatedly raped a very young little girl for no reason at all. He was the perp 100% & not a victim at all. They caught him when somebody recognized the basement & some stuff in the basement, then they recognized him once clearer pics were produced. We dissected those pics thoroughly. That teen was arrested at his base, bootcamp or something in FL. Now he's in prison, thank gosh! Oh, & the guy that was dissecting his pics online, he said the kid showed no remorse whatsoever while he was raping that little girl. Sick, isn't it?

 

[carbuff]

No, I wasn't involved in that case. How perfectly horrifying!

Excuse me. I need to go :sick:

 

[Jersey*Girl]

No, I wasn't involved in that case. How perfectly horrifying!

Excuse me. I need to go :sick:

I cried for days. I'm serious when I say days. I was so naive & didn't realize this stuff exists. This goes waaaaay beyond kids innocently being curious or playing some dumb doctor game. This is a violation to the highest extent.

I know believe09 was on that thread, maybe she remembers if it was deleted or not. I'm trying to remember. I think mods may have deleted it once the kid was arrested and the little girl - which was either his sister or neighbor I forget - was saved. It was one of the saddest threads I'd ever been on, only bc I never knew this level of atrocities could be carried by someone so young. Then again, I'm learning everyday, look at the Boston bombings.

 

[carbuff]

I cried for days. I'm serious when I say days. I was so naive & didn't realize this stuff exists. This goes waaaaay beyond kids innocently being curious or playing some dumb doctor game. This is a violation to the highest extent.

I know believe09 was on that thread, maybe she remembers if it was deleted or not. I'm trying to remember. I think mods may have deleted it once the kid was arrested and the little girl - which was either his sister or neighbor I forget - was saved. It was one of the saddest threads I'd ever been on, only bc I never knew this level of atrocities could be carried by someone so young. Then again, I'm learning everyday, look at the Boston bombings.

:grouphug:

 

[Jersey*Girl]

:grouphug:

:blowkiss:

 

[Karmady]

Rbbm. Not necessarily. Were you on the other case that's similar to this one with us? Lord have mercy carbuff, I'll never in my life forget that! I learned so much. Sososososo much! The way ICE worded the info for that other kid made me absolutely believe he was a victim, and I fought tooth & nail in his favor until I was proven wrong by another person on the thread that actually worked with 4chan and was posting here also, so they saw the real photos and set all of us straight. I learned stuff I wish I didn't but grateful that I did bc now I'm educated that not all kids are innocent. Some are just big jerks. Some kids have had awesome wonderful lives yet still molest young kids & grow up to be even worse paedophiles. Take a look at this link:
http://www.ice.gov/news/releases/1206/120619minneapolis.htm

This is how that release was worded:
JUNE 19, 2012MINNEAPOLIS, MN
Do you know this person? ICE seeks public's help to identify a person in need.
MINNEAPOLIS – U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement's (ICE) Homeland Security Investigations (HSI) is urgently seeking the public's help to identify the pictured individual who may need law enforcement assistance, but may not be able to request it.
We have reason to believe that this person may now live, or may have lived at one time, in either Minnesota or western Wisconsin.
If you think you know this person, please contact HSI at:

That's the case we followed here and he repeatedly raped a very young little girl for no reason at all. He was the perp 100% & not a victim at all. They caught him when somebody recognized the basement & some stuff in the basement, then they recognized him once clearer pics were produced. We dissected those pics thoroughly. That teen was arrested at his base, bootcamp or something in FL. Now he's in prison, thank gosh! Oh, & the guy that was dissecting his pics online, he said the kid showed no remorse whatsoever while he was raping that little girl. Sick, isn't it?

do you have a link to the outcome of that case? Just an observation, but his eyes are seriously far apart and misaligned .

 

[Jersey*Girl]

do you have a link to the outcome of that case? Just an observation, but his eyes are seriously far apart and misaligned .

No, just google it. They didn't post stuff, we had to pull it from official records to see his arrest and his charges. It's def available on google it just takes time to search & I'm dead tired. I'm sure believe09 remembers it, though. Please don't think I'm being lazy, it's just that its almost midnight & I have to be up at 6 bc my youngest has a jamboree for football tomorrow. I think the kid was a minor when it happened but prosecutors wanted to charge as an adult. He even had a LinkedIn that said he's a star or something stupid like that. Oh, his eyes far apart is just the way it appeared bc of the angle & how the authorities enhanced the pic. People that knew him would still be able to tell it was him. It was done to protect the identity of the little girl he was abusing.

Eta, here's the link to that case. Note that ALOT WAS DELETED due to privacy concerns.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=176983&highlight=HSI+ice

 

[Jersey*Girl]

Sweet dreams everyone. Tonight I'm gonna dream that the good guys are gonna win. fftobed:

 

[believe09]

Night Jersey...sleep well.

The case was horrific. He was a minor at the time and they BOLO'd him the same as this case. It is very very hard not to leap to the same conclusion fwiw. All we can do is pray that there wasnt the same level of abuse.

IIRC, the teen in the previous case took off from WI and fled to FL where he was apprehended. There was something very very wrong with him in terms of his online behavior, fwiw. Really, Really strange. Very sexually overt.

We tried to follow it after he was arrested but they had it in juvenile court and it was not online.

 

[Jacie Estes]

Rbbm. Not necessarily. Were you on the other case that's similar to this one with us? Lord have mercy carbuff, I'll never in my life forget that! I learned so much. Sososososo much! The way ICE worded the info for that other kid made me absolutely believe he was a victim, and I fought tooth & nail in his favor until I was proven wrong by another person on the thread that actually worked with 4chan and was posting here also, so they saw the real photos and set all of us straight. I learned stuff I wish I didn't but grateful that I did bc now I'm educated that not all kids are innocent. Some are just big jerks. Some kids have had awesome wonderful lives yet still molest young kids & grow up to be even worse paedophiles. Take a look at this link:
http://www.ice.gov/news/releases/1206/120619minneapolis.htm

This is how that release was worded:
JUNE 19, 2012MINNEAPOLIS, MN
Do you know this person? ICE seeks public's help to identify a person in need.
MINNEAPOLIS – U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement's (ICE) Homeland Security Investigations (HSI) is urgently seeking the public's help to identify the pictured individual who may need law enforcement assistance, but may not be able to request it.
We have reason to believe that this person may now live, or may have lived at one time, in either Minnesota or western Wisconsin.
If you think you know this person, please contact HSI at:

That's the case we followed here and he repeatedly raped a very young little girl for no reason at all. He was the perp 100% & not a victim at all. They caught him when somebody recognized the basement & some stuff in the basement, then they recognized him once clearer pics were produced. We dissected those pics thoroughly. That teen was arrested at his base, bootcamp or something in FL. Now he's in prison, thank gosh! Oh, & the guy that was dissecting his pics online, he said the kid showed no remorse whatsoever while he was raping that little girl. Sick, isn't it?

I had nightmares about those pics and that case. I can still see every detail of that basement. smh

When LE gets these pics, it isn't that the POI is looking at the camera; LE is reversing the webcam so they can take pics of the POI, without their knowledge. The stills, or video that LE obtains, shows the POI using their laptop/PC.

 

[Jacie Estes]

Night Jersey...sleep well.

The case was horrific. He was a minor at the time and they BOLO'd him the same as this case. It is very very hard not to leap to the same conclusion fwiw. All we can do is pray that there wasnt the same level of abuse.

IIRC, the teen in the previous case took off from WI and fled to FL where he was apprehended. There was something very very wrong with him in terms of his online behavior, fwiw. Really, Really strange. Very sexually overt.

We tried to follow it after he was arrested but they had it in juvenile court and it was not online.

He had videos of himself in sexual acts and sexually suggestive dialogue on other sites, as well. Glad he is in prison and hope he stays a long time.

 

[tlcya]

this kid really bothers me. I am of the impression that he is the perp and the child on his lap a victim (uggh)

I keep thinking I have seen this kid before. And I can't shake the feeling it was in another of these ICE alerts about a year ago. I keep coming back to this kid's photo, puzzling. WHERE have I seen him? WHERE?

 

[Jerri Blank]

Rbbm. Not necessarily. Were you on the other case that's similar to this one with us? Lord have mercy carbuff, I'll never in my life forget that! I learned so much. Sososososo much! The way ICE worded the info for that other kid made me absolutely believe he was a victim, and I fought tooth & nail in his favor until I was proven wrong by another person on the thread that actually worked with 4chan and was posting here also, so they saw the real photos and set all of us straight. I learned stuff I wish I didn't but grateful that I did bc now I'm educated that not all kids are innocent. Some are just big jerks. Some kids have had awesome wonderful lives yet still molest young kids & grow up to be even worse paedophiles. Take a look at this link:
http://www.ice.gov/news/releases/1206/120619minneapolis.htm

This is how that release was worded:
JUNE 19, 2012MINNEAPOLIS, MN
Do you know this person? ICE seeks public's help to identify a person in need.
MINNEAPOLIS – U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement's (ICE) Homeland Security Investigations (HSI) is urgently seeking the public's help to identify the pictured individual who may need law enforcement assistance, but may not be able to request it.
We have reason to believe that this person may now live, or may have lived at one time, in either Minnesota or western Wisconsin.
If you think you know this person, please contact HSI at:

That's the case we followed here and he repeatedly raped a very young little girl for no reason at all. He was the perp 100% & not a victim at all. They caught him when somebody recognized the basement & some stuff in the basement, then they recognized him once clearer pics were produced. We dissected those pics thoroughly. That teen was arrested at his base, bootcamp or something in FL. Now he's in prison, thank gosh! Oh, & the guy that was dissecting his pics online, he said the kid showed no remorse whatsoever while he was raping that little girl. Sick, isn't it?

omg! i remember seeing that BOLO and thinking "that poor kid!" i didnt follow the case at the time...how horrific. really makes you look at the whole "nature v nurture" debate... some people are just born bad.

i can see how it makes sense to decide this is the same situation. and maybe it is, but just in case i am inclined to honor Salem's wish that we not condemn him until we know. something about calling a potentially abused, kidnapped or otherwise victimized kid a pig doesnt sit right with me.

knowing you all are probably right, desperately hoping i am instead :/

 

[Jerri Blank]

Hey, I was looking on ebay last night. This is not exact but closest I have seen due to the all caps lettering, lines over and under lettering, thick hood draw string. The color is not white and the lining is solid color not multicolored.

This seller, is the only one offering these (at least with that description):

ADIDAS MEN SWEATSHIRT GFX TECH FLEECE HOODY

http://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_odk...TR10.TRC2.A0.XGFX&_nkw=GFX&_sacat=0&_from=R40

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ADIDAS-MEN-...pt=US_Mens_Sweats_Hoodies&hash=item27d6bc53e1

that was all i was able to come up with last week too! i think the fact that he doesn't have any white ones lends credence to what was mentioned earlier that an adidas connection said they were either a prototype of limited release to a specific outlet. i hope someone gets in touch with them about potential distribution. it really may narrow an area down a lot!

 

[believe09]

I am still waiting to hear from Adidas. I will post as soon as I hear from them.

 

[Jersey*Girl]

omg! i remember seeing that BOLO and thinking "that poor kid!" i didnt follow the case at the time...how horrific. really makes you look at the whole "nature v nurture" debate... some people are just born bad.

i can see how it makes sense to decide this is the same situation. and maybe it is, but just in case i am inclined to honor Salem's wish that we not condemn him until we know. something about calling a potentially abused, kidnapped or otherwise victimized kid a pig doesnt sit right with me.

knowing you all are probably right, desperately hoping i am instead :/

If you go to ICE's original alert here:
http://www.ice.gov/news/releases/1308/130802dallas.htm

It informs this which I quote: (photos at link)
AUGUST 2, 2013DALLAS, TX
Do you know this person? HSI seeks public's help to identify an individual

DALLAS — U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement's (ICE) Homeland Security Investigations (HSI) is urgently seeking the public's help to identify the pictured individual who may have knowledge crucial to an ongoing criminal investigation.
Based on investigative clues in the photos, HSI special agents believe that this person may now live in, or has recently visited, north Texas. The photos are believed to have been taken sometime in April 2013. The ball cap's logo, "Shut Up N Play," is new and has not yet been released for sale. While the ball cap has not been released yet for general sale, there has been very limited distribution within north Texas. Due to privacy concerns, no further details can be provided at this time.
If you think you know this person, please contact HSI at 1-866-347-2423. You can also email your tip to: http://www.ice.gov/exec/forms/hsi-tips/tips.asp.
All tips will remain confidential.


Then go to ICE's official Twitter feed here:
www.twitter.com/wwwicegov

It informs this which I quote:
Do you know this person? ICE needs your help to identify an individual. 1.usa.gov/12LzbUT pic.twitter.com/0iEAx33TFE
11:49am - 2 Aug 13

It shows an official poster from ICE which is found here from the previous link:
www.twitter.com/ICEAlerts/status/363325748485963776/photo/1


The same wanted info poster is found on ICE's official Facebook wall on dates Aug 2nd 2013 & Aug 5th 2013. Their FB is here:
https://www.facebook.com/wwwICEgov

I notice a little girl's dark curly hair in a ponytail with a pink elastic band in the left picture on the poster. I notice the dark shaded area in the bottom right hand pic on the poster very much appears to be the same shape as the the pic showing the curly hair in a ponytail, except the shading shows what is very probably 2 ponytails. It appears a little girl is backwards in front of this guy/kid. She is in front of him, maybe on his lap. I see what looks to be brownish beadboard behind him, or some kind of paneling, heck maybe it's furniture idk. The kid is wearing a Shut Up N Play cap and an Adidas hoodie. It appears he's using a webcam, possibly built into his laptop or some kind of tech device, maybe a pc idk. One thing I do know is the fact that ICE definitively informs this person that they seek is a male John Doe as they specifically stated that in the poster.

Now, when I consider that there's many females that look like males, many males that look like females, and that many people can dress however they want - but pair that with the info ICE said he's a dude - then the only way they'd be able to tell the public he's a male John Doe is if they saw his distinguishing anatomy. His naked appendage shouldn't be anywhere near that little girl.

This is why I believe ICE has labeled it the way they did.

 

[Jersey*Girl]

Plus it's important to consider that ICE cropped &/or shaded the little girl in the pictures, but they didn't do that to the guy. That tells me they're trying to shield the little girl from further victimization by having her face on the net...but they kept the guy's face out there so the public can help identify him. They're goal could be to rescue the victim child and arrest the guy they're trying to identify. If they can find him, then it's probable they can locate the little girl and get her help.

 

[Jerri Blank]

Now, when I consider that there's many females that look like males, many males that look like females, and that many people can dress however they want - but pair that with the info ICE said he's a dude - then the only way they'd be able to tell the public he's a male John Doe is if they saw his distinguishing anatomy. His naked appendage shouldn't be anywhere near that little girl.

This is why I believe ICE has labeled it the way they did.

see it's funny to me, idk, i've read the debate about his gender here but really i never saw anything but a dude from the moment i first saw the ICE posting. there was never a question in my mind that he was a he, even without seeing his anatomy. i was actually surprised by how many folks thought he could be a she.

fwiw, im not defending this person. i do see the same thing off to the side as you do ( ). it's certainly not encouraging. i am just saying, till we know, mods asked us to keep it respectful. trust me that there are a lot of things i will have to say if that is the way the chips fall, none of them respectful.

until then, i am happy to keep plugging away at finding this kid because some child out there needs him to be found.

 

[Jersey*Girl]

Yeah Jerri, I agree. Fwiw, I know this is an online true crime board for people to express opinions while researching certain crimes, but a lot of us tend to get attached to certain cases. For me, that other case I was referring to taught me a lot. Never did I ever think kids could be like this intentionally. Even if they were a victim in their past, it never gives them a valid reason to become a perpetrator. It's not that I don't have compassion, it's just that I believe once a victim becomes a perpetrator, they're no longer a victim. That's why I think I fast became attached to this thread. The authorities legally cannot label him as a male unless they have proof, it would throw their case if so, so again they had to have seen his anatomy. I hope he's innocent from all wrongdoing, but the way I'm looking at those pics and seeing how strategic ICE is in their choice of words, I do think he's complicit. Praying he's not, though. I do hope my instincts are off on this one...