IA - Mollie Tibbetts, 20, Poweshiek County, 19 Jul 2018 *Arrest* #42

[glamourkitty1922]

You’re saying being brought here illegally and living here illegally disqualifies him from knowing the difference between forging a fake ID and killing someone? Not buying the argument. Jmo

Yet, he had a forged ID and he killed someone. Obviously he didn't think killing was wrong.

 

[Mom24]

Gitana, could CR have come through NM before he arrived in IA? I'm wondering if he could have gotten a SSN and driver's license under HB 173 and then used those documents to get a driver's license in IA. I'm wondering if the documents they receive in NM would have allowed for the documentation he was able to get in IA. I've been trying to figure out where he may have come through into the US and NM is the only state that has had these kinds of laws during the time frame that CR would have entered the US.

 

[mickey2942]

I just checked. In order to obtain a marriage license, a government issued photo ID and social security card is required in addition to a birth certificate. CR's SS and photo ID do not have the same name as his birth certificate.

Marriage Licenses » State of Iowa » Marriage Laws » IA

People do not need to be United States citizens to get married in Iowa. Or any other state. Nor do they need to be eligible for Social Security.

Often, they will accept a school identification card as "government" documents. With a birth certificate.

One member of the party, not all.

 

[scarlettbones]

I'm probably the only person to believe this, but I think there's a possibility that he hadn't set out that day to abduct or assault anyone. Don't throw any rotten eggs or tomatoes at me, I can't stand either! I was thinking he might just not be creative enough to make up a plausible story, so he more or less told the truth, but blocked out the parts that were hardest to admit to. Before I go any farther, I want to make it clear that what I'm about to say in no way excuses anything he did to MT during or after their encounter.

Maybe he had a lousy day, as many of us do, and decided to go for a drive to let off steam. When he saw MT running down the street looking happy, healthy and determined, it may have made him focus his anger/frustration on her. He drove by her several times while deciding what he wanted to do with her (like did he want to have a girl like her or did he want to destroy the symbol of what was missing in his life?) He really may have been dumb enough to think that she'd stop and talk with him if he approached her (but I really doubt it), but when she threatened to call the police it lit the fuse and he exploded. It wasn't because he was afraid of being deported or going to jail, and it wasn't that he felt rejected; it was more that it was one more frustration (the straw that broke the camel's back?) added to an already miserable day. That could account for why he doesn't appear to have had a plan laid out for what would happen once he got her.

I know many people who have tempers like that, but most haven't gone so far as to actually kill someone, yet. If he knew there was a possibility of totally losing control, he should never have gone near another person if he was in that kind of mood, and at his age, he should be aware of what he's capable of when he loses his temper. As I said, it wouldn't excuse anything he did, but it might help explain some of his weird actions. MOO

I think the same thing too. If new evidence comes out that proves this line of thinking wrong, I'll go with it. But it just doesn't seem like he woke up that day saying "I'm gonna murder today!". He made some terrible choices that day which ended Mollies life. But I don't think it was planned.

 

[glamourkitty1922]

Gitana, could CR have come through NM before he arrived in IA? I'm wondering if he could have gotten a SSN and driver's license under HB 173 and then used those documents to get a driver's license in IA. I'm wondering if the documents they receive in NM would have allowed for the documentation he was able to get in IA. I've been trying to figure out where he may have come through into the US and NM is the only state that has had these kinds of laws during the time frame that CR would have entered the US.

He didn't have an IA drivers license. That was discussed 3 pages ago.

 

[glamourkitty1922]

I think the same thing too. If new evidence comes out that proves this line of thinking wrong, I'll go with it. But it just doesn't seem like he woke up that day saying "I'm gonna murder today!". He made some terrible choices that day which ended Mollies life. But I don't think it was planned.

Murdering a woman is just a "terrible choice"?

 

[scarlettbones]

I didn't say that. I said he made terrible choices that ended her life. He chose to follow her, he chose to abduct her and then he murdered her.

 

[Al Hoffman]

I just could only think of a drivers license as form of identification.( As well as a SS card and passport.) I guess I have never seen a state issued form of identification. (My phone won't let me abbreviate it!) I suppose one would need it if they dont have a license. Obviously he couldn't use a passport!

You must have a current State issued ID to buy Beer, Liquor and Cigarettes just about everywhere, even if you are over 21. Hence the need for State ID cards for non-drivers. The corporate convenience stores actually scan the bar code on the back into their system, which will not allow the sale if the ID is expired, fake, or shows you are under 21. This no matter how gray your beard. It's their liquor license that is on the line.

 

[Mom24]

He didn't have an IA drivers license. That was discussed 3 pages ago.

Thanks. I had read it to mean he had an out of state ID when he was hired, but I was under the understanding he had at some point gotten a license.

 

[MyBelle]

At least in Iowa (and Tennessee) State issued ID cards are issued by the State DMV, and all the info is kept in the same database as State DL's. Also, the requirements and paperwork to get one are as stringent as State DL's, and you must be in the country legally to qualify.

I would suspect that the requirements are the same in all states, with some variation in residency requirements.

I agree. I don't know of any state that will issue any kind of license to someone who doesn't have a birth certificate and matching photo ID. And with the increase in employer audits, it was only a matter of time before CR was caught.

 

[MistyWaters]

Yet, he had a forged ID and he killed someone. Obviously he didn't think killing was wrong.

If he didn’t think killing was wrong he had no reason to hide the body in a cornfield or cover it with cornstalks. While LE was asking for information about Mollie’s disappearance, he chose to keep quiet. He knew what he did was wrong.

 

[MyBelle]

Gitana, could CR have come through NM before he arrived in IA? I'm wondering if he could have gotten a SSN and driver's license under HB 173 and then used those documents to get a driver's license in IA. I'm wondering if the documents they receive in NM would have allowed for the documentation he was able to get in IA. I've been trying to figure out where he may have come through into the US and NM is the only state that has had these kinds of laws during the time frame that CR would have entered the US.

CR didn't have ANY driver's license. Not in Iowa, not from any state. He gave his employer an ID and SS# from another state under a fake name.

 

[Al Hoffman]

On the list of CRs possible motives, that’s one I hadn’t thought about. It would account for his cooperative and voluntary confession as well. Ugg.

...and another basis on which to attempt to suppress his confession even with a promptly administered Miranda!

 

[glamourkitty1922]

Thanks. I had read it to mean he had an out of state ID when he was hired, but I was under the understanding he had at some point gotten a license.

Oh, sorry about that. I misunderstood.

 

[SharonNeedles]

I totally agree with @Confusion. The most terrifying aspect of this case for me is that CR by all accounts seems to be a pretty good person. He's described as a caring and responsible father, a hard working and dependable employee, somebody with no criminal record - nobody really has anything bad to say about him. We all came here looking for a monster and I'm sorry if that's what you think you see, but everything about his life in Iowa is turning out to be pretty normal and unremarkable.

Obviously that changed very quickly and my heart breaks for Mollie and her family. And as a parent raising teenage girls in the area, this is truly the nightmare scenario for me. It was easier to think whoever did this to Mollie was some kind of creep, the kind of person we should know to stay away from. It's a lot harder to accept this could be... anybody. Never let your guard down, if this can happen here it can happen anywhere.

 

[Mom24]

You must have a current State issued ID to buy Beer, Liquor and Cigarettes just about everywhere, even if you are over 21. Hence the need for State ID cards for non-drivers. The corporate convenience stores actually scan the bar code on the back into their system, which will not allow the sale if the ID is expired, fake, or shows you are under 21. This no matter how gray your beard. It's their liquor license that is on the line.

For some states it goes by age, for example in PA they will accept an out of state ID if you are over the age of 30. In most states they'll allow the use of a passport if you are visibly under the age of 25-30 as well.

 

[Deleted member 718]

Murdering a woman is just a "terrible choice"?

Synonyms for "terrible"

Dreadful, awful, appalling, horrific, horrifying, horrible, horrendous, atrocious, abominable, deplorable, egregious, abhorrent, frightful, shocking, hideous, ghastly, grim, dire, unspeakable, gruesome, monstrous, sickening, heinous, vile;

 

[CuriousCricket]

Thank you for saying this. I believe you’re spot on.

I thought you were leaning in this direction. Do you have any feeling for whether he might be the person responsible for the sexual assaults in Tama and some of the other nearby counties?

 

[Al Hoffman]

CR didn't have ANY driver's license. Not in Iowa, not from any state. He gave his employer an ID and SS# from another state under a fake name.

Agreed, but what exactly was the out of state ID used? A fake or an altered OOS state issued ID is of course possible and most likely used to get his job; as proof of ID, this would have sufficed. He could have even been driving on an altered but legit Iowa ID, his picture would not be in the system, but present on the DL, but the DL would pass a roadside LE ID check, if even called in by the stopping LEO.

 

[Gardenista]

You’re saying being brought here illegally and living here illegally disqualifies him from knowing the difference between forging a fake ID and killing someone? Not buying the argument. Jmo

He wasn't brought here. He came here because he wanted to