Found Deceased IA - Mollie Tibbetts, 20, Poweshiek County, 19 Jul 2018 *Arrest* #45

[MsBetsy]

I assumed it meant taking a case you are following and weaving your own narrative to go with it, without regard for the known facts, but I could be wrong. I had never heard the term applied here either, though I kinda can see where it fits sometimes. JMO

I thought maybe it meant being a fan of certain serial killers, and then reading novels based on their crimes!

 

[Jaclin]

I assumed it meant taking a case you are following and weaving your own narrative to go with it, without regard for the known facts, but I could be wrong. I had never heard the term applied here either, though I kinda can see where it fits sometimes. JMO

like coming up with wild Hitchcock theories!

 

[MistyWaters]

I'm not really the poster child for "normal", but is anyone really? I once said that just once I'd like to feel normal, and I was told that what I was feeling WAS "normal" for someone who had gone through my experiences. I believe that's true for most people, but we don't know what those experiences are in most cases. Even if the desire to assault or murder could be considered a normal reaction to someone's experiences, though, that doesn't lessen their responsibility for the damage done if they choose to act upon those desires. I do think it's normal for a young man to look at a nice looking young woman and fantasize about getting intimate with her, and possibly even forcibly in some cases; I'm also sure that many normal people have fantasized about punching someone who annoys them, and some may even imagine murdering someone they really dislike. As unpleasant as those things may sound, I believe they are normal (and normally kept in the privacy of the person's mind). The only time I think that they are abnormal is when they stop being fantasies and start becoming realities.

CR may very well have been as normal as any of us is for most of his life, but that ended once he decided to cross over that line. No matter what may have happened to him in the past, or what MT may have said to him that day, the decision to act as he did was entirely his. Even if every young man who had lived a similar life, and found himself in the same situation, would have acted the same way, it doesn't lessen his responsibility for his actions. I do believe that under the right circumstances almost everyone would be willing and able to kill someone, but I'd like to think that for at least 99.9% the circumstances would have to involve more than being turned down by a virtual stranger. MOO

ETA: Before someone else brings it up - No, I don't consider fantasizing about torturing, mutilating, etc. to be normal fantasies, or those that involve pedophilia. Maybe they are, but they definitely don't seem normal to me.

What you wrote sort of reminds me of conversation I once had with a police detective. It started out by me making a disparaging comment about people who commit crime and how thankless the job of LE must be. His response surprised me. He said every single person was capable of considering or following through with an illegal act under circumstances, just that the set of circumstances, the hot button, the trigger, differed from person to person.

For example theft... At the bottom of the ladder are those who would steal just because there was opportunity due to greed, spite, maybe even convenience. At the other end of the spectrum are people who might contemplate stealing or embezzling to save the life of a dying child. A child with a terminal illness requiring an unaffordable wonder drug from another country that gives that child good prospects of living a full life. That same person who might consider stealing money to save a child’s life would never ever consider taking a jacket from an open gym locker even if they admired it. But in both examples theft is involved.

 

[MsBetsy]

I get that sometimes people are killed when they try to defend themselves from someone who wanted to assault them, but I think you have to have a few screws loose, maybe a bolt or two, if you have the desire to assault someone in the first place. Those people need to seek psychiatric help now before they assault and/or kill someone. MOO.

I can also understand when people have suffered years of physical and mental abuse by a partner, and then "snapping"and killing them. Not that it's right, but I can understand the reasoning behind it. But being rejected once and killing someone is something I have never heard of before.

 

[Confusion]

I thought maybe it meant being a fan of certain serial killers, and then reading novels based on their crines!

I just took it to mean someone who comes up with a scenario you don't like or agree with. Actually, I assumed (always a bad idea) that it meant people making up their own stories without regard to the known facts.

ETA: I guess SteveP already said that, I could have just quoted him!

 

[MyBelle]

I am not saying this does or doesn't apply to CR because we simply do not know. that said I do not at all think it takes a drug pipeline access or gang activity to be involved in manufacture and selling of illegal drugs (or use). I live in a middle class area and two houses down blew up from a meth lab. it is wide spread and does not discriminate due to age, race, economic standing, etc.

It is a fact that I-80 is a pipeline used by Mexican drug cartels. They have "dealers" all over the U.S. Because CR was following the Mexican blog tracking drug cartel violence, I think there is a possible connection. JMO

http://netnebraska.org/article/news/1131977/record-nebraska-fentenyl-bust-brings-federal-charges

 

[MsBetsy]

I'm not really the poster child for "normal", but is anyone really? I once said that just once I'd like to feel normal, and I was told that what I was feeling WAS "normal" for someone who had gone through my experiences. I believe that's true for most people, but we don't know what those experiences are in most cases. Even if the desire to assault or murder could be considered a normal reaction to someone's experiences, though, that doesn't lessen their responsibility for the damage done if they choose to act upon those desires. I do think it's normal for a young man to look at a nice looking young woman and fantasize about getting intimate with her, and possibly even forcibly in some cases; I'm also sure that many normal people have fantasized about punching someone who annoys them, and some may even imagine murdering someone they really dislike. As unpleasant as those things may sound, I believe they are normal (and normally kept in the privacy of the person's mind). The only time I think that they are abnormal is when they stop being fantasies and start becoming realities.

CR may very well have been as normal as any of us is for most of his life, but that ended once he decided to cross over that line. No matter what may have happened to him in the past, or what MT may have said to him that day, the decision to act as he did was entirely his. Even if every young man who had lived a similar life, and found himself in the same situation, would have acted the same way, it doesn't lessen his responsibility for his actions. I do believe that under the right circumstances almost everyone would be willing and able to kill someone, but I'd like to think that for at least 99.9% the circumstances would have to involve more than being turned down by a virtual stranger. MOO

ETA: Before someone else brings it up - No, I don't consider fantasizing about torturing, mutilating, etc. to be normal fantasies, or those that involve pedophilia. Maybe they are, but they definitely don't seem normal to me.

I prefer " non - conformist" to not normal. But you brought up an excellent point. It's one thing to fantasize about punching someone or wishing your partner harm, but when you act on those fantasies it kind of crosses in to the " abnormal." At least I hope its not the norm. And I agree, fantasies about those last things you mentioned aren't normal, or at the very least not healthy, especially if they are recurring. I would feel very uncomfortable around someone if I knew they were obsessed with torture and most definitely pedophilia. I don't know if I agree that almost everyone would kill someone under the right circumstances, unless they are about to be killed themselves, maybe. I would like to think that most people are not capable of murder.

 

[MistyWaters]

CR's employer provided a place for him to live. Not all drug dealers are drug users. It is a way to make $$$ and a lot of money goes back to Mexico.

Okay. My initial comment pertained to CR holding down an unskilled labour job milking cows for 4 years, which contradicted the type of character who is attracted to the lure of criminal lifestyle. Had CR engaged in that type of activity, I’d be totally shocked that LE wasn’t aware of him. But he wasn’t on their radar. So we are aware of no known facts to support the notion CR was involved in gang activity.

It is a fact that I-80 is a pipeline used by Mexican drug cartels. They have "dealers" all over the U.S. Because CR was following the Mexican blog tracking drug cartel violence, I think there is a possible connection. JMO

Record Nebraska fentenyl bust brings federal charges | netnebraska.org

Not all Mexicans are involved in drug cartels and neither are all Italians members of the mafia. We’re beyond racial profiling here, I would hope?

 

[MsBetsy]

I am not sure, either, of anything. An otherwise normal person might flip and kill someone who has been abusing them for years. An otherwise normal person might accidentally kill someone in a drunken street fight. Normal people don't knock people out that they barely know and then finish them off by cutting them over and over or less likely run up and stab people in the back while they're shuffling their music. MOO My theory is that the blood on MT's head was due to MT being knocked out (blunt force trauma) and I am thinking knife or sharp weapon wounds would most likely be in the torso, especially if there were multiple of them. Why couldn't the head wound have been sharp force trauma? Well, it could have been, but considering that CR wasn't that much taller than MT, I don't think it's probable due to awkwardness of holding the weapon. I found an interesting study on stab wounds here:https://emj.bmj.com/content/emermed/2/1/31.full.pdf

Yes, of course, drugs and alcohol can play a role in murder too. But by all accounts, Rivera was not a drinker. He was also described as clean cut, but that might just be his appearance.

 

[MsBetsy]

Okay. My initial comment pertained to CR holding down an unskilled labour job milking cows for 4 years, which contradicted the type of character who is attracted to the lure of criminal lifestyle. Had CR engaged in that type of activity, I’d be totally shocked that LE wasn’t aware of him. But he wasn’t on their radar. So we are aware of no known facts to support the notion CR was involved in gang activity.

Not all Mexicans are involved in drug cartels and neither are all Italians members of the mafia. We’re beyond racial profiling here, I would hope?

Right, it was also said that he worked 12 hours a day, if I remember correctly. Or at least was a hard worker. Kind of hard to keep that up if you're involved in drugs. As for gangs, I doubt he would be working on a farm if that were the case. That would be a new one. Jmo

 

[MyBelle]

Okay. My initial comment pertained to CR holding down an unskilled labour job milking cows for 4 years, which contradicted the type of character who is attracted to the lure of criminal lifestyle. Had CR engaged in that type of activity, I’d be totally shocked that LE wasn’t aware of him. But he wasn’t on their radar. So we are aware of no known facts to support the notion CR was involved in gang activity.

CR lives in a remote location under an assumed name. There are plenty of unsolved crimes. LE said they are investigating his background and I'm betting they will find something. I'll continue to believe CR was supplementing his income with illegal activity.

I don't know that CR's job is "unskilled." I think maybe some sophisticated equipment is involved and CR is trained to do it. JMO

 

[dlharris2712]

I'm sure you aren't suggesting it was a normal act, I'm just putting the question out there as continuation of the concept that this was just a regular guy who suddenly turned to extreme violence. I wasn't addressing you specifically, it was a continuation of an earlier conversation. I have trouble with the word " normal" because I believe there is such a fine line between what is considered normal or not. I actually posed the question to see how others view it. Certainly normal people do abnormal things, but usually we here of a person with anger issues as lashing out at others, or other "acting out" behavior such as fighting, but we don't usually hear of those people killing someone. At least not in such a determined, violent fashion. I was just curious what others felt.

Thank you for the clarification...

 

[Deleted member 718]

Sorting out CR's job duties. He wasn't milking cows. He worked with Yarrabee Farm's award winning breeding program. To most undocumented workers, it seems like his job would be a pretty decent job. What motive could make him risk "la vita dolce"? Compared to riding a mule five miles a day, he had it made.

"Rivera had worked at the farm for 4 years and assisted with cow movement and cow husbandry.

Dane Lang also clarified that the farm did not know Rivera was the suspect charged with the murder of Mollie Tibbett's murder until he saw the photo on the news."

Murder Charges filed in death of Mollie Tibbetts

And maybe ironic, Yarrabee Farms cows (the ones' CR tended) won top honors at the state fair where Mr. Tibbetts and Dalton J handed out flyers.

"DES MOINES, IA (08/27/2018) (readMedia)-- Top dairy farms competed for honors in the Ayrshire Dairy Cattle show judged at the 2018 Iowa State Fair.

Yarrabee Farms of Brooklyn showed the Grand Champion Female, Champion Premier Breeder, Intermediate Champion Female and earned the Lifetime Production at the Ayrshire Cattle Show."

I love her fluffy tail.

 

[1987]

Sorting out CR's job duties. He wasn't milking cows. He worked with Yarrabee Farm's award winning breeding program. To most undocumented workers, it seems like his job would be a pretty decent job. What motive could make him risk "la vita dolce"? Compared to riding a mule five miles a day, he had it made.

"Rivera had worked at the farm for 4 years and assisted with cow movement and cow husbandry.

Dane Lang also clarified that the farm did not know Rivera was the suspect charged with the murder of Mollie Tibbett's murder until he saw the photo on the news."

Murder Charges filed in death of Mollie Tibbetts

And maybe ironic, Yarrabee Farms cows (the ones' CR tended) won top honors at the state fair where Mr. Tibbetts and Dalton J handed out flyers.

"DES MOINES, IA (08/27/2018) (readMedia)-- Top dairy farms competed for honors in the Ayrshire Dairy Cattle show judged at the 2018 Iowa State Fair.

Yarrabee Farms of Brooklyn showed the Grand Champion Female, Champion Premier Breeder, Intermediate Champion Female and earned the Lifetime Production at the Ayrshire Cattle Show."

I love her fluffy tail.

well I guess the farm didn't own the car if they didn't know it was him until they seen it on the news?

 

[MistyWaters]

CR lives in a remote location under an assumed name. There are plenty of unsolved crimes. LE said they are investigating his background and I'm betting they will find something. I'll continue to believe CR was supplementing his income with illegal activity.

I don't know that CR's job is "unskilled." I think maybe some sophisticated equipment is involved and CR is trained to do it. JMO

Typically “unskilled” refers to a job that doesn’t require any specific educational training as a prerequisite. What you’re referring to is on the job training.

 

[MsBetsy]

Sorting out CR's job duties. He wasn't milking cows. He worked with Yarrabee Farm's award winning breeding program. To most undocumented workers, it seems like his job would be a pretty decent job. What motive could make him risk "la vita dolce"? Compared to riding a mule five miles a day, he had it made.

"Rivera had worked at the farm for 4 years and assisted with cow movement and cow husbandry.

Dane Lang also clarified that the farm did not know Rivera was the suspect charged with the murder of Mollie Tibbett's murder until he saw the photo on the news."

Murder Charges filed in death of Mollie Tibbetts

And maybe ironic, Yarrabee Farms cows (the ones' CR tended) won top honors at the state fair where Mr. Tibbetts and Dalton J handed out flyers.

"DES MOINES, IA (08/27/2018) (readMedia)-- Top dairy farms competed for honors in the Ayrshire Dairy Cattle show judged at the 2018 Iowa State Fair.

Yarrabee Farms of Brooklyn showed the Grand Champion Female, Champion Premier Breeder, Intermediate Champion Female and earned the Lifetime Production at the Ayrshire Cattle Show."

I love her fluffy tail.

Not sure I should ask what cow husbandry is... she's a pretty cow, all the ones around here are black and white and their tails are cut off! I think it's cruel, they can't even swat away the flies.

 

[CuriousCricket]

well I guess the farm didn't own the car if they didn't know it was him until they seen it on the news?

I've always wondered if CR was not paying Yarabee Farms on the installment plan for the car. Without credit, he could not purchase it himself. However, his employer could buy it and allow him to make payments on it, even with holding the payments from his checks . . . Just my musings as I remembered how "company stores" work.

 

[MistyWaters]

Sorting out CR's job duties. He wasn't milking cows. He worked with Yarrabee Farm's award winning breeding program. To most undocumented workers, it seems like his job would be a pretty decent job. What motive could make him risk "la vita dolce"? Compared to riding a mule five miles a day, he had it made.

"Rivera had worked at the farm for 4 years and assisted with cow movement and cow husbandry.

Dane Lang also clarified that the farm did not know Rivera was the suspect charged with the murder of Mollie Tibbett's murder until he saw the photo on the news."

Murder Charges filed in death of Mollie Tibbetts

And maybe ironic, Yarrabee Farms cows (the ones' CR tended) won top honors at the state fair where Mr. Tibbetts and Dalton J handed out flyers.

"DES MOINES, IA (08/27/2018) (readMedia)-- Top dairy farms competed for honors in the Ayrshire Dairy Cattle show judged at the 2018 Iowa State Fair.

Yarrabee Farms of Brooklyn showed the Grand Champion Female, Champion Premier Breeder, Intermediate Champion Female and earned the Lifetime Production at the Ayrshire Cattle Show."

I love her fluffy tail.

I’m not understanding. Where is it indicated CR worked with the dairy farm’s breeding program? I do agree though, nice fluffy tail.

This sentence?

“Rivera had worked at the farm for 4 years and assisted with cow movement and cow husbandry.”

Cow husbandry refers to ensuring health, welfare and care of cattle. Movement suggests rounding up dairy cattle at twice daily milking time.

Another quote:
"This is shocking to us," Dane told reporters. "Nobody saw a difference. This guy stayed around for 35 days" after Mollie was killed, he said. Rivera continued coming to work, where he tended dairy cows, and seemed his usual self, Dane said.
Cristhian Rivera: What to Know About the Undocumented Immigrant Accused of Killing Mollie Tibbetts

 

[TL4S]

we don't know. he could have worked and done other things on the side. all we know is if he did we don't know about it.

Based on CR's public FB page, he liked music, sports, cars, and video games. He really liked hot women. Plus he liked to look cool. Seems "normal." JMO

Obviously, we're aware of his voluntary participation in illegal activities involved with his US status. He even had the foresight to list Guayabillo, Guerrero, Mexico as his FB "current city," and continued to follow his culture, including the news. But for an illegal immigrant, that all seems pretty "normal," too. JMO

But my sense is he had a deviant side that reached far beyond this single event. I don't think he was some mastermind criminal or killer who worked at hiding his true identity, but I don't think he just snapped, either. I think he was able to push aside human conscience more readily than a "normal" person (especially when no one was watching), and acted on impulse. My guess is he has committed other crimes. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see theft, and maybe so far as sexual assault (or more?). JMO

As for Mollie, I don't think it was until after she was dead that he actively started planning. I think he was smart enough in his deviance to think his way out, but still simple and impulsive (drive 15 miles, stick her in a cornfield and cover her with corn leaves). By the next day his focus was solely on acting "normal" again. When LE showed up, he knew he was caught, he knew he was a bad liar, and he went into shut down mode, thus his "blocked memories" story. I think the way he acted in court is another example of his shut down mode. He doesn't want to functionally deal with his crappy situation. It's not chill, or remorse, it's automatic pilot. JMO

 

[Deleted member 718]

Not sure I should ask what cow husbandry is... she's a pretty cow, all the ones around her are black and white and their tails are cut off! I think it's cruel, they can't even swat away the flies.

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