Found Deceased IA - Mollie Tibbetts, 20, Poweshiek County, 19 Jul 2018 *Arrest* #45

[MsBetsy]

There is a regular poster on here who used to do follicular hair DNA testing. Maybe he could say better. What I know is that the DNA is mainly contained in the hair follicle, and that REALLY old hair can be tested for DNA.

Also, I vaguely recall something about "dead hairs" that fall out without a follicle, versus hairs pulled out by a hairbrush or in a fight. Pulled out hairs will likely have an intact hair follicle, as in "pulled" out by the root. Pluck out a single strand of your own hair. If it hurts to pull it out, look at the tiny, white bulb at the scalp end. That is the DNA containing follicle, as it contains follicular cells, and most all body cells contain DNA (but not circulating Red Blood Cells)

I don't know what Wiki Forensic/Hairdresser BS LE told the woman in question or she said in response (remember that LE are free to lie to you as much as they want during questioning, EXCEPT for your Miranda Rights). But I would agree that a fresh pulled hair would have a moist full follicle, and a month old pulled hair would have a dried, shrunken folicle that would be harder to see. There is a whole chapter in Guyton's Human Physiology Textbook on hair that could likely tell you a lot more. Especially a newer edition. I went through the old green one, and the newer black one, what color are they now? If anyone knows, they might be able to answer this question better than me!

Yes, that makes sense. It was a hair with an intact follicle he was referring to. I think detective Flores was his name. He was trying to get Jodi Arias to admit she was there at the scene of the murder. When that didn't work he told her about her bloody palmprint that was found on the wall, and she suggested that must have been from another time as well!

 

[MsBetsy]

Yes; plus it's part of the 'evolutionary process'; we are still evolving as 'humans', who knew?

I think you are right about advances in medicine and all the science in that area as well.

 

[Boro55]

 

[MsBetsy]

Good Morning World, and you too kpm. My prayers and best wishes are with the people living on the coast of the U.S. South and Mid-Atlantic states.

Please, if you are living on the coast, in the path of Hurricane Florence, please for your safety evacuate inland now.

I've been through both Hurricanes Betsy and Katrina in New Orleans, both Category 5 storms as this one is becoming. This is not a storm to disrespect!

God Bless you all, and good luck.

Hurricane Betsy!!! How did I miss that one? What year was that? And yes, I hope those people are safe. We only get the heavy rains and winds here in the north east coast ( usually) but I can't imagine having to worry about my house being destroyed or having to pack up and leave every time a hurricane hits. Scary.

 

[SharonNeedles]

Yes. Either there WERE signs of malfeasance/evil that we missed (whoever 'we' are), or they were plain in sight all along had 'we' just paid attention. The theory that normal folks like you and I just don't all of a sudden one day "snap."

I think part of why it's hard for the average person to subscribe to the "just snapped" theory - people snap apropos of nothing whatsoever, is we don't really hear about it. We just hear- overandoverandover- "Oh, we are so surprised John or Susie Q did that. There's NO way. He wouldn't hurt a fly...." said into TV cameras or quoted after a horrific murder. "That never happens in this town."

It gives us a sense of control over our world & surroundings to think we can spot the predators. I like to think I get a vibe from people like that in person, & I do sometimes. I do sense the people to give a real wide berth to. All I know about CW's picture is I think he's a punk. I would have thought that had I randomly run across his FB.

Trigger warning (on a crime site, lmao)
A friend in CA had a friend who was murdered by her boyfriend. He chased her thru the house, pulling big clumps of her hair out, then stabbed her to death. It was an argument. Before that, he was a dream guy, no signs, always nice, respectful, decent. He called his son and simply stated, "I did something really bad..." My friend couldn't get over it, how the guy had no violence in his background whatsoever.

So maybe that's where the fan fiction evolves from. We just want to believe, we want to feel safe. But we are never truly safe. As a woman, the best I can do is extricate myself from any situation I think there's a remote chance of something about to go down. For Mollie, however, all she did was go out for a jog. That's it. I could walk out to my mailbox this afternoon, & my crazy next door neighbor could dislike something about my t-shirt, & go off. You never know.

edit: is there a branch in psychology that studies or has theories accepted by mainstream science that does subscribe to the 'snapped apropos of nothing' theory? How seriously is it taken?

Feeling safe does not necessarily equate to safety unfortunately. That’s kind of an issue around here, we feel safe and that may well be a false sense of security.

 

[Followfacts]

Some people cannot accept that normal people with no criminal history whatsoever and living a relatively unremarkable existence can and do murder with no warning at all. It’s only going to make sense in their minds if they can tell themselves he must have been evil all along. I’m amazed at how such an imaginative backstory can be fabricated after the fact.

LE may not ever know unless CR confesses to prior crimes, or they actually do dig in and find out about his history...LE in many cases don’t even know and don’t connect or persue some information ie: cold cases. For whatever reason, caseloads, budget etc...in some cases many people are killed and still attributed to these criminals by LE but not able to prosecute because of lack of evidence.
Honestly one is to many, and if that is it with CR , now caught, but how freaking scary is this murder.. no warnings at all.

 

[PommyMommy]

No mastermind for sure!! But not a guy who all this just happened to him and he was somehow a victim of something like a bad day, a bad temper, fate, etc. I’m not saying you said this... but IMO it is hard to rationalize the deliberate and intentional acts of killers as other posters had shared with me, about my questioning WHY?

I read about that Israel Keys no remorse, a predator, preplanned for years and killed people, not all were found and he was caught out of sloppy mistakes also caught on camera abducting etc. he was considered a real SK similar in some respects to CR and dissimilar in other respects to CR. Dissimilar IK had no TYPE he just killed, he had buried a killing kit 2 years before he used it in Vermont. He had these kits buried in different states.
But IK is like CR: no remorse, abduct used sharp object, IK used knives, camera had film of victim, vehicle involved in abduction IK whole thing on tape, CR vehicle and Mollie “suspect closer” and all that circling around prior to abduction. Both Not caught except through sloppy errors.
IK known as a prolific SK, and CR not a mastermind but killed just this once, not likely. Would he kill again if not caught ? Yes IMO.

Still a page or two behind, but interesting that you mentioned IK. Just wanted to add that his army friends said he had a quiet demeanor. When he was asked why he killed, his answer was, "Why not?" Scary stuff.

 

[Charliegizmo49]

Previous posters, with first hand corn harvesting experience said that from the cab of a Harvester you have a good view of what is between the rows as you go forward, and one would be keeping an eye out to avoid damage to the Harvester. Another said that a body would likely get caught up in the "head" of the harvester. The Farm Boy/Girl consensus seemed to be that a body would be noticed. I would also think that if MT's remains had not yet been found, Harvester operators and their crew would be on the lookout for a body in any case. If the remains had become skeletonized and scattered by animals, then perhaps the chance of going over the body would be increased. Still, there are people driving the harvested corn out, and somebody might have noticed something in a cleared field, like a flash of pink fabric as they drove past, or a femur sticking up. The body was left near the intersection of two roads that would be "heavily" traveled at harvest time, making it more likely to be noticed.

Any Mid-west 4-H Club input out there?

Good post much better written than mine. After learning to drive a large piece of machinery that size, the second most important aspect is to learn to protect
The Machinery. Breakage and repair is very expensive.

I distinctly remember learning to plow. The first day I broke every point in a six bottom plow. I thought my grandfather was going to end my farming career. While it was hard work and I enjoyed it and the increased allowance I received, that day I became a very expensive farm hand. My grandfather and I spent the next day and a half replacing those points. Until the day he died if I ever spoearedvto be arrogant he would gently remind me that no one before or since had broken 6 points. Had he not been so upset with me I might think it’s humorous today!!!


4-H is alive and well in the Midwest.

At fair time and especially a good share of exhibits are from youth 4-H programs.

4-H is a great teaching tool. I
learned to sew, paint and garden via that group, FAA ( future farmers of America) is another excellent group for learning.

 

[rebel123]

Hurricane Betsy!!! How did I miss that one? What year was that? And yes, I hope those people are safe. We only get the heavy rains and winds here in the north east coast ( usually) but I can't imagine having to worry about my house being destroyed or having to pack up and leave every time a hurricane hits. Scary.

O/T it's not a flyby Hurricane; it's staying around for 3/4 days. That's the big difference with this one. Hope everyone stays safe.

 

[feralwriter]

Feeling safe does not necessarily equate to safety unfortunately. That’s kind of an issue around here, we feel safe and that may well be a false sense of security.

I "felt" so, so safe in Iowa, after being in San Fran 2 decades. I stepped off Amtrak in Burlington, went north to Iowa City for 8 years. Got more stolen from me there than any other state I lived in, & outrageously constantly road-raged while riding my bike. And a former nonprofit boss was an embezzler never turned over to the cops (Iowa nice). Have had no issues since leaving Iowa. I mean, what are we supposed to do, in light of a false sense of security? Start packing heat at all times? I'm not seeing a solution besides never leaving one's house. Even there, the most dangerous are the ones we know personally, live with.

 

[Charliegizmo49]

I would think after all that time, if she was not found, there is a possibility she would have been basically bones.

Is the machine strong enough to grind up bones and clothing?

Sorry, I’m not familiar with this at all

No.

 

[MsBetsy]

No mastermind for sure!! But not a guy who all this just happened to him and he was somehow a victim of something like a bad day, a bad temper, fate, etc. I’m not saying you said this... but IMO it is hard to rationalize the deliberate and intentional acts of killers as other posters had shared with me, about my questioning WHY?

I read about that Israel Keys no remorse, a predator, preplanned for years and killed people, not all were found and he was caught out of sloppy mistakes also caught on camera abducting etc. he was considered a real SK similar in some respects to CR and dissimilar in other respects to CR. Dissimilar IK had no TYPE he just killed, he had buried a killing kit 2 years before he used it in Vermont. He had these kits buried in different states.
But IK is like CR: no remorse, abduct used sharp object, IK used knives, camera had film of victim, vehicle involved in abduction IK whole thing on tape, CR vehicle and Mollie “suspect closer” and all that circling around prior to abduction. Both Not caught except through sloppy errors.
IK known as a prolific SK, and CR not a mastermind but killed just this once, not likely. Would he kill again if not caught ? Yes IMO.

I think Israel Keyes was definitely an intelligent killer. He was towards the end of his "career" when they tend to start slipping up. He knew he was making careless mistakes. I think the urge took over rational planning in his last murder. He also had a young daughter, like Rivera. Maybe this was just Rivera's first time. Guess we will never know. Jmo

 

[SharonNeedles]

I "felt" so, so safe in Iowa, after being in San Fran 2 decades. I stepped off Amtrak in Burlington, went north to Iowa City for 8 years. Got more stolen from me there than any other state I lived in, & outrageously constantly road-raged while riding my bike. And a former nonprofit boss was an embezzler never turned over to the cops (Iowa nice). Have had no issues since leaving Iowa. I mean, what are we supposed to do, in light of a false sense of security? Start packing heat at all times? I'm not seeing a solution besides never leaving one's house. Even there, the most dangerous are the ones we know personally, live with.

Iowa City isn’t rural Iowa. I lived there for a few years as well and totally agree with you. I actually left Iowa City as my kids were starting school because I wanted them in a safer environment.

 

[feralwriter]

Iowa City isn’t rural Iowa. I lived there for a few years as well and totally agree with you. I actually left Iowa City as my kids were starting school because I wanted them in a safer environment.

You'll find this amusing: I lived 2 years at Dolphin Pointe. Out on route 6. They since tore that project down & renamed it. After a while the gov. wouldn't even let Section 8 recipients live there. Were I ever to pass thru a place like Brooklyn (which sign I laughed at driving past leaving Iowa down I-80), & stay there a day or two, I would barely even look around me as I walked around I'd "feel" so safe, & never in a million years would I think I was unsafe to take a lil jog. Down any road. Even at night.

 

[Al Hoffman]

Hurricane Betsy!!! How did I miss that one? What year was that? And yes, I hope those people are safe. We only get the heavy rains and winds here in the north east coast ( usually) but I can't imagine having to worry about my house being destroyed or having to pack up and leave every time a hurricane hits. Scary.

H. Betsy was a Cat 5 storm that hit NOLA in 1965. In the Lower 9th Ward (The same as destroyed by H. Katrina in 2005), 70+ people drowned, trapped in the attics of elevated 2 story Shotgun Double houses by rising flood water. Since then, a true native New Orleanian keeps an axe in the attic, just in case they will have to chop their way out of the attic to escape. Trust me, it's not a SK thing. But, my Sociopathic Stepson did put a chainsaw and a can of gas in his 2 story Townhome attic as his prep, as H. Katrina approached in 2005. Don't stay home without it!

If you live on or near the coast, North or South of the current projected "cone of error" for landfall of Hurricane Florence, keep your eye on the storm's plot for the next 3 days. If it turns your way, immediately head 150 miles inland. This killer of a storm deserves your respect and attention. This storm is likely to park itself and stall as it comes ashore, dumping Biblical feet of rainfall on the coast and further inland, perhaps for days! Leave NOW if in harm's way, if you possibly can!

 

[Mica]

Following

 

[Followfacts]

I "felt" so, so safe in Iowa, after being in San Fran 2 decades. I stepped off Amtrak in Burlington, went north to Iowa City for 8 years. Got more stolen from me there than any other state I lived in, & outrageously constantly road-raged while riding my bike. And a former nonprofit boss was an embezzler never turned over to the cops (Iowa nice). Have had no issues since leaving Iowa. I mean, what are we supposed to do, in light of a false sense of security? Start packing heat at all times? I'm not seeing a solution besides never leaving one's house. Even there, the most dangerous are the ones we know personally, live with.

Safety is not a guarantee anywhere we live there are risks; but packing a gun, or never leaving home .. I don’t like being a victim of anything or feeling like a sheep. I know as I age I will have to make some changes. Elderly can be targets. I’ve been researching senior services here and there is strength in numbers, a lot of activities and supportive groups/ services. “Everyone wants to grow old, but no one wants to be old.” Anonymous

 

[SharonNeedles]

You'll find this amusing: I lived 2 years at Dolphin Pointe. Out on route 6. They since tore that project down & renamed it. After a while the gov. wouldn't even let Section 8 recipients live there. Were I ever to pass thru a place like Brooklyn (which sign I laughed at driving past leaving Iowa down I-80), & stay there a day or two, I would barely even look around me as I walked around I'd "feel" so safe, & never in a million years would I think I was unsafe to take a lil jog. Down any road. Even at night.

Oh lord, no you weren’t safe there! That’s really the only part of Iowa City I’d call a “bad part of town.” A few years ago they added a little police station in that plaza just west of there hoping to curb crime a bit but it’s still scary out there.

 

[Al Hoffman]

Iowa City isn’t rural Iowa. I lived there for a few years as well and totally agree with you. I actually left Iowa City as my kids were starting school because I wanted them in a safer environment.

You're right, of course. But if you're from New York City, anywhere in Iowa is "rural".

In the mid-80's, my College in Davenport, IA had a major influx of New York City, New Jersey and Long Island students because their East Coast School lost its accreditation. It was actually funny to watch their attempts at "aclimatizing" to the Quad Cities, though they did sell the BEST cheesecakes at the Bake Sales.

One of the funniest stories involved two Jersey Boys, who were hooting and hollering, from their multi-story apartment building, at the women Danish students nude sunbathing on top of the yellow Dane house. The young women simply got dressed, walked next door, and gave their hecklers a ration and a half for being so rude. I understand it was a truly Royal dressing down, and they had no choice but to stand there and take it. Danes are great, kind, gentle people, and like Iowa Farm folk, slow to anger. But once they get going....and these were two righteously indignant, angry women!

 

[Tippy Lynn]

Previous posters, with first hand corn harvesting experience said that from the cab of a Harvester you have a good view of what is between the rows as you go forward, and one would be keeping an eye out to avoid damage to the Harvester "Head". Another said that a body would likely get caught up in the "head" of the harvester. The Farm Boy/Girl consensus seemed to be that a body would be noticed. I would also think that if MT's remains had not yet been found, Harvester operators and their crew would be on the lookout for a body in any case. If the remains had become skeletonized and scattered by animals, then perhaps the chance of going over the body would be increased. Still, there are people driving the harvested corn out, and somebody might have noticed something in a cleared field, like a flash of pink fabric as they drove past, or a femur sticking up. The body was left near the intersection of two roads that would be "heavily" traveled at harvest time, making it more likely to be noticed.

Any Mid-west 4-H Club input out there?

FWIW. I live on an acreage in Minnesota, I’ve been in all kinds of farm equipment and have helped in the fields. A body would most likely be seen when harvesting. However, it could go unseen as well. If the combine operator wasn’t paying attention as well as he/she should have been and unknowingly runs over the body the weight would bust up and push the decomposed body into the soil. Clothing might be exposed, but maybe not. JMO