ID - 2 year boy accidentally shoots and kills mother in walmart in ths US

[sonjay]

Leland Yee is no longer in office, so you can stop bringing him up as an example of a politician in office. He was kicked out because of the scandal.

Thank you for telling me how to post.

We have idea how long Yee was importing illegal firearms while he was in office. And we have no idea how many more Leland Yees are out there doing the same thing.

 

[sonjay]

Yeah we ultimately want it AND we're realistic enough to know that ship has already sailed. It would be impossible to confiscate guns from every private citizen, so we don't get the paranoia. We just want realistic regulations.

What realistic regulations do you think are needed that aren't already in place?

What realistic regulations would be sufficient? Would there ever be any point at which you would say "There, that's enough regulating of those scary firearms. We don't need any more"?

 

[CoolJ]

Nope, just the opposite.

I have a CCW. That means I've been background-checked and fingerprinted and judged "not a threat" sufficiently enough to carry a concealed firearm in public. I already own multiple firearms, including handguns, shotguns and rifles. I've never shot anyone. The worst legal trouble I've ever been in has been the occasional speeding ticket. Yet, anytime I go to a gun shop or gun show and buy a gun from an FFL licensed dealer, they have to make me fill out a 4473 and call in to Big Brother to get approval for me to buy a gun. Because.... why, exactly?

I think it's stupid beyond belief that I can buy my husband a gun as a gift, but it's illegal for him to give me the money to go to the gun shop and buy one for him. He has a CCW himself; it's not like he's a prohibited person.

Maybe you think it is stupid because you know it is unnecessary for YOU. But how are the licensed dealer and Big Brother supposed to know that?

 

[CoolJ]

Nope, just the opposite.

I have a CCW. That means I've been background-checked and fingerprinted and judged "not a threat" sufficiently enough to carry a concealed firearm in public. I already own multiple firearms, including handguns, shotguns and rifles. I've never shot anyone. The worst legal trouble I've ever been in has been the occasional speeding ticket. Yet, anytime I go to a gun shop or gun show and buy a gun from an FFL licensed dealer, they have to make me fill out a 4473 and call in to Big Brother to get approval for me to buy a gun. Because.... why, exactly?

I think it's stupid beyond belief that I can buy my husband a gun as a gift, but it's illegal for him to give me the money to go to the gun shop and buy one for him. He has a CCW himself; it's not like he's a prohibited person.

And another question that I am very curious about if you don't mind me asking.
Why so many guns? Why would anyone need more than one?

 

[eucalyptuz]

I really appreciate the tenacity of both sides here.
:tyou:
I've been mainly reading and occasionally giving my 2 cents and, as always with this debate, more than any other 2-sided issue that I can think of, it goes nowhere. The statistics, the anecdotes (old and new), the politics, the rhetoric. It seems there are many tireless defenders of both sides, but every defender has to realize at a certain point that their argument is falling on deaf ears. If statistics are viewed through a lens of bias they can be made to support anything, same goes for anecdotes. Politics in this country will always be L v's R on nearly every issue and so that just leaves us with rhetoric. Everybody arguing their point, defending their opinion, maligning the opinions of others. Don't get me wrong...I love a healthy debate but never once in my many minutes, nay...hours, nay...weeks of weighing in on this issue have I ever had an inkling that maybe it was time well-spent. That maybe I was going to affect change and that maybe because of my passion, something would alter and a life would be spared...
I don't want to throw in the towel but I really do think the ship has sailed.

 

[K_Z]

And another question that I am very curious about if you don't mind me asking.
Why so many guns? Why would anyone need more than one?

Different weapons for different purposes. You don't shoot a deer with a handgun. (Usually, anyway, unless it's an attack deer.)

My hubby has close to 2 dozen, long guns, pistols, revolvers, etc. Several are family heirlooms he inherited when his dad died, really beautiful pieces with fancy metalwork and exotic wood stocks. One was used to kill a badger by his great aunt, after she tried to whip it to death with a buggy whip. That's a good family story-- the badger is stuffed and in a box.

Different size ammo for different targets and distances. I like his competition target pistol best, and I'm most accurate with it.

He's looking for some specialty shotguns and an antique musket, as well as the target rifle that is used in biathalon.

Of note, our local high school just started a trap club last year, and took the state high school championship in their first season! Quite impressive. The kids have to practice off of the school grounds, and cannot carry their rifles in their own cars on school property, even though it's a sanctioned state high school sport.

Different guns, for different sports, and different purposes. (And we are not really "gun people". No one in our family carries concealed, though lots have the permits.)

 

[sonjay]

Of note, our local high school just started a trap club last year, and took the state high school championship in their first season! Quite impressive. The kids have to practice off of the school grounds, and cannot carry their rifles in their own cars on school property, even though it's a sanctioned state high school sport.

Wow, those trap club kids must really be living in fear!

 

[LinasK]

Well, yes, yes they have, many times.

Thank you again for again calling me paranoid and "living in fear."

GardenLady & I have said we wanted it, not that it would happen, nor that we have any power to make it happen. Noone is gonna take your guns away from you.

 

[sonjay]

Now realize???? Never has anyone suggested a complete ban on private citizens owning guns, only the paranoid who fear it. And they are living in fear or they wouldn't need to live their everyday lives with guns.

Why do you have knives, baseball bats, dogs, outside lights, and the police programmed in your phone? Are you living in fear?

 

[sonjay]

Maybe you think it is stupid because you know it is unnecessary for YOU. But how are the licensed dealer and Big Brother supposed to know that?

They know because I already have a CCW permit. I've already been background-checked and fingerprinted. I generally give my CCW as my photo ID when buying a gun. It's pretty obvious.

 

[sonjay]

And another question that I am very curious about if you don't mind me asking.
Why so many guns? Why would anyone need more than one?

For the same reason I have more than one boat. Purpose-built things are always better for the specific purpose than general-purpose things. There is no single "right" gun for every possible use.

Ruger 10/22 for hours of inexpensive plinking that's easy on the arms, the ears and the budget. Also good for introducing new shooters to the sport.

Little lightweight .380 for everyday carry.

Nightstand gun for home defense.

Shotgun for skeet shooting, and ducks.

Assault rifle because the gun grabbers don't want me to have one. Also useful after hurricanes in case of looting, when the phones are down and the cops wouldn't be able to get here for hours even I were magically somehow able to call them without a working phone.

And maybe some others. No one needs a complete inventory of my guns. All of which were, unfortunately, just lost in a tragic boating accident.

Daysailer for afternoon sails.

Pontoon boat for afternoon cocktail cruises, fishing, and general river & harbor fun.

Little jonboat for creek fishing, super easy to launch & retrieve and to clean up afterward.

Ski boat for waterskiing.

Don't yet have the larger cruising sailboat suitable for coastal cruising and island hopping, but it's on my list.

 

[CoolJ]

They know because I already have a CCW permit. I've already been background-checked and fingerprinted. I generally give my CCW as my photo ID when buying a gun. It's pretty obvious.

Maybe you have gone mentally ill, maybe you have since committed a felony, maybe you are now on a terrorist watch list, maybe you have since began hangin out with some shady characters etc.. And maybe it is not you who is buying the gun with your identification. I think it is a great idea for Big Brother to keep a tight rein on who is buying guns. I mean eventually you are going to get it ,right? What's the rush?

 

[CoolJ]

“It's very dramatic when two people come together to work something out. It's easy to take a gun and annihilate your opposition, but what is really exciting to me is to see people with differing views come together and finally respect each other.”
― Fred Rogers, The World According to Mister Rogers: Important Things to Remember

I think we can all stand to learn something here if we take a little bit of Mr. Rogers advice.

 

[sonjay]

Maybe you have gone mentally ill, maybe you have since committed a felony, maybe you are now on a terrorist watch list, maybe you have since began hangin out with some shady characters etc.. And maybe it is not you who is buying the gun with your identification. I think it is a great idea for Big Brother to keep a tight rein on who is buying guns. I mean eventually you are going to get it ,right? What's the rush?

Oh, there's no rush. There is no waiting period to buy long guns in my state, and anyone with a CCW is exempt from the 3-day waiting period for handguns. I can decide in the morning that I want a new gun, go to my local gun shop, and be shooting it in my backyard before noon. (Assuming ammo is available.)

I think it's a terrible idea for Big Brother to keep a tight rein on who is buying guns. Only the law-abiding are subject to any of the restrictions. The bad guys do not buy from FFLs, do not undergo background checks, do not fill out 4473s, and do not obey any of the other laws. Why should peaceful law-abiding citizens be subjected to additional costs, time and trouble, when the bad guys don't?

Plus, I can buy a gun in a private sale, completely legally, without any 4473 nonsense. I know lots of people who only buy privately exactly because they want to stay under the radar.

There is definitely an inconvenience factor, though, especially for people without CCWs. Most gun shows are week-end events. There are often good deals to be found -- often from dealers whose retail space is located a good distance from the gun show location. But if you don't have a CCW, you're subject to the 3-day waiting period, and you have to wait until after the show and travel to wherever the gun shop is that you bought from to go pick up your purchase after the show.

Imagine if we made people do that to register to vote. No, sorry, you can't vote today. We'll take your provisional vote now, and in 3 days you have to travel to a location 200 miles away to actually cast your vote. Because we have to keep a tight rein on who is voting, you know. Make sure you're legally allowed to vote.

 

[Montjoy]

Only the law-abiding are subject to any of the restrictions.

rsbm --

Oh, so you're telling us that crimes are never committed using legally purchased weapons? I'd like to see a source for that, please.

 

[waitin'4thewrld2chg]

GardenLady & I have said we wanted it, not that it would happen, nor that we have any power to make it happen. Noone is gonna take your guns away from you.

There are at least three on the list. Waitin'4thewrld2chg wants it, too (a ban).

But I would get farther wishing the moon were green cheese or that this dang flu wasn't trying to last three weeks.

I gotta be realistic. But I am proud to live in Washington State, where I-594 to expand background checks passed in November. It's possible, who knows, that the Oct. 24 shooting at Marysville-Pilchuck High School in Marysville, Washington, that left four students dead, including the shooter, and three more injured, had some impact at the polling place.

It can be argued that what happened at Marysville had little or nothing to do with the provisions laid out in I-594, but in my view, there is a ripple effect toward the positive anytime gun restrictions are enacted, even those that might appear absurd at first glance. "Good" guns can become "bad" guns or "accident guns" in a split second.

There is simply less you can do, for good or ill, with a commodity whose proliferation or ease of access is less than it once was. So for those who only have good intentions, I would say the hoops are the price of poker. Jumping through them contributes to the overall good of the order imo.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

On the way home from work tonight there was a report on the radio about the arrest of a man for an armed robbery. When the reporter was reading off all of the charges against this I was waiting for a very common one. Yes it was there, one of the charges was for a felon in possession of a firearm.

Background checks don't keep guns out of the hands of these dangerous repeat criminals. JMO.

 

[CoolJ]

On the way home from work tonight there was a report on the radio about the arrest of a man for an armed robbery. When the reporter was reading off all of the charges against this I was waiting for a very common one. Yes it was there, one of the charges was for a felon in possession of a firearm.

Background checks don't keep guns out of the hands of these dangerous repeat criminals. JMO.

If there wasn't such an abundant supply of guns, yes I think background checks and other measures would keep guns out of the hands of many criminals. All of them? Of course not. But a big dent could be made.

Also, Lets not forget that not all criminals have a criminal record. So no matter what, SOME criminals are always going to be able to get guns. You just have to live your life in such a fashion that you don't run into these criminals.

Also, can we stop using the word "" when we really mean criminals. It implies something that is not relevant to this discussion. I am guilty of it myself.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

If there wasn't such an abundant supply of guns, yes I think background checks and other measures would keep guns out of the hands of many criminals. All of them? Of course not. But a big dent could be made.

Also, Lets not forget that not all criminals have a criminal record. So no matter what, SOME criminals are always going to be able to get guns. You just have to live your life in such a fashion that you don't run into these criminals.

Also, can we stop using the word "" when we really mean criminals. It implies something that is not relevant to this discussion. I am guilty of it myself.

I'm not sure how you propose to diminish this abundant supply of guns. I can't think of anything that fit's within the Constitution of the United States.

I agree that some criminals haven't been caught and convicted before they use a gun to further their abhorrent behavior. That fact should not be a reason to hinder a law abiding citizen from buying a gun to defend themselves. Lets concentrate on locking up the repeat offenders with long sentences who illegally arm themselves and prey upon society.

How can one live their life to guaranty they will not have contact with an armed felon? It can happen anywhere. I posted up thread where an innocent lady was shot by a convicted felon in an affluent low crime area near me. What did she do wrong? Nothing.

I will continue to use the word "" where I feel it works in getting my point across.

JMO.

 

[Montjoy]

I will continue to use the word "" where I feel it works in getting my point across.

Just curious -- what does it mean to you beyond 'criminal'?