ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 56

[Cedars]

Respectfully, I am not a family member, but in the context of presumption of innocence, I, too, have questions.

We don't know who killed them yet. BK stands accused. I don't believe MPD framed anyone, they merely followed the leads and made conclusions based on crime scene, DNA, the digital data, and the witness' report. With the information they had, they did professional job. If there is a sheath lying on the victim's bed with someone's DNA, they have to investigate the DNA, and follow the DNA owner. We, the public, have to rely on the affidavit. And here are some things that I can't understand.

I tend to agree with @drmrgrl in that the sheath with DNA lying on the bed is almost too easy. If it was BK's, why isn't it covered in his DNA? Why one spot? But maybe, there are explanations to this.

Here is what I can't get.

The murderer, probably, came for one target and overkilled + 3 - on two floors! He is horribly cruel. Did he, for example, start on floor 3, then suspected that someone heard him on floor 2, and went down to eliminate the witnesses? He killed someone who merely heard sounds and said, "there is someone there" . The murderer kills someone hearing him, and others, who were sleeping, not even true witnesses. But then, he bypasses a bona fide eyewitness staring at him with eyes wide open! It doesn't make any sense. Having killed four, you don't leave the fifth, in fact, the only true witness.

Then, he allegedly returns at 9:20 am - to retrieve his sheath, I'd imagine. Why doesn't he get it back? Knowing this sheath might be his undoing. There is no police around. There are no people around house. Why not come in and get the sheath? All he needed to do was to go via the same doors on the 3d floor, and back. Makes no sense, unless something or someone scared him. Then, what and whom? We don't hear about it. We hear nothing about the doings in the house between the killer departing and the police emerging. Everything is so quiet that the killer can't get his sheath.

I hope it gets known during the trial, but so far, question mark. Too many unanswered questions.

(Nothing changes if the target was on floor 2. He kills two people, then passes by a witness who saw him, and goes up to deal with two women, for having heard him, and a barely barking dog).

As I read it, you seem to be saying you don't believe the PCA because the facts do not seem to be the actions of a perfectly rational, logical person.

IMO there are two problems with this: firstly, that a person committing 4 murders during a 15 minute time must be, has to be completely rational and logical throughout that entire 15 minutes.

Secondly, I think a PCA is a fascinating kind of document, that we only see in this kind of situation ie murder.

We don't (thank goodness), have highly skilled people investigating and recording our every action throughout our own lives. Believe me, if you were to read a statement about my actions, you'd be exclaiming 'she walked right past the keys she was supposedly looking for! I can't believe it! Look at that, she typed up a great long email and then couldn't find the email address and ended up phoning them instead! This is impossible....' and on and on.

 

[DeDee]

122922 Affidavit - Exhibit A - Statement of Brett Payne.pdf | PDF Host Page 6

4:00 D awakens to hearing K play with Murphy
Short time later, K says: "There's someone here."
4:12 X on tiktok
D opens door 2nd time hearing X crying
D hears Male voice "It's ok. I'm going to help you."

4:17 audio recording captures voices, followed by a whimper and a thud
4:17 Murphy is barking (Did he make the whimpering sounds?)

Homicides occurred between 4 and 4:25

25 minutes divided by 4 victims = appx 6.25 minutes spent with each victim

JMHO and attempting to fill in the timeline of time BK spent in the 1122 House

 

[KPO]

He stalked that house so often that it seems unlikely that he didn't know there was a 5th person home (was there also a 6th on the first floor?). Either he was trying to get out of there quickly since he had already killed his intended target (plus a few others?), he was tired and didn't want to risk tangling with anyone else, or, he didn't know D was on the second floor & wasn't planning to visit the 1st floor in any case. I think time was of the essence to him.

Also, I can't wrap my mind around the fact that he brought his phone with him to that location so many times! I mean, he wasn't trying very hard to be invisible, was he? Turning it off, turning it on, leaving it on. Why not just leave it at home? Was he looking at their social media posts while sitting outside stalking them? Seriously, what the heck?

I read that Moscow had better shopping and other things but he was going middle of the night. Only 1x was it during normal hours. Maybe he'll say he went to parties in that area...although I think people would remember him and he'll have no one that can verify that.

I don't know if all those trips were stalking that house. He may have originally just been stalking in general. Nearby sorority houses, other girls. It seems like the cell towers there don't narrow down the area much. Especially since he pinged that tower one time when he wasn't in Moscow.

Also, his neighbors said that he rarely slept and was up all throughout the night. Maybe he'll claim insomnia and that cruising around helped.

Dude has a lot of splaining to do!

 

[Lalalacasbah]

He did not drive straight home after the murders. He drove towards Genesee, Idaho and Uniontown, Washington then drove to home to Pullman.

I can't remember, did we find out if he went as far down as Clarkston/Lewiston?

Asking as it's close to that Snake River that has come up a lot on the threads. Snake river for disposal... but maybe too far out of his way. Not sure he'd go that far.

 

[drmrgrl]

The knife sheath is probably from the murder weapon, but I would not be shocked to learn otherwise. Given the suspect's field of study, I can easily see him leaving behind items to deliberately mislead police. That would be some ironic justice.

On the other hand, BK was dumb enough to bring along his phone, and apparently doesn't know that cameras are everywhere these days.

IMO, I still think that BK is not that stupid. This almost looks like something a college student would do.

 

[DeDee]

122922 Affidavit - Exhibit A - Statement of Brett Payne.pdf | PDF Host Page 6

4:00 D awakens to hearing K play with Murphy
Short time later, K says: "There's someone here."

4:12 X on tiktok
D opens door 2nd time hearing X crying
D hears Male voice "It's ok. I'm going to help you."

4:17 audio recording captures voices, followed by a whimper and a thud
4:17 Murphy is barking (Did he make the whimpering sounds?)

Homicides occurred between 4 and 4:25

25 minutes divided by 4 victims = appx 6.25 minutes spent with each victim

JMHO and attempting to fill in the time BK spent inside the 1122 House

 

[AngTxGal]

The knife sheath is probably from the murder weapon, but I would not be shocked to learn otherwise. Given the suspect's field of study, I can easily see him leaving behind items to deliberately mislead police. That would be some ironic justice.

On the other hand, BK was dumb enough to bring along his phone, and apparently doesn't know that cameras are everywhere these days.

My opinion-
BK was dumb enough to bring his phone, turn it off right before and back on right after, and apparently doens’t know these things…
- homes near 1122 King Road have cameras
- touching things may put DNA on them
- some cameras have audio
- fast cars leave rubber on pavement
- sheaths are to hold bloody knives
- sheaths are connected to the belt
- dogs bark
- shoes leave footprints
- the road past 1122 is a dead end
- the roads near WSU have cameras
- ID has the death penalty.

JMO

 

[rsd1200]

Here's the paragraph being debated. X is deceased on the floor. On the floor within the door of her bedroom, or just outside the door of her bedroom, was not really my point in my post linked below. I can't speak for others. My point was merely that she was not in bed, but on the floor, and was likely up, and a chance that she encountered him on the way to use the restroom or to see if the delivery driver had returned (seeing how D had heard the statement; I think someone is here. (loosely quoting)).

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/122922%20Affidavit%20-%20Exhibit%20A%20-%20Statement%20of%20Brett%20Payne.pdf

ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 56

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[Indiana Jones]

IMO, I still think that BK is not that stupid. This almost looks like something a college student would do.

BK is a college student.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

He did not drive straight home after the murders. He drove towards Genesee, Idaho and Uniontown, Washington then drove to home to Pullman.

I can't remember, did we find out if he went as far down as Clarkston/Lewiston?

Asking as it's close to that Snake River that has come up a lot on the threads. Snake river for disposal... but maybe too far out of his way. Not sure he'd go that far.

My opinion-
BK was dumb enough to bring his phone, turn it off right before and back on right after, and apparently doens’t know these things…
- homes near 1122 King Road have cameras
- touching things may put DNA on them
- some cameras have audio
- fast cars leave rubber on pavement
- sheaths are to hold bloody knives
- sheaths are connected to the belt
- dogs bark
- shoes leave footprints
- the road past 1122 is a dead end
- the roads near WSU have cameras
- ID has the death penalty.

JMO

Well said! I bet there's a slew more of mess ups he did when we get all the info too.

 

[KonaHonu]

I'm going to venture a guess that this might have been one of her first, if not only, weird experiences with the evil that walks through our lives, so it was new to her, and likely confusing. It's kinda like the cartoons of the good angel on one shoulder arguing with the devil on the other shoulder. In her case it wasn't a devil and angel doing the arguing, it was her gut and her brain disputing what the gut was telling her. I'm just glad she's alive and unscathed. Although mentally I'm pretty sure she's messed up. I just hope that with time she'll be able to let go

I'm sorry and I am not criticizing you. But I think we should all stop analyzing what DM did that night. I personally have a lot of questions but none of us were there. None of us will have to live with being there that night like she will. None of us will have to read posts on forums like this that question their actions years from now. I hope we can all be decent people and stop looking at DM's actions and discussing here. It has no value in convicting BK and can only be hurtful. She is an innocent young women who I am sure did what she needed to do at the time. Whatever she did does not deserve being questioned.

 

[lucidium]

IMO, this is what makes me suspicious! Nobody is that stupid. There is something else at play here

BK's actions were slightly above common criminal dumb. In other words, typical mistakes made by criminals every day. No reason to be suspicious of the affidavit claims in my opinion.

I do believe you are wise to keep an open mind though. The affidavit only presents LE's evidence in support of their working theory. It certainly looks like a pretty damning case at this stage.

Ultimately, a trial is the proper place to weigh all the evidence, though I think he'll most likely plea.

 

[EyeSpyU]

This is so like the oj case in so many ways. Gets there late. Kills violently with knive. Person walks up kills them. Knife never found. Shoe print at scene. Talk of gloves and a following a whit car

I can’t see the similarities except for the fact a knife was used.

The reason or one of the reasons oJ was charged with murder if his estranged wife and I believe boyfriend, was due to jealousy. OJ had a motive.

BK didn’t have a motive as he didn’t know any of the victims as far as we know. IMO the murderer was stalking them from afar, possibly on SM too and found Maddy and Kaylee highly attractive but knew he stood no chance with them. JMO of course.

 

[Mark4]

IMO, this is what makes me suspicious! Nobody is that stupid. There is something else at play here

Lots of people are that stupid. He did what he thought was enough, he turned his phone off, he wore a mask, it seems like he knew how to avoid leaving too much DNA evidence, he took a convoluted route home, he changed his plates days later, he got his car across the country when it wouldn’t look overly suspicious. He thought that was enough. I suspect he wasn’t planning on killing 4 people and so didn’t expect the FBI to be involved, and I would guess the distraction of an extra person in MM’s room led to him dropping the sheath/forgetting to retrieve it.

He may be very talented academically, he may know an incredible amount of theory about how to commit a crime, but when it came to doing it he was just stupid. He didn’t need to take all of the steps he did to avoid detection if he wanted to be caught, he just wasn’t very good at it.

 

[WildWest]

Do you speak from experience (I don't mean blood, obviously). Because I am absolutely convinced blood did not seep to the exterior wall. It doesn't seem remotely possible to me.

Wouldn't be the first time I was confidently wrong though.

How many pints of blood would it take to saturate and run out of a house? Google says 8 pints in a human and Ethan was the only one in that room. I cannot make sense of it! If the house was that loose to let some liquid run out it must have been freezing from cold air coming in. Idk, some others early on assured me it was possible but I know how much 8 pints are and I've only lived in the Rockies.

 

[jepop]

As I read it, you seem to be saying you don't believe the PCA because the facts do not seem to be the actions of a perfectly rational, logical person.

IMO there are two problems with this: firstly, that a person committing 4 murders during a 15 minute time must be, has to be completely rational and logical throughout that entire 15 minutes.

Secondly, I think a PCA is a fascinating kind of document, that we only see in this kind of situation ie murder.

We don't (thank goodness), have highly skilled people investigating and recording our every action throughout our own lives. Believe me, if you were to read a statement about my actions, you'd be exclaiming 'she walked right past the keys she was supposedly looking for! I can't believe it! Look at that, she typed up a great long email and then couldn't find the email address and ended up phoning them instead! This is impossible....' and on and on.

Yes, well said. We have to try and look at it from the POV of the criminal ie make attempt to put aside our ownassumptions/biases. Speculate, for eg, how did BK feel about re-enetering the premises in broad daylight the night after, not knowing who might be looking out the window, feeling apprehensive and scared of getting caught perhaps? I feel that control, how in control he felt, might play a factor in his actions. If he was indeed wanting to (in daylight) collect the sheath it is possible to imagine that he might be torn about the risks involved. If is was at all aware of camera and cctv, he might have held a belief that he would be more identifiable in daylight. JMO and speculating.

 

[AngTxGal]

122922 Affidavit - Exhibit A - Statement of Brett Payne.pdf | PDF Host Page 6

4:00 D awakens to hearing K play with Murphy
Short time later, K says: "There's someone here."

4:12 X on tiktok
D opens door 2nd time hearing X crying
D hears Male voice "It's ok. I'm going to help you."

4:17 audio recording captures voices, followed by a whimper and a thud
4:17 Murphy is barking (Did he make the whimpering sounds?)

Homicides occurred between 4 and 4:25

25 minutes divided by 4 victims = appx 6.25 minutes spent with each victim

JMHO and attempting to fill in the time BK spent inside the 1122 House

Affidavit Page 6 also says

“Areviewoffootage from multiple videos obtained fromthe KingRoadNeighborhood showed multiple sightings of Suspect Vehicle 1 starting at 3:29 a.m. and ending at 4:20 a.m.”

Does this mean the car was recorded leaving at 4:20AM or is it parked at that time?
There is a camera getting footage ofthe intersection of King and Queen, and also a camera getting footage of the parking lot on the hill behind 1122 King Rd.
Which of these got the footage of the white Elantra at 4:20?

If it is the parking lot that got footage of the Elantra at 4:20, where did it go to not be found on the camera that films the intersection of King and Queen? There is no other exit.

So it must have been spotted at the enter section of King and Queen at 4:20AM leaving the crime scene?


JMO

 

[WildWest]

IMO, this is what makes me suspicious! Nobody is that stupid. There is something else at play here

I fear so too!

 

[jepop]

122922 Affidavit - Exhibit A - Statement of Brett Payne.pdf | PDF Host Page 6

4:00 D awakens to hearing K play with Murphy
Short time later, K says: "There's someone here."
4:12 X on tiktok
D opens door 2nd time hearing X crying
D hears Male voice "It's ok. I'm going to help you."

4:17 audio recording captures voices, followed by a whimper and a thud
4:17 Murphy is barking (Did he make the whimpering sounds?)

Homicides occurred between 4 and 4:25

25 minutes divided by 4 victims = appx 6.25 minutes spent with each victim

JMHO and attempting to fill in the time BK spent inside the 1122 House

Sorry, but the PCA states that Suspect Car 1 (with BK in it according to the premises of the PCA) was still driving down the road infront of the house at 4.04am. It had not parked at 4.04 am. Suspect Car 1 was seen leaving "the area' at 4.20am.

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/122922%20Affidavit%20-%20Exhibit%20A%20-%20Statement%20of%20Brett%20Payne.pdf

 

[Bbgiraffe]

His adrenaline was probably pumping out of control, I bet he didn't even realize that he no longer had the sheath with him until he got quite a distance from the crime scene, by that point he was probably just hoping that it either got contaminated with the victim's DNA, was left outside where he could come back through and scoop it up (maybe why he came back at 9am or so, when it was light out). He was probably wracking his brain trying to remember where he left it or dropped it.

Also, if he had a police scanner app he could have known whether it had been called in yet or not before he made his second trip over there that day.