ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 59

[otto]

Yeah this is what I mean though, timeline it out based purely on the solid digital receipt information we have so far - not taking into account anything Dylan added through her recounting of events.

We'll then have a wire frame to insert potential explanations for D.M's claims.

This?

4:04 a.m. suspect driving hear house
4:12 a.m. Xana awake, on TikTok app
4:17 a.m. loud thud, dog barks

 

[Boxer]

Re: BK passing DM on his way out of the house, I previously believed that he may have seen her but didn't care because he was disguised (wearing a mask) and had completed his intended mission. The possibility that BK has visual snow has thrown this into question for me. If BK still has visual snow--and from what I've read, it sounds like a chronic condition--this could change everything. It has changed my own ideas about the events of Nov. 13, and I think it likely will influence BK's legal defense strategy.

Here's a brief overview from the Cleveland Clinic:

Visual Snow Syndrome (Static Vision)

With visual snow syndrome, you see static whether your eyes are open or shut. Learn more about what it's like looking through a shaken snow globe.

my.clevelandclinic.org

Symptoms include seeing "snow" or "static" everywhere you look, having difficulty seeing in the dark, and insomnia (among other, very unpleasant-sounding symptoms). So I now think it's more probable that BK truly didn't see DM as he was leaving the house. Visual snow also could have made it more difficult for BK to locate the knife sheath, if he did intend to retrieve it. Finally, it seems like some of BK's odd habits, like vacuuming at 1am and being generally very active in the late night and early morning hours, may also be tied to Visual Snow Syndrome.

I was anticipating a novel legal defense in this case, but I'm now getting a sense of just how novel it may wind up being.

MOO no excuse for murder. Maybe for depression, but for cold blooded killing of others? Nope, nothing excuses it.

 

[wary]

The test can tell whether it's blood or spit or semen or---> skin cells.

Just saying. So no, he can't claim he bled on it if it's touch DNA, etc. He has to explain his DNA without knowing what LE knows at this point time - because it is his DNA.

Well, I believe that his attorneys will get all the info in discovery, long before he has to claim or explain anything. So....what do you think?

 

[Soulmagent]

Xana was "likely awake and using the TikTok app at approximately 4:12 a.m. That's an awfully specific approximate time. Xana was not using TikTok at 4:17 a.m. That's when the dog started barking.

Maybe she heard the dog and went to look and saw the dog fine in the unlocked room and did see the killer but he followed behind her because he thought she might have like right behind her, and went back to tell Ethan , The murder of them was last minute not planned and why he forgot the knife . I think this theory ,is the most likely. Like why he had to kill on two floors and not the third . DM imo barely missed death herself . So maybe he only discovered people alive when he went to go back to get the forgot thing The front door being open means he was really stunned IMO.

 

[Sleuth2010]

So interesting and I agree for the most part, I think he projected his pain outward but also wanted to control it and marry the feeling of his pain/humiliation with his vast intellect. Almost like he couldn’t acknowledge or feel his feelings without dissociating from them immediately with the powers of his mind.
I wanted to add that I think he chose the house (and the students in it) as a target because it was seen as easy to access, being a known party house, with lots of people coming and going, doors unlocked/left open and multiple cars coming and going at all times of day and night. I don’t know that I believe he had a connection with or specifically targeted any one student in the house and the murders were rage at pretty girls or happy friends. I think the key here is he was looking for subjects with which to experiment with and lax security measures would allow his experimentation. JMO
One other thing, I think neither the victims nor BK’s physical appearance plays into this tragic circumstance - nor should it. It rankles me a bit to constantly read the superlatives in a negative or positive sense directed towards the physical appearances of the victims vs BK. We are all conditioned of course in our responses to appearance as human beings and I don’t deny that. Let’s
just try to see beyond that conditioning in the way we express our ideas about this case.
I believe power and control are at the root of the evil that is murder.

Kaylee Goncalves warned about stalker three weeks before ...

A shopkeeper who knew Kaylee Goncalves, one of four Idaho University students murdered on November 23, claimed she had "tons of issues" with a stalker.

www.newsweek.com

Kaylee Goncalves Warned About Stalker Three Weeks Before Her Murder​

Mr. Goncalves stated Kaylee had a stalker.

 

[rsd1200]

IMHO I believe it’s something on social media involving one or more of the girls that set him off instead of some previous physical encounter.

^ This was my 2nd theory and has since moved up to 1st place theory after they released that no one at The Mad Greek recalled seeing DK there. It's not my only theory, but it's currently moved up to the top.

 

[PaulaDC]

I've thought about the use of the word thud myself. To me, it implies something had some airspace like a wall, floor, etc. I don't associate thuds, for example, with someone falling on a cement floor. JMO

How about a vehicle trunk shutting.

 

[Leve]

This may have already been discussed but something just occured to me.

In the PCA, arrest warrant, and reading from the judge; I think his crimes are listed in the order they occured.

1st burglary - he entered the house, then he killed MM, KG, XK, and EC - in that order.

I kept wondering why they weren't listed in alphabetical order and why the least serious offense was listed first. This just makes sense to me.

 

[Wishbone]

We all have difficult lives. So what? Killer had a cross-wired brain: go to church, doctors and counselors.
Did the killer know right from wrong? Don't rob. Don't cause harm to others. Don't rape. Don't molest kids or youth. Pretty basic. Killer clearly knew wrong from right. He made heinous, vomitus, evil choices. He destroyed more lives than can possibly be counted. Killer did not care who he hurt, how he hurt them, or the ever-lasting effects on others. This adult man deserves exactly what he has coming. Unless his experienced defense counsel, gets a not-guilty verdict. Then the killer can carry on...and on...and on.

I'm not condoning what BK most likely did but trying to understand and make sense of it. Sad thing is that the murders were a senseless act. And that's just the point. IMO his thinking is so skewed that I can't decipher his motivation. He gave us hints on how his thoughts plagued him and he seemed to realize how distorted his thoughts were and even disliked himself because of them but was unable to control himself at times. I don't know, if he did murder those kids, if he even feels bad about it since in the past he would lament about not being able to feel. I don't believe he did this for the thrill of it or for the notoriety. This is a tragedy all around and if he is convicted he will pay the price for it.

 

[rahod1]

That suggests the target was either Xana and Madison, or, Xana was awake on the second floor and was killed to remove her as a witness, and Madison was the target.

That begs the question>>> WHY<< Proceed into a house that, at that time, was likely occupied by 4 or more people?
There were several cars present at the time. At a MINIMUM, he had NO ASSURANCE that multiple people weren't present the house. MOO

 

[seemstome]

Vast intellect?

Oh sorry, booksmarts.

 

[PaulaDC]

Jumping ahead several pages to post this.

I'm currently in the middle of listening to an audiobook whose subject matter might help explain DM's reaction that night.

The book is called "The Unthinkable: Who Survives When Disaster Strikes -- And Why" by Amanda Ripley.

She talks about all sorts of disasters from restaurant fires to plane crashes to employees in the Twin Towers on 9/11 to earthquake/tsunamis to school shootings to human stampedes at the Hajj. She describes different reactions that are common. Denial (brain simply refusing to register a crisis) as well as play-dead paralysis (in the presence of a bad actor such as a school shooter) are both common. Other people panic or take a hero's role but those are much less common. Nearly everyone seems to wait for some authority to tell them what to do. The psychology is fascinating (to me at least).

Her focus is primarily on group situations rather than one person's situation (which wouldn't qualify as a disaster by her terms).

The Moscow murders seem like an in-between situation -- there are multiple people involved, but DM isn't in contact with any of them in the moment, so she is in effect having to act/not act on her own.

Obviously the book doesn't address this case specifically (written in 2008, we've had plenty of disasters worldwide since then) but I can't help but see the application as I listen there and read here. I'm inclined to think DM's reaction was entirely normal.

Thought some folks here might be interested in the book. At about 75% of the way through, I would rate it highly.

Could her reaction be something as simple as she possibly could have taken a sleeping pill and just plain passed out. Moo

 

[otto]

How about a vehicle trunk shutting.

D.M. woke up to an unknown noise that sounded like Kaylee was playing with her dog. Xana was on Tiktok, confirmed until 4:12 a.m. At 4:17 a.m. there was a thud, and then D.M. opened her bedroom door for the third time.

The thud at 4:17 was in the house shortly before the suspect left the house through the kitchen door.

Affidavit pg 5

 

[drmrgrl]

I’m not new been a long time lurker but had to contribute to this thread. I was rewatching an old video interview of Xana Kernodle’s Mom conducted by Ashleigh Banfield from Newsnation on YouTube full interview edition, which was posted roughly about a month ago for those who want to search for it.

This was before we found out about BK being a suspect. During this interview Mom briefly mentions Xana’s sibling Jasmine who also attended WSU.

Thought this was coincidence. Do you think BK knew her? Thoughts?

Yes.IMO. That may be a likely connection

 

[vls12345]

I think the neighbor's security camera audio 50ish ft from Xana's window tells us the order of the bedrooms in the killings. Imo, it had to be picking up Xana's side of the house, not Maddie's room. So that commotion is at 4:17, followed by a security camera seeing the car leave at 4:20. I think he had to have gone upstairs first. There's no time for it otherwise.

Also, there was a latent print found that corroborated DM's placement of BK near her door but heading toward the slider door to (we assume) exit.

If EC and XK had been attacked/killed first, I would think there would be more prints leading upstairs. But, those weren't mentioned. (I know the PCA doesn't cover everything but I would think prints going upstairs might have been mentioned.) I wonder if there were any prints coming down the stairs?

Anyway, agreeing with you XK and EC last.

MOO.

 

[Friday Fan]

I'm 1/2 Middle Eastern. I do not feel that BK has "bushy eyebrows"...sorry...He just has plain old eyebrows AFIC
Also, I don't feel the brows passes the "smell test". It's just a descriptor because nothing else was visible.

The headlines that he was ID'd by his eyebrows or the description of his brows helped ID him wreaks of tabloid sensationalism again.

 

[CaneDubs]

I'm 1/2 Middle Eastern. I do not feel that BK has "bushy eyebrows"...sorry...He just has plain old eyebrows AFIC
Also, I don't feel the brows passes the "smell test". It's just a descriptor because nothing else was visible.

The headlines that he was he ID'd by his eyebrows wreaks of tabloid sensationalism again.

MOO - the eyebrow thing is more like a feature consistent with a suspect or not consistent with a suspect. It’s not an identifier on its own. Also i think bushiness is fairly subjective within a range. Like somewhere before Eugene Levy, there is a range of eyebrows that people might consider bushy or not.

 

[TheNile]

I'm not condoning what BK most likely did but trying to understand and make sense of it. Sad thing is that the murders were a senseless act. And that's just the point. IMO his thinking is so skewed that I can't decipher his motivation. He gave us hints on how his thoughts plagued him and he seemed to realize how distorted his thoughts were and even disliked himself because of them but was unable to control himself at times. I don't know, if he did murder those kids, if he even feels bad about it since in the past he would lament about not being able to feel. I don't believe he did this for the thrill of it or for the notoriety. This is a tragedy all around and if he is convicted he will pay the price for it.

I have sympathy for BCK's younger self. He was still innocent, and clearly cared enough despite his "lack of emotion" to feel badly about being mean to his father. In one of the forum posts he even says that he cares about the fellow members of the Tapatalk forum. HOWEVER, to me, the most tragic part is that if someone had stepped in, if he had gotten true help, its very likely Xana, Ethan, Kaylee and Maddie would still be alive right now. We can sympathize with young BK all we want but at the end of the day the actual tragedy is that their lives would have been saved if BK would have gotten the help he needed.
MOO,IMO

 

[sunshineray]

Lets say the killer does have a plan of pulling off the perfect murder. That plan is to get arrested and charged because of the evidence that was allegedly left behind, however to be found not guilty because of that same alleged evidence?

Now THAT would indeed be the perfect crime...would it not?

Could BCK be smarter than we may think... many of his past teachers and classmates have said he is very intelligent, it does seem that BCK has put in the effort and done the due diligence to attempt such an plan. IDK Im just speculating

He drove his own car to the murder scene, up and down and all around that small dead end area, three point turn etc... When he finally got home the morning of the murders right before dawn and waited for ** Breaking News ** and there was none, he got back in his car and drove back to the murder scene. That doesn't sound very intelligent to me, sounds like his obsessive/deviant side was dominant over his intellectual/patience side, IMO. Do you think his lawyer will try and have him evaluated for competency?

 

[jcamh]

Someone here on WS also speculated about a sheath a few weeks prior to the PCA. Honestly, even on here, there were some crazy, creepy theories about what may have happened. I don't think anyone here is BK because of their speculations. People other than murderers can speculate on details and get them right.

I posted about Pappa Rodger posting about the sheath a couple of weeks before the PCA came out. The back and forth discussion between Pappa and another person was intense. The other person actually said to him, "you sound like a serial killer" and "you sound creepy."