ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 65

[Palinsmom]

Timeline of Idaho killings: When and where the victims were targeted

A deeper look at the Idaho college killings: Mapping accused killer Bryan Kohberger's alleged path

www.usatoday.com

Time with details and includes some maps

 

[Deleted member 718]

A video from ITV (an UK MSM network) At about 4:00 the reporter says a neighbor told him that he frequently saw Kohberger in the company of an Asian girl - often laughing and joking - and on the night of the murder he saw him right in front of the apartment complex acting normally.

 

[layer]

New here so hopefully I'm replying to the right comment. This is something I was thinking about - if he turned his phone off or put it in airplane mode on his way there (like the PCA suggests) and wasn't on again until much later/out of range of King Rd.) how would the WiFi have even been able to pick it up?

Just to be clear, the context in which SG said that was the historical data - the 12 times he did ping towers, in the months before the murders.

 

[CityKid]

Yeah, not sure what people think they need in order to review the TapATalk materials (and possibly be convinced by content). NYT did its due diligence. It's obviously him, IMO.

There are tons of details that match what his friends will go on to say about him. Watching the videos of that one friend (the one who did heroin with him) and thinking about how much these 10 year old posts say the same thing is very convincing. But of course, so is having the actual name and address of that email account holder. Ahem.

Yeah, for me the email and tiny town in Pennsylvania matching did it for me. I'm not saying the NYT staff always gets it right, but when they do a deep dive, they generally bring receipts and get it right.

 

[persimm0n]

I agree with you. It could very well be that he was in the area for legitimate reasons, and that being in the area is how he first crossed paths with the victims. It is easy to forget that we don't know what we don't know - meaning, there may be all kinds of people talking to LE but not the media. Romantic partner, friend, drug dealer, who knows. MOO

All of these things are totally reasonable to consider in the mind of a non biased jury member, as well as the pages and pages of old blog posts believed to be his in which he talks about struggling with insomnia and OCD. His neighbors were saying from the beginning that he was weird because he was "up all night vacuuming and running the garbage disposal" that's a good thing for his defense to hear, they could easily say he was normally up all night and just went out for a drive to get fresh air. I'm not looking for reasons to find him innocent, but it's super important as with any case this public that people try to at least keep the standard of "innocent until proven guilty" in the back of their minds. There's almost 6 months between now and the trial starting, some people (Reddit mostly) post some of the most wild speculations that just spread like wildfire it makes me feel like he already has a chance at a mistrial.

 

[10ofRods]

"Burner phones" have come a long way over the last ten years or so. Now they are more commonly referred to as "no contract phones" and most of them are smart phones, but much less expensive plans. We have Samsung Galaxy smart phones from Verizon and pay about $65 a month for the two lines. We've upgraded over the last ten years several times. You register them yourself online, you can use your real name or not, and use your real address or not. And you can pay for monthly minutes using Verizon phone cards if you want.

The only down side for us is that international phone calls are not included, so we use Skype for that, and our phones can receive incoming texts from people in the countries we need to communicate with when not on Skype.


Edited to correct "Samsung"

Your phone is still using Verizon as a provider, though. If necessary, LE can (easily) get all the records from your device number. Every single phone has to have one and that's how cell phone "ping" reports are generated - then the provider gives up your phone number to LE upon receipt of a warrant or subpoena. Which is what happened in this case.

For all we know, BK's phone *was* paid in cash every month and it didn't help him at all because the actual cellular network is guarded by various protocols. The pattern of usage is going to say a lot about who owns the phone, right?

Now, if you only used your phones in the commission of crimes (so it was off most of the time) and then tried to find random places miles and miles away from any of your usual places of residency or work, you could probably keep it up for a while. But eventually, they'd follow you in real time as they narrowed down more and more your possible area of operation (that's what Stingray is for).

So as mentioned in the above article, you can fly under radar for a very long time, but if your phone pings in an area where a major crime has been committed, the very fact that a person with a fake name and address registered the phone is going to be a Big Red Flag. Takes a very short time for the FBI to get this kind of data and they have software to cross reference (in this case, BK's phone pings 12 more times in the neighborhood, making him stand out within the data they were collecting).

There is no safe way to use a "burner phone" to commit a major crime, fake name/address or not (that'll just be used in court). The best thing to do would be to throw that phone in the ocean or a big lake afterwards.

Presumably, anyone wanting a burner phone to remain a burner would not use it for any regular phone calls (the people to whom you make the calls know your real identity, presumably, at least some of the time - your carrier will give up all that data upon presentation of the right LE document). You would never use the phone at home (you imply that you do). It would be very, very easy to find that phone, IMO. Of course, you're not a criminal, so no worries, but there is no way to "privately" use a phone.

 

[persimm0n]

Just to be clear, the context in which SG said that was the historical data - the 12 times he did ping towers, in the months before the murders.

Thanks for clarifying! For some reason I thought it was mentioned as only on the night of the murders.

 

[al66pine]

ID. Prisons

If convicted? Forever? Certainly not.,Either death row or general,population. [p/QUOTE]
@Falcon500
FWIW, just found this from St. of ID. adopted in 1995:
"Idaho Department of Correction
Standard Operating Procedure
Inmates Under Sentence of Death"
Have not read yet, have not tried to determine whether still current.

I'd appreciate any thoughts, if/when you have time to summarize, interpret, comment. Always great to read opinions from our verified insiders & professionals. TiA.

____________________________

http://forms.idoc.idaho.gov/WebLink/0/edoc/281013/Inmates%20Under%20Sentence%20of%20Death.pdf

Also: Death Row | Idaho Department of Correction

 

[10ofRods]

Just to be clear, the context in which SG said that was the historical data - the 12 times he did ping towers, in the months before the murders.

Right. SG is saying that at least one time, he got close enough to be within the Beacon Frame of the router of 1122 (I learned "Beacon Frame" just yesterday).

 

[Palinsmom]

What evidence did he have to throw away prior to the murders, though? Would definitely be of interest if after the murders.

IMO he was either just cruising around / killing time (looks like this guy likes to drive based on how far he was going that night and the next morning for seemingly no reason) or he had another house he liked to watch in that other residential area.

Just speculation on my part, maybe he was getting dressed into the clothing he planned to wear during the murders?

Only a suggestive guess.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Well, yes.

With just this one detail, we see the way his thought processes/personality are pulling him into a certain path. He would have been *much* better off figuring out how to use trails and the wood line to hide his approach to the house (as opposed to driving his car in circles around the neighborhood 4 times, getting got on multiple cameras and then pulling into the actual parking lot of the house - which, even though invisible to cameras - was the only place he could be without reappearing on a camera. again).

So he didn't suss out his trail into the house. The ways in which he could have improved his crime, just around this one issue, are mindblowing to me. He should have left his phone at home. Then, he should have parked any number of places (earlier in the evening) than right outside the house and walked to the house.

But he didn't. So, I think that car is his little personal shell. I don't know how long he has had the car, but it is his portable personal (psychological) armor and he could not manage, somehow, without driving it right up to the murder scene. He didn't think to disguise the lack of a front plate (easily done). He needed that car to keep him less anxious, somehow.

And THEN, he turns his phone back on some 20 minutes later, heading south out of Moscow. Why?? He turns it off as he approaches Moscow, then turns it back on as he leaves after murdering 4 people, which is very suspicious.

Something compelled him to do this crime in this particular way. I almost want to say he did the best he could do, but he couldn't function with that phone and that car. Basically, he was very dependent upon them, they are practically part of him.

I can kind of imagine the thought process of "Hey, my car doesn't have a front plate, so maybe if I'm caught on video from the front, they won't have a plate to trace." But that blank space where an Idaho plate would be was itself a clue. I can also see how BK would underestimate how many cameras are out there, especially those on homes. (In his more rural but gated Pennsylvania neighborhood, maybe Ring cameras aren't as common as they are in urban and high-population suburban neighborhoods.) But even as I have these thoughts, I wonder how the car and the phone weren't problematic for him in whatever planning he did.
Edited to close the parenthetical comment.

 

[10ofRods]

I'm reserving judgment on BK being the author at this point in time MOO

I asked whether you've read them. Is your response with or without having read them? Just curious. I think it's easier to decide about the material if you've read it. MOO.

 

[debbiediablo]

Not sure if this has already been addressed...
His professor at DeSales, the renowned Katherine Ramsland, said she was aware of his survey. It was for his upcoming PHD work at WSU, and the form of the survey is not as unusual as people think it is. She had a word for that form of survey, I'll try to dig it up.

Can you dig up the citation for Ramsland's comments, too, please? I've been convinced or a long time that this survey was meant for his dissertation... and that BCK planned to answer his own survey as the Idaho co-ed killer which would create a sensation in the criminology/criminal justice/forensic psychology community. Of course, this wouldn't be nearly so effective if he got caught, but imagine if his identity remained unknown. As a survey respondent he'd have all the answers to those crime details that no one but LE would know, and as Bryan Kohberger he'd have a connection with the co-ed killer (himself) similar to Ramsland and Dennis Rader. BCK's reputation would be established before he dotted the final "i" and crossed the final "t" on his dissertation. MOO

 

[Stephen2022]

The State does not have to offer you the option of pleading guilty. That is your right.

In Idaho, it appears that after a guilty finding (whether by trial or by plea) for matters that could result in a death sentence (murder in first degree), there is a separate investigation and hearing on the sentencing that entails a whole picture of the situation, from defendant's background to victim family statements/impact. Specifically they look for statutory aggravating factors as well as mitigating factors. If there is a statutory aggravating factor (multiple murders is the second one listed, but there are 11 or 12) and any mitigating factors don't exist that, weighed as a whole, would make death an unjust penalty, the sentence is death. If aggravating exists and sufficient mitigating, LWOP. If no aggravating, life (minimum 10 years).

Section 19-2515 – Idaho State Legislature

legislature.idaho.gov

Mitigation is defined in jury instructions for a DP sentencing hearing this way:

https://isc.idaho.gov/jury/criminal/1700/DeathPenaltySentencingInst-All.pdf

That said, in reality the death penalty even in Idaho is rare, and actual executions rarer still. Most die on death row, or have sentences reduced on appeal, or sometimes exonerated. There hasn't been an execution in Idaho 10 years, and iirc one recently scheduled was canceled for lack of drug availability. They've only carried out 3 executions since 1957 (1994, 2011, 2012). There are 8 people on death row as of December 2022, but although between 2011-2019 there were 173 DP-eligible convictions, only one resulted in a sentence of death.

The Declining Death Penalty in Idaho

Jacqueline Lee earned her Ph.D. in Criminology and Criminal Justice from the University of Maryland...

www.boisestate.edu

DP prosecutions are extremely expensive and politically fraught (likewise death sentences themselves; it is appeal after appeal usually). I doubt the prosecution will take it off the table anytime soon, but I also doubt they really want to ask for a death sentence if they get a guilty. The prosecution has to file a notice of intent to seek the DP, and I'm not clear on when that happens, though I assume it could be withdrawn at any point prior to actual sentencing.

Imo death penalty could be taken off the table if full confession and enough provided by BK to satisfy family. This has greater chance if dna, or blood of any of the victims was obtained in BK car as that would be hard to explain away.

 

[10ofRods]

What evidence did he have to throw away prior to the murders, though? Would definitely be of interest if after the murders.

IMO he was either just cruising around / killing time (looks like this guy likes to drive based on how far he was going that night and the next morning for seemingly no reason) or he had another house he liked to watch in that other residential area.

Oh, receipts for a knife, for new seat covers, large plastic bags, a ski mask. Packaging for much of this. Quite a bit, I assume. Receipts and packaging for Van's shoes. Any photos of him wearing Van's shoes.

So, pocket trash and packaging.

Frankly, given the advanced state of fiber analysis, he ought to have thrown out any packaging for the clothes he wore that night, in addition to throwing away the clothes afterwards.

 

[Friday Fan]

This comes from "In Cold, Cold Blood" by Howard Blum from AirMail news. Blum's info here comes from MPD Sgt. Shaine Gunderson who was highest ranking among the first three officers to enter the crime scene:

"It was a quick trip. The roads leading into the university neighborhood that Sunday were as empty as the classrooms. And as soon as Gunderson’s black-and-white cruiser pulled up behind the neat row of cars parked in the driveway of the austere cantilevered house on King Road, he immediately knew something was very wrong.'

"It was the noise: there wasn’t any. Just an eerie, unnatural silence. A cluster of young people, university students presumably, were milling outside the open front door of 1122 like gulls on a beach. And yet they were exceptionally quiet. They weren’t merely subdued. They seemed stunned, as if drained by a deep and intense shock. When the three mystified officers approached the front door, someone in the crowd, it would later be shared, muttered a single, plaintive word: 'Dead.'

"Still, Gunderson would confess to others, he was unprepared for the strong smell of blood that rose up in his nostrils the moment he walked inside."

This interview - firsthand, first on-site account, highly credentialed investigative journalist - flies in the face of all the reports that people were screaming, sobbing, running in terror, fainting. And it segues directly into Dylan's highly similar behavior. All of them were shocked, stunned, traumatized into absolute silence.

MOO

An Exclusive Look Inside the Idaho Murders: Part I

In Part I of his investigation, Howard Blum travels to the quaint town of Moscow and reveals new details about the crime—and the manhunt.

airmail.news

Been there, done that. Except it was an earthquake. I was only 8. I knew what it was, but I couldn't get the words out of my mouth. All of a sudden, can't remember whether it was me or my mom, shouted "Earthquake", then we sprung into action. Until the words came out, we were frozen, starring at each other with these huge eyes

 

[pittsburghgirl]

I teach a lab class that has a unit on using maps. It is like pulling teeth. I end up having to project a Google map of our campus in order to show them that maps typically put the orientation as North by default (they don't know this) and that the opposite direction is always South (half of them do not know this). And so on. I point out that the actual size of each building is accurately to scale, so their own maps must be accurate as possible (etc).

We do a campus "scavenger hunt" using a paper map. Oh my. Well, after that assignment everyone realizes that teamwork is important and that the 5-6 excellent map readers should be split up and assigned to different teams.

All that being said, some people just really suck at navigation and others seem naturally gifted in that area. Some people tell me they get lost very easily. Some of my students are still being dropped off at campus by grandma or another family member. If I choose several well known locales near campus and ask them to map them onto a properly oriented map, it's almost impossible for them to do from memory. What's the closest way to get to the beach? They don't know, they would usually just consult Google. How many miles is it to the beach, approximately? Some know, most are wild guesses. If I ask everyone to stand up and face the direction they believe to be South, there will be varied responses, with people guessing who is right and then mimicking that person (who is often wrong). It doesn't help that the local freeway onramp that's closest labels the directions "northbound and southbound" when in fact, right where that offramp is, it's actually East/West traffic for a few miles.

I am thinking BK is not one of the navigationally gifted. I don't think he knew better than to tailgate. I don't think he's spatially aware. Or temporally aware (aware of how many times he made the same mistake in an hour, for example).

At 63 yrs old, I still have and love my Rand McNally Road Maps. My daughter had a HS class in Orienteering, which I had never heard of, but fascinating...Navigating with a Compass. Everyone should learn this impov---I have no clue, but thrilled she does Wish I had you as a teacher when I was in school

[/QUOTE]

One of the big problems of over-reliance on internet maps is that if you find yourself in a place where your phone has no service, you might drive for miles in the wrong direction. I always carry a paper map of any state I am traveling in. Simple thing to pull off the road, find a restroom, get a snack, and look at a map.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Oh, receipts for a knife, for new seat covers, large plastic bags, a ski mask. Packaging for much of this. Quite a bit, I assume. Receipts and packaging for Van's shoes. Any photos of him wearing Van's shoes.

So, pocket trash and packaging.

Frankly, given the advanced state of fiber analysis, he ought to have thrown out any packaging for the clothes he wore that night, in addition to throwing away the clothes afterwards.

The recent Pike County murder trial made much of a receipt for shoes bought at Walmart and worn at the murder scene.

 

[Ccging]

A video from ITV (an UK MSM network) At about 4:00 the reporter says a neighbor told him that he frequently saw Kohberger in the company of an Asian girl - often laughing and joking - and on the night of the murder he saw him right in front of the apartment complex acting normally.

Interesting. Frequently with the same girl. Hope she’s seen on camera at his apartment and police have interviewed her.

 

[10ofRods]

Can you dig up the citation for Ramsland's comments, too, please? I've been convinced or a long time that this survey was meant for his dissertation... and that BCK planned to answer his own survey as the Idaho co-ed killer which would create a sensation in the criminology/criminal justice/forensic psychology community. Of course, this wouldn't be nearly so effective if he got caught, but imagine if his identity remained unknown. As a survey respondent he'd have all the answers to those crime details that no one but LE would know, and as Bryan Kohberger he'd have a connection with the co-ed killer (himself) similar to Ramsland and Dennis Rader. BCK's reputation would be established before he dotted the final "i" and crossed the final "t" on his dissertation. MOO

He hadn't started a doctoral program yet. His dissertation plans would have to be filed at WSU in Year 2 (or 3). IMO.

He can't start a dissertation without a committee and an advisor/ethical overseer. He can pretend he's doing that, but he is NOT doing that until he is properly matriculated into a doctoral program (which he was, but in August, 2022 - after he put up the survey).

He also used the DeSales email as his response point for that work - so NOT a dissertation. Attempt at a Master's thesis. And his prof acknowledges it as such. He has to have an institution and a professor as advisor to be doing either a thesis or a dissertation, but he can't do his dissertation work for WSU under a data collection point registered to DeSales. That's extremely hinky.

He certainly could have submitted many answers to his own q'naire, but apparently did not, as he didn't come up with "enough data."

All answers given to the survey submitted while at DeSales would have to stay at DeSales, IMO; published under the supervision of his professor there.