ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 67

[Montecore1]

"Beyond a shadow of a doubt" is EXACTLY the language used during voir dire to indicate what the prosecution is NOT required to provide.

With four, attractive, young, white people horribly slaughtered, most juries will be anxious to convict, which isn't to say they will ignore their sworn duty. It's really too early to worry, but given conviction rates we should be concerned that BK gets a fair trial!

"I personally hope and pray that a member of any jury would only convict someone if they believe beyond a shadow of a doubt that the person is indeed guilty, but thats just me."

Reread what I wrote... this is what I personally would hope a juror would do before convicting someone to death.


My question to you is why did you feel a need to express the victims were "white people"? Are you suggesting jurors would be less likely to give a guilty verdict if the victims were of another race?

 

[avalonisland]

If it's a bloody glove I don't want to know!

I just don't believe BK would leave a bloody glove in his apartment especially since his Dad came to see BK mid December and drive with BK to Pennsylvania. I would think BK would have his apartment free of any hairs and blood if BK did in fact commit this horrific crime.

 

[avalonisland]

The fact that all of this evidence was in his apartment a month after the murders is sort of mind blowing. IMO

I agree and plus, BK's Dad came to visit BK mid Dec and drive with BK to Pennsylvania. With BK's background in criminology, BK would know to clean up fairs and get rid of any stains that could link to murders. I think BK planted some stuff in his apartment if BK did in fact commit the crimes.

 

[Recidivist]

It depends on the case and the jurisdiction as to whether the jury is sequestered. If there's a media frenzy, often the thinking is the jurors need to be protected from outside pressures. In his book on the O.J. case, Vince Bugliosi argued that sequestering the jury was one of five key factors that caused the (in his view, wrongful) acquittal.

I've been a juror on a murder trial in Santa Monica (where the OJ civil trial was held) and, even though the victim's father was an Emmy-nominated actor, we were NOT sequestered.

Was it Ennis?

 

[WildWest]

I guess, but because of the weird intersection in front of DM's door the killer had to pass through there three times, no matter what.

YES, at first when I read the AA I assumed the killer was walking from X's hallway to the kitchen slider, but well could have been the killer walking down the stairs and turning to the slider. I'm still mystified that someone could do this to other human beings, much less ones self, since we know they'll be caught. Mental Illness breaks my heart, and I know it does to most of too. As well as the pain left for all family, friends, other neighbors, students, and the community as well.

 

[Twistinginthewind]

Did I somehow lose the right to edit my own post?

10ofRods clarified his/her use of terms in a later post and I wanted to delete my post as shown above. The system is giving me no "edit" option, unfortunately, though it is allowing me to reply to myself.

Sorry, 10. This thread is on fire and I was catching up...

(ETA I can edit THIS post, so that previous one must have been a glitch in the Matrix.)

AFAIK a post can be edited within a half hour to an hour of posting (while the blue "Edit" icon is still showing on the lower left), but it may depend on how quickly the posts on the case's Threads are filling up the Thread (50 or so pages per Thread, then a new Thread is established after which the Posts on the previous thread can't be edited after a certain amount of time, or replied to after the Thread is closed and a new one is opened).

After that, you have to resort to other measures if you want to edit or clarify what you said in your post, like copying it & pasting it into a new post & editing that with something like "bringing this over from my previous post", and editing it to say "...".

The Threads on this case and others do move on pretty fast, and after The Thread you posted on is filled up (around 50 pages or so), the Mods create a New Thread that starts anew (doesn't allow comments or edits on posts in the previous thread), but you can copy posts from previous threads to post about thereafter. The Mods have instructions on copying posts from closed threads (see the first few pages of every thread), and have posted about how to do it on this case.

JMO

 

[drmrgrl]

Jumpsuit for Men | Dickies

If the above item is the one BK purchased, here is the full description:



RBBM

Note my bolding in red above.

JMVHO.

IMO, now I could see BK having one of these, since he has experience in HVAC-that would make sense to me.

 

[scottr]

The distance from the one bloody footprint noted in the PCA to the nearest victim would mean there would have to be other footprints.
As far as when the specific footprint was left outside DM's door, all we can say with certainty is that it was made after someone was stabbed (hence the blood). But it could have been left at the point where the killer was going between the two murder bedrooms - from X's room to M's, or vice versa, depending on the order of the murders. Or, as you suggested, on his way out of the scene as he passed by DM.

Either way, you're right. The whole forensic booties theory is blown.

I don't think that one found latent shoe print means there would have to be other shoe prints as you've suggested. We don't know enough about the print to speculate. It's easy to assume that this was a print of an entire shoe and imagine a person stepping into a puddle of blood only to leave tracks behind but the print as noted in the pca was detected during a second processing of the crime scene. And le used amino black to confirm that it was blood. In moo, it was not obvious to le and it's not unlikely they didn't find any other prints.

 

[want2solveit]

ADMIN NOTE:

If you aren't sure if a source is approved, please seek approval before discussing any of the content. It makes thread cleanup so much more difficult and time-consuming when Mods have to go through pages and pages of posts to remove the OP and all the responses, and responses to those responses, etc.

Just as an example, yesterday out of many, many pages of Reports, just 2 pages alone were 40 Reports with 38 of them relating to this discussion alone. Mods are swamped with this discussion. Please don't make things more difficult for them.

Thank you.

ETA: Also, please move on from the discussion as to whether E was or was not drunk as there is nothing to substantiate either way. It is speculation that is not based on any known fact, and is not victim friendly. As per TOS:

"Discussing known victim behavior, good or bad is fine, but do so in a civil and constructive way, and only when such behavior is known to be relevant to the case."

The qualifying word in the above is "known".

I don't think that one found latent shoe print means there would have to be other shoe prints as you've suggested. We don't know enough about the print to speculate. It's easy to assume that this was a print of an entire shoe and imagine a person stepping into a puddle of blood only to leave tracks behind but the print as noted in the pca was detected during a second processing of the crime scene. And le used amino black to confirm that it was blood. In moo, it was not obvious to le and it's not unlikely they didn't find any other prints.

We know le forensics have certain chemicals that will bring out even small traces of blood. If those are used, other prints may be found, imo. I have just looked through the recent posts and didn't see this. Sorry if it's already up:

Search warrant: Glove, hair, reddish-brown stain seized from Kohberger's apartment

Authorities collected a disposable black glove, hair strands and a pillow with a reddish-brown stain among other items during a search of a Washington State University apartment unit rented by the man accused of killing four University of Idaho students.

www.spokesman.com

 

[Cindizzi]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1615865106864406529

 

[Twistinginthewind]

IMO, now I could see BK having one of these, since he has experience in HVAC-that would make sense to me.

If the Dickies brand full suit (if the tag LE listed in the search warrant was for it, and it was a recent purchase since BK moved to WA in August of 2022) was something BK purchased recently & there is no record of him moving there to work in HVAC or working in the HVAC business there since he arrived, & he was there in WA to be a full time PhD student & TA at WSU, that would not make sense, IMO.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

We know le forensics have certain chemicals that will bring out even small traces of blood. If those are used, other prints may be found, imo. I have just looked through the recent posts and didn't see this. Sorry if it's already up:

Search warrant: Glove, hair, reddish-brown stain seized from Kohberger's apartment

Authorities collected a disposable black glove, hair strands and a pillow with a reddish-brown stain among other items during a search of a Washington State University apartment unit rented by the man accused of killing four University of Idaho students.

www.spokesman.com

I read it as 8 "possible strands of hair" and 1 "possible pet hair." Although, I'm not sure why it's written that way??

 

[I'm Nobody]

Examples of acquittals in cases with vast, circumstantial evidence?

There's always O.J.

Chester Weger Starved Rock 3 women brutally murdered 1960. Chester Weger confessed, recanted, served nearly 60 years in prison before new DNA in 2020 found 1 hair on a victim not matching Weger, leading to his parole. He is hoping for exoneration.

I don't know if Weger did it or not. Chilling to think if he is innocent the real killer got away with it.
As a child my family loved going to Starved Rock until that happened. After the murders we never went back. I still haven't been back. Not logical I know.

Sorry I'm a little behind.

Attorney presents evidence that 'Starved Rock Killer' Chester Weger hopes will lead to his exoneration

Weger was accused and later convicted of killing three women in the state park in 1960. He has maintained his innocence all along, and was released from prison on parole in February 2020.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[drmrgrl]

Fam/Grad Handbook | at WSU

housing.wsu.edu

The Steptoe apts have the option of renting furniture and also share a community laundry room. Stray hairs and fibers would be likely. Testing might narrow it down but this article says they'd need the hair root to get DNA. Not sure about animal hair but I'd imagine similar findings. I'm hoping some evidence in the car will nail him.

DNA Hanging by a Hair

How many types of DNA do we have, and why?When we talk about our genes – those inherited from our parents, those which determine our eye or hair color and numerous other traits, and those which we refer to when we say that something is "in our genes" – we are talking about the genetic material...

davidson.weizmann.ac.il

IMO, it would be interesting to know if someone on campus saw BK in the laundry room. What time?, date, items being laundered. Just a thought.

 

[layer]

I don't think that one found latent shoe print means there would have to be other shoe prints as you've suggested. We don't know enough about the print to speculate. It's easy to assume that this was a print of an entire shoe and imagine a person stepping into a puddle of blood only to leave tracks behind but the print as noted in the pca was detected during a second processing of the crime scene. And le used amino black to confirm that it was blood. In moo, it was not obvious to le and it's not unlikely they didn't find any other prints.

However much of the shoeprint there was, it was enough for them to recognize the diamond pattern associated with Vans. I can't give an exact number of steps required to get from either X's room and this intersection, or M's room and this intersection. M's would require going down the hall and down the stairs before that point. X's would require going down a hall and through the living room before that point. Either way, a decent number of steps. There should also be bloody footprints leaving the front of DM's room going toward the sliding glass door. Absolute minimum of 16 footsteps perhaps? If the blood was only on one shoe, which seems likely, then every other step should leave a bloody footprint. The only way around that would be for the blood to be toward the back heel of the shoe, with the killer walking on the balls of his feet everywhere except for this one spot. Seems unlikely to me, but I guess we'll see.

 

[Zella]

found 1 hair on a victim not matching Weger, leading to his parole.

Not an example of circumstantial cases with acquittals but one where hair tested long after the fact proved rather damning (in a case already with a conviction)--Jeffrey MacDonald long claimed that hair found in his murdered wife's hand would exonerate him because whoever it belonged to killed her. They finally tested it. And it was his.

It will be really interesting to see what comes back about the hair found in the apartment in this case. MOO

 

[drmrgrl]

Thank you @Nila Aella, @ray9898 and @NyxNY for your replies, especially the clarification about it being only a latent print.

I finally read the Airmail article by Blum, linked several threads ago, which describes a "cluster of young people" already present by the time LE arrived. So multiple people could have stepped in some blood there, or, since this seems to have been a party house, it could be anyone's really.
I don't understand the part where Blum says the survivors called their friends after they "found it impossible to rouse their roommates". Weird way to put it considering how obvious the roommates' condition must have been. Perhaps he is just extrapolating that from the 911 "unconscious" terminology?
Hopefully the print will still be a helpful element in spite of it only being a latent one and all these other people coming over to the house before LE.
Sorry if all this has been said before! I am very late to this topic and will try to read a lot more before I post any more questions!

IMO, it’s entirely possible that the downstairs roommates didn’t want to get some of the victims in trouble for underage drinking, hence the delayed call to 911.

 

[drmrgrl]

The warrant is looking for dark clothing but no clothing is noted on the Return of Service. I think he disposed of the (Dickies receipt) Walmart clothing and the blood stains on the pillow and mattress are from his own injuries, which LE may suspect happened during the murders. If he has evidence of recently healed cuts, it still is useful evidence. moo

https://int.nyt.com/data/documenttools/search%20warrant%20for%20bryan%20kohberger%20apartment/ddb059f6cc8e24c1/full.pdf

IMO, is it possible that BK had defensive wounds on his body?

 

[layer]

IMO, it’s entirely possible that the downstairs roommates didn’t want to get some of the victims in trouble for underage drinking, hence the delayed call to 911.

There was only 1 downstairs roommate, the one on the second floor was in "a frozen shock phase".

 

[DWillS]

JMO: Once LE publicly announced that they were looking for a white Elantra then BK would've known that he probably didn't get away with it and they'd eventually give him some more scrutiny. Between then and when they started to particularly focus on him he had a window of time to try to further get rid of any evidence.