ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 70

[Nova]

That wasn’t my point, and I didn’t judge either way on the effects of a plea bargain. The OP I was responding to was specifically saying the production of a weapon in the course of a plea bargain was unimportant. I disagree with that. ETA: MOO

I'm sorry if I misunderstood you and particularly if I misrepresented your point.

I thought you were saying that his giving up the weapon is the only way to know for sure that BK is guilty. I think the victims' loved ones--and we the public--will be satisfied with a conviction.

Only time will tell for sure.

 

[Nova]

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For those worried about BK's rights to a fair trial, I pointed out that this won't happen because her description of the person she saw was put in writing like all witness statements are. And they are often video recorded too.

I pointed out If she changes her statement at trial the defense and/or the prosecution will have her read her statement on the stand and address any discrepancies in front of the Jury.

I just saw this done in a murder trial. 2 witnesses gave inconsistent statements and the prosecution had one witness read back the statement she gave to police and corrected the other witness.

2 Cents

<modsnip - quoted post was snipped>

If DM is suddenly much more sure that BK was the intruder (as opposed to merely stating he has traits that are similar to those of the intruder), then I expect the defense to make much of how her memory became "enhanced".

Your choice of words ("address any discrepancies") sounds more benign than the process may be if her testimony changes drastically. Just because discrepancies are addressed doesn't mean the jury ends up with full faith in the witness. There's a reason they say a witness "has to be rehabilitated on cross".

But this is all speculation right now. We don't know that DM's testimony will change. We don't even know all of what she told LE, weeks before BK was named a suspect. I, for one, see no reason to be alarmed at this point.

 

[Sundog]

It sounds interesting to find out more about it.

I never heard that these 2 Universities were in close proximity and that it was common for students to go back and forth. I never heard of students driving that far to use a different University's facilities when they have the exact same facilities at their own University and can just go online for information instead of driving out of town to another University's library. When my friends and I didn't want to eat in our college cafeteria we went to restaurants or got take out or cooked food in the dorm kitchen.

I get your point but would like to know if this is a common thing. If not common at all, then why was BK hanging around? If common, then it makes more sense for him to be there.

It's not common for undergraduate students, but it is common for graduate and doctoral students. Especially use of libraries. Some have better collections in some fields/disciplines than others. Some have different or better journal collections that you might want to use. Many universities have more than one library on campus, especially if there is a medical school as part of the university. Not just use of the library, but other events as well - visiting speakers, lecturers, a film shown, etc.

Or as someone posted earlier, possibly the food. It's hard to say, but definitely not unusual. And ten miles is close proximity, doesn't get much closer. I've driven much further to use a university library when doing research and wanted a source right away that wasn't available on my own campus. And most university libraries in a region will have a lending agreement with their sister institutions.

I do wonder about parking, though. I guess BK could have purchased a day pass at a campus kiosk, or something like that.

 

[Nova]

RBBM, Nova.
I have great admiration for the knowledge and creativity of many of these defense strategies that have been presented here. I'm just praying that no one on the defense team is reading here.
Sometimes I feel like we're floating up a test balloon to check crowd reactions as to acceptance or rejection of various scenarios they might consider using. MOO

I don't think you need to worry. Nobody here is saying anything that hasn't been written in a hundred true-crime videos, another hundred podcasts, and dozens of YouTube videos.

Whether he stays with the PD or gets some ambitious attorney willing to take BK's case pro bono for the reputation s/he will gain, BK's team will have thought of anything we mere observers invent.

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

I hope they can keep DM’s testimony short and simple at trial. She is a survivor of a mass murder in her home. I can only imagine how retraumatizing it will be to sit in the courtroom with BK and relive that night‘s horrors.

steeltowngirl, This is so perceptive.
I was only in a car accident. A bad one. Five injured and three hospitalized. After I was released from the hospital - I had relived it so many times and had so many others tell me what happened that I was thankful it didn't go to trial because I was to the point that I wasn't even sure it was my own memory I was recalling or the description of the others who were in the car with me.
Trauma does not enhance accurate memory. It doesn't matter if it's physical or emotional. I would have been a worthless witness.
Yes - keep it short and simple!

 

[Boxer]

Most places serve a garden salad.

It sounds interesting to find out more about it.

I never heard that these 2 Universities were in close proximity and that it was common for students to go back and forth. I never heard of students driving that far to use a different University's facilities when they have the exact same facilities at their own University and can just go online for information instead of driving out of town to another University's library. When my friends and I didn't want to eat in our college cafeteria we went to restaurants or got take out or cooked food in the dorm kitchen.

I get your point but would like to know if this is a common thing. If not common at all, then why was BK hanging around? If common, then it makes more sense for him to be there.

Personally, I don’t think it common, but of and it itself even if uncommon, MOO it is not really relevant.

But if he was there to stalk it is relevant.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

WE don't know much, but we can deduce that's what LE has in the 3000 pages of discovery we haven't seen. IMO

No problem, but I don't think that's a given. JMO. We all have different opinions on this so I was asking if there were facts I was missing or if that poster's post was based on opinion.

 

[WingsOverTX]

I used other university's libraries when I was in college and grad school. Not every library system has access to the same databases. For a seminar paper I had to do for my undergraduate history degree, I spent all day at another college's library using their databases that were unavailable to me at my college and were not accessible without a library.

I actually still use a friend's library card for another state to access databases the library I work for doesn't have subscriptions for and have emailed friends still in academia for them to take pity on me and download an article for me. I also still maintain alumni status at a university I graduated from for the sole reason that their library system has access to stuff my public library doesn't.

Research material isn't necessarily easily googled, so it's really not accurate to say it's all just online and could be accessed from anywhere. MOO

I suspect if BK was prowling around the Idaho campus, he had ill intent. But I wouldn't rule out that he had a legitimate purpose in being there, particularly the library.

That was my experience in grad school. A 2nd nearby university library was newer & had a nicer study environment so I spent a lot of time there. On weekends when I traveled to see family I would use a university library in that area to access resources & write assignments.

As you point out, universities vary in their book holdings & access to online resources so having access to more than one can be a way to overcome barriers like interlibrary loan waits.

When I lived in another city with two universities, I checked out books at the private one using a "share" card offered to public library card holders in Texas. It was awesome!

I have never visited these campuses in Pullman & Moscow but would not be surprised if many graduate students frequent both.

Those People mag reports of BK staring at people are very interesting. He stood out as odd in an under the radar kind of way that is very creepy in hindsight.

JMO

 

[Nova]

Why would them having drugs in their systems matter at all? They are victims. IMO

I believe the thinking was that, depending on the drug, evidence of illegal drug use might suggest that in order to procure illegal narcotics, the victims had to interact with people of questionable character.

This isn't my theory. It's just how I understood the post to which you responded.

I'm sure nobody is saying anybody deserved to die.

 

[Nova]

The possibility that DM worked with a sketch artist immediately after is a great point. If that is standard procedure then she probably did! MOO

But we know the intruder was masked. If he also had any sort of head covering on to protect his hair from blood spatter, DM may not have had much to tell a sketch artist.

 

[Zella]

having access to more than one can be a way to overcome barriers like interlibrary loan waits.

Yep despite working at a library, I have still used my alumni status to request stuff from the university library of a place I no longer attend because I get interlibrary loan books so much faster that way. I've also just driven over there to get the book there rather than wait for it come to me via ILL at my home library.

Unless you've spent time doing academic research, it may not readily be apparent how different various libraries can be, especially ones connected to universities. WSU and UI can both have great libraries and still have completely different collections with very differing specialties that have students schlepping back and forth between them. MOO

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

Not directing this post at you, but just jumping off your post due to the subject matter. When BK was first arrested in PA and we all saw the photos of him for the first time, I don't remember anyone here commenting on his eyebrows, although I could have forgotten or missed such a post. There were a lot of posts about his eyes, but none that I recall about his eyebrows.

When I refer to a person's eyes I don't even register the color of them. I am only impressed by their expression - which, of course, includes their eyebrows.
IMO, when people say "eyes" it generally includes the eyebrows as well. MOO

 

[Sundog]

Reciprocal Parking - PTS | University of Idaho

Reciprocal Parking

www.uidaho.edu

University of Idaho and WSU have reciprocal parking, so wonder if BK ever applied for the U of Idaho permit that he would need to display when parking on U of Idaho campus.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

CAST is mentioned in the PCA. They are on it for sure.

"These records also included historical cell site location information (CSLI) for the 8458 Phone. After receiving this information, I consulted with an FBI Special Agent (SA) that is certified as a member of the Cellular Analysis Survey Team (CAST). Members of CAST are certified with the FBI to provide expert testimony in the field of historical CSLI and are required to pass extensive training that includes both written and practical examinations prior to be certified with CAST as well as the completion of yearly certification requirements. Additionally, the FBI CAST SA that I consulted with has over fifteen years of federal law enforcement experience, which includes six years with the FBI. From information provided by CAST, I was able to determine estimated locations for the 8458 Phone from November 12, 2022 to November 13,2022,t he lime period authorized by the court."

(page 13) Read the affidavit on how investigators identified the Idaho killings suspect | CNN

Thank you for explaining where that came from. So much has been said, I'd forgotten what the PCA said.

 

[Boxer]

It sounds interesting to find out more about it.

I never heard that these 2 Universities were in close proximity and that it was common for students to go back and forth. I never heard of students driving that far to use a different University's facilities when they have the exact same facilities at their own University and can just go online for information instead of driving out of town to another University's library. When my friends and I didn't want to eat in our college cafeteria we went to restaurants or got take out or cooked food in the dorm kitchen.

I get your point but would like to know if this is a common thing. If not common at all, then why was BK hanging around? If common, then it makes more sense for him to be there.

MOO don’t see anything in U of Idaho graduate programs that looks like criminology, so the library would almost necessarily be less useful to a phD student in criminology. WSU ranked 195th out of 2000+ criminology programs, would assume their library to be pretty good.

Programs Offered-College of Graduate Studies-University of Idaho

The University of Idaho offers graduate degrees from 47 departments

www.uidaho.edu

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

It's not common for undergraduate students, but it is common for graduate and doctoral students. Especially use of libraries. Some have better collections in some fields/disciplines than others. Some have different or better journal collections that you might want to use. Many universities have more than one library on campus, especially if there is a medical school as part of the university. Not just use of the library, but other events as well - visiting speakers, lecturers, a film shown, etc.

Or as someone posted earlier, possibly the food. It's hard to say, but definitely not unusual. And ten miles is close proximity, doesn't get much closer. I've driven much further to use a university library when doing research and wanted a source right away that wasn't available on my own campus. And most university libraries in a region will have a lending agreement with their sister institutions.

I do wonder about parking, though. I guess BK could have purchased a day pass at a campus kiosk, or something like that.

My med school would honor parking passes from the other undergraduate colleges in town. Don't know if this is how it worked there, but it's possible.

 

[Nova]

The lead investigator in a murder trial I just watched last fall said he was reading social media.

I have always thought like you, that we are a good cross section of how some jurors might see the Case.

I've served on three juries on two coasts and I can't agree. WSers are far more knowledgeable about criminal law, forensics, trial procedure, other famous cases, etc., than any cross-section of average Americans.

My beloved sister and her daughter--bright, successful and college graduates both--know 4 undergrads were killed somewhere in Idaho. And that's it. They read headlines on the internet and little more (in terms of true crimes). The same was true of my East Coast cousins when I mentioned the case during our weekly "Zoom with Grandma".

Furthermore, in a real mock trial, the side paying for the exercise has detailed demographic info on each mock juror, and interviews each at length after the mock verdict, if any, is reached. Unless some of ya'll plan to give interviews in Moscow, the parties in the case we are discussing will have none of that info.

I really, really think we can all relax.

 

[Deleted member 718]

But we know the intruder was masked. If he also had any sort of head covering on to protect his hair from blood spatter, DM may not have had much to tell a sketch artist.

She might notice if he was injured. If he was carrying his hand or holding an an arm. Although, since he still had a mask on after stabbing four souls to death, it doesn't sound like they had much of a chance to close, moo

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

This is all just my opinion and I don't say it to be critical, but it seems that we've hit the point where there's no new information coming out thanks to the gag order so we're elevating every MSM article suggesting BK is a killer and dismissing, discounting, and tearing apart every article that suggests some evidence isn't as strong, such as the cell tower data.

It's going to be a long 4 months if we don't at least give some credence to experts weighing in. At the very least, I think they probably have better insight into these topics than, for instance, I do, having no expertise in this subject. This does concern me about seating an impartial jury.

JMO.

I so understand what you're saying, BeginnerSleuther. Except we can find so many experts' opinions that are contradictory to one another. So we ALL poke holes and criticize, don't we?
And isn't this what a jury faces sometimes?
I, too, am hoping for an honest and impartial and moral jury.

 

[Nova]

Wow!

A 9 page resume?? I was always taught it was best to keep it to 1 page. It's obvious there's no way in heck this guy could whittle down all his experience to 1 page. Impressive is an understatement.

C.V.'s (as they are called) in academia are as long as they need to be. The 1-page rule you mention applies to actors and folks applying for non-professional jobs.

It isn't a question of quantity over quality, but if you have 9 pages of publications, say, you include all 9 pages.