ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 71

Status
Not open for further replies.
  • #921
I don't think you have much experience with lawyers if you don't know they can make a lot out of a little....
...
Casey Anthony's lawyer got a not-guilty verdict with a story about a backyard drowning for which there was NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER.
...
Just because you and I don't believe something to be true isn't insurance that a defense attorney won't run with it.
RSBM. I agree with your first and last statements, but IMO your example and your conclusion from it is flawed. There WAS evidence including testimony that supported the defense argument in the CA case.

Defense attorneys cannot argue based on speculation, and juries are instructed in all cases that they are not to indulge in speculation when deciding whether the prosecution has proved its case.

IIRC, the prosecution in CA's case sought an order preventing the defense from arguing accidental drowning as the cause of Caylee's death, arguing as you do that supporting evidence was insufficient. The judge ruled that such an argument would be allowed based on inferences from admitted evidence, supported by witness testimony.

In addition, the accidental death argument was far from the only reason the jury could reasonably find CA not guilty. The defense vigorously attacked every bit of the prosecution's evidence, including the autopsy which was manifestly flawed. The main argument of the defense was that the prosecution's evidence for murder was weak. The accidental death argument could only succeed if the jury concluded that the evidence for murder was equivocal at best, IMO.

In the end, the CA jury was able to set aside their assessment of the defendant's (virtually nonexistent) character and look at the prosecution's evidence, which they found to be insufficient to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

This forum is not the place to argue the merits of the CA case and I do not want to start a general debate on the outcome or the process. But without this limited reminder of the facts in that case, I cannot respond to your citation of it to support your conclusion that defense attorneys can submit to the jury arguments based on speculation alone.
 
  • #922
"A psychiatrist has penned a letter to a woman who has been writing to Bryan Kohberger, the suspect in the slayings of four University of Idaho students."

o_O

There’s a whole fan club on Reddit with 100 members. And Banfield is reporting he was about to be fired—something I had wondered about being a trigger, but I’m gonna wait for a University news release. He reportedly was officially fired Dec. 20 (after the murders) while he was home in PA. Next few days should be interesting.
 
  • #923
I'm not a psychological expert, but I wonder if this is the sort of stressor that might push someone with certain tendencies over the edge...

MOO
“Have at him.”…terribly unprofessional and provocative. IMO, he was losing his his only self-validation proof (I’m sure there’s a professional description re: self-worth etc.

There’s also an article with a headline stating PA has reopened unsolved murder cases, but the article actually says that no similar MOs have yet been identified.
 
  • #924
According to Banfield, this is the "Alleged job termination timeline"

September 23 Altercation with WSU professor
October 3 Meeting to discuss "professional behavior"
October 21 Email to BK regarding "failure to meet expectations"
November 2 Meeting to discuss "improvement plan"
December 7 Meeting to discuss progress on "improvement plan"
December 9 Second altercation with professor
December 19 TA position officially terminated
Do we know when the professor had the students confront BK in class?
 
  • #925
Having worked in universities as a professor and as a grad student, it's hard for me to believe anyone would have advised a student intervention/"have at him" situation if there was a problem with a TA. It was so unprofessional. I expect it was all on the professor (and I believe he has boasted that it gave the students a feel for a courtroom-- which makes no sense to me. Courtrooms aren't "throw him to the lions" situations.)

At any rate I'd question the judgment of whoever came up with that stunt. I think it's possible the professor intended to push BK over the edge-- not so he'd murder but over the edge to quit. There are faculty who believe anything is fair if it's used to "weed out" students.

But we do not know that the advice was given. Surely you've heard people say, "Well, bring it up in class and air it out?" I sure have. Usually, it goes well. Usually, the TA's stick up for each other.

I am certain the prof did not say "have at him" (i've only ever heard that here on WS). It turned into an unpleasant event for BK (and probably for everyone) due to his inherent inability to cooperate and take criticism. I do think trying such a thing in a large class is beyond silly, but people still do it. I'm listening to a young prof (third year) attempt to get his students arrive on time, and he is going to try the "let the whole class mention it" process. When I was at uni, if a student was disrupting our learning by coming in late, one of two things happened. 1) The prof got up and left abruptly, leaving us all to wonder what the heck? I'll never forget that now deceased professor. or 2) We complained to the prof and the prof said "deal with it yourself - you talk to the student." So we did. And it worked. And it was rare.

This situation was a bit different, but I do remember the same thing (unfair grading) in a large philosophy class where all grading was done by the TA. Some students approached the prof who said, "Deal with it." We had no options for changing sections. So it just stayed that way. Prof never once referred to any issues regarding grading, whatsoever. He only talked about philosophy. I thought that was normal until I began teaching.

I do not teach at an elite university, either - but WSU is not exactly elite either (there are programs at my school ranked higher than theirs - but we're definitely middle of the pack type of schools). Lots of turnover n professors, lots of adjuncts and young professors. We don't even know if this professor was tenure track or adjunct.

But I do not believe they said "Have at him," they said, "There's this issue." And I bet you anything they talked to BK before that and said they wanted to have him listen to the students. "You need to listen to the students, but they are afraid of you, so we'll do it this way." Yep, I can see a prof doing that (and I can see a junior HR person thinking that was cool, as well).

JMO, And with that, I'm off to teach that class in human evolution - but I want to thank you all for being on top of this case - who knew it would take this twist right now? It's a nice piece of the puzzle, no matter what. And maybe one day, we'll hear more about that classroom situation.
 
  • #926
“Have at him.”…terribly unprofessional and provocative. IMO, he was losing his his only self-validation proof (I’m sure there’s a professional description re: self-worth etc.

There’s also an article with a headline stating PA has reopened unsolved murder cases, but the article actually says that no similar MOs have yet been identified.

Does anyone have a link for the prof actually saying that?

I'd be much obliged.

Thanks - I can't find any such words in any MSM. It surely could have been said and I just missed it.
 
  • #927
  • #928
  • #929
Just to be clear, I think you are probably right about this. My best guess would align closely with yours. But then I was certain O.J. Simpson and Casey Anthony would be convicted!

I was merely raising a hypothetical, as we do here from time to time.

Thanks. We can have different perspectives but interesting discussions about it. I try not to stubbornly hold on to just my point of view when presented with more evidence and different ways to see something.

On WS the Cases we follow evolve as more information and evidence comes out.

Plus, really hits emotionally, most on here hurt for victims and their loved ones - we want justice for the families.
 
Last edited:
  • #930
  • #931
Here's a link
That's interesting...I hadn't seen this exact interview before (the same student spoke on Dateline I think). I didn't know or hadn't heard that BK grew out his facial hair around the time of the murders. He was clean shaven during that traffic stop in Indiana.
 
  • #932
we don’t know w complete certainty a Kabar was used. If the knife proves to be different this could be reasonable doubt. I do think the state will have much more evidence than what's been provided in the PCA.
He was cleaning that car for a reason, and I’m sure those lab results are still outstanding. Find the DNA of any of the 4 victims, and it’s ballgame.
 
  • #933
Sounds like BK's cross country move to Washington wasn't panning out so well.
To fur

Sorry. I responded to the wrong message. It was intended to be a response to this message.



View attachment 401218

This is what LE likely meant. IMO.
Even placing him near Moscow is not enough. He could say He parks behind 1122 cuz it's a vacant lot and jogs around the area. Theres nothing yet to place him inside except the sheath which is trace dna only. All the pieces together look strong but attack them 1 by 1 and they can create a plausible defense. Just need 1 person to say maybe. The pca isn't enough and it's not supposed to be. Ive said before I think Thompson is excellent and he wouldn’t bring a weak case to trial. He was the first prosecutor in Idaho to convict without a body so I believe he'll get a conviction here. moo
 
  • #934
WSU info page on graduate assistantships, including how assistantship is evaluated.

Note the statement regarding annual evaluations:

"If the student did not meet one or more of these requirements, the student will not be reappointed to the assistantship . . ."


Certification of Assistantship Duties

If a graduate student is appointed to an assistantship for a semester, including the summer, or for the entire academic year, the department is responsible for ensuring that the student receives a review of their progress in fulfilling the responsibilities of the assistantship.

<snipped>

This certification requirement may be added to the department’s annual review form and/or the assistantship review form. The Graduate School’s annual review template has a sample certification section. If the student did not meet one or more of these requirements, the student will not be reappointed to the assistantship, unless he/she is granted an exception to policy based on extenuating circumstances. Exceptions to policy must be submitted by the department to the Dean of the Graduate School. Download the Student Annual Review Template (Word version) or the GA Evaluations Form (PDF).
 
  • #935
He was cleaning that car for a reason, and I’m sure those lab results are still outstanding. Find the DNA of any of the 4 victims, and it’s ballgame.
What if he says he was parked behind 1122 to jog. He hears screams and sees a suspect flee on foot, He enters the house after to see if everyones ok. He leaves right after cuz hes freaked out. State still needs more which I believe they have. moo
 
  • #936
Quick question here—since he was reportedly fired as a TA, does that also mean he would have been completely severed from the PhD program? Or would he have been able to continue his studies ( with private payment) ?
( in the event he wasn’t arrested for quadruple homicide)

Obviously in his case this is a moot point, but curious how that works.
The disciplinary process for expulsion of a student is different from the process for losing a teaching assistantship. We have no information that BK was expelled from the university prior to his arrest, only that he lost his TA position.
But losing a teaching assistantship would mean that a student would be responsible for paying their own tuition, or they could withdraw from the program if they didn't have the means to do so and had no other source of financial aid, other than government loans, etc.
 
  • #937
The disciplinary process for expulsion of a student is different from the process for losing a teaching assistantship. We have no information that BK was expelled from the university prior to his arrest, only that he lost his TA position.
But losing a teaching assistantship would mean that a student would be responsible for paying their own tuition, or they could withdraw from the program if they didn't have the means to do so and had no other source of financial aid, other than government loans, etc.

TY!
 
  • #938
What if he says he was parked behind 1122 to jog. He hears screams and sees a suspect flee on foot, He enters the house after to see if everyones ok. He leaves right after cuz hes freaked out. State still needs more which I believe they have. moo
He had no known business being there in the first place, no business having ever visited there (which he did multiple times), and no business being there the morning after the murders.

Cell phone evidence has been called “the new DNA,” and it’s damning here.
 
Last edited:
  • #939
What if he says he was parked behind 1122 to jog. He hears screams and sees a suspect flee on foot, He enters the house after to see if everyones ok. He leaves right after cuz hes freaked out. State still needs more which I believe they have. moo

He could certainly do that but if he is going to say anything, he would need to take the stand in his own defence which would leave him open to cross examination. That might bring up a lot of discussion his attorney may want to avoid, like, 'how did your touch DNA end up on a sheath associated with the murder weapon found under one of the victims'.

Edited for bad grammar
 
  • #940
They would also have plant reasonable doubt about alllll the other danming stuff they have that we haven't seen. My money is on him pleading out. IMO
I tend to agree that he will take a plea to save his life.

The wrinkle for me is if he wants to unalive himself but lacks the courage (there’s that word again). Stranger things have happened. Since he made the choice to cross into a DP state, I can’t completely rule out suicide by the state.

MOO
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Staff online

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
127
Guests online
2,720
Total visitors
2,847

Forum statistics

Threads
632,151
Messages
18,622,696
Members
243,034
Latest member
RepresentingTheLBC
Back
Top