ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 13

[Isitfridayyet]

I don’t think that K was all packed up and moved out like some people have been speculating. One of the surviving roommates posted a photo of her and K on the night of the murders. The photo was taken in K’s room and it does not looked packed up at all. There’s still decorations/photos on the wall, jewelry displayed on the dresser. You can even see a made bed in the corner of the photo. The picture was definitely taken the day before because they are wearing the same clothes as they were in the group photos on game day (the ones with M on K’s shoulders)

 

[Fascinated1]

A Websleuths poster familiar with Moscow stated that animal control does not work at night. The only time police would get involved with an after hours animal call would be if the animal is dangerous etc. A loose labradoodle puppy would not be considered a threat.

If that happened where I live on Saturday night, the 311 operator would ask the caller to take care of the dog until business hours.

Well … per the web site-non emergency police can impound pets if they are found after hours and they will be put through the intake process in the morning. So dog could have been picked up and owner notified I believe.

 

[TooMuchGun]

We don't know for sure who was assigned which room or who was sleeping in which room.

One thing is for certain - LE knows, and so far it hasn't led them to naming any suspect. So it seems unlikely that our theorizing on it will lead to a suspect either. Just sayin'...

Carry on!

there's a yt video where the guy shows a diagram and actual pics of all the rooms. Think whose room is whose is well known

 

[whitelilac]

Though I'm sure this would be problematic in the US, I'm certain I've seen the use of a blanket DNA request of males that resided in a certain geographical area to solve a couple of cold cases in the UK.

One case (the murder of 13 year old Yara Gambirasio in Italy in 2010 ) of DNA requests (22,000 samples from a particular area) and due to the doggedness of prosecutor Letizia Ruggeri, finally led to the killer's 2014 identity and conviction.
It was a very complicated case due to the fact that the killer was an illegitimate son no one knew about.

Murder of Yara Gambirasio - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

An excellent Italian film was made of this case. It's on Netflix.

Is Netflix's Yara Based on a True Story?

‘Yara’ is an Italian crime drama on Netflix that follows the assault and murder of a young girl and the subsequent investigation surrounding it. The film depicts the harrowing story in detail, taking audiences through the various steps of the long and complicated search for the missing victim...

thecinemaholic.com

This could likely never be possible in the US.

 

[Elley Mae]

Madison Mogen had a pair of pink cowgirl boots that are still displayed in the window of her rental home near the University of Idaho campus.

Idaho murders: Was Kaylee Goncalves the killer's main target? Police respond

Police reveal new details about why they believe the slayings of four University of Idaho students in their sleep in mid-November was a "targeted" attack.

www.foxnews.com

Image of window at link.

 

[indicolite22]

I do believe that LE has said that all 4 were asleep when they were attacked.

I believe the coroner also clarified that not all four were found in their beds.

 

[Russian Blue]

Was Kaylee planning on moving to Austin, Texas?

Yes this has been often reported.

 

[DizzyB]

just a thought...if LE found the dog on the night of the incident, that could mean that the dog may have been left out much earlier than was first believed and before murders and was wandering around thus generating a report of a stray dog. Said stray dog may have been picked up and taken to animal control to be processed. Chip or no chip. If the dog was chipped the owner(s)..KG and/or bf J... did they both own the dog or both listed as contacts?? It would take some time for the news and location of the murders to be connected to a stray dog incident. The responsible person, contacted the next day could be Ks bf J but info of that just kept out of the news, not necessary to know who. When KG and MM made the many calls to J neither would know where the dog was yet.

My point is that the killer may have been in house earlier than first thought. If either of the 2 survivors were the target, arriving around 1am, the killer would have done the deed and left. If E or X were the target, they arriving home next, the killer would have done the deed and left, leaving 4 victims. MM and KG got home around 2am and started calling J and killer did not move on them until after the phone calls and they had settled in for the night. All speculation and JMO.

If animal control picked up the dog and left a message (phone # on tag on the collar?), K would not have been able to drive to the shelter to pick up due to her BAC. She might have been repeatedly calling the co-owner about the dog, and her friend may have been as well. Not sure of the shelter’s hours, but if there was a message about Murphy, that could have happened. It really doesn’t seem like the dog was in the room.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

....and if one can not or will not release the time of when one found a dog, I seriously consider everything else one has said.

Why though? I can see all kinds of reasons they haven't released that that have nothing to do with skillful investigation. Just two that come immediately to mind: the dog was located right away and they're not bogged down in inconsequential details and have been too busy to realize this is an issue with a minority of people following the case. Another is that the dog's location wasn't known right away for whatever reason and they don't yet know if that plays a part in the investigation so they want to keep it close to the vest.

Until we know more, I don't think we can say that small detail correlates with their investigative competence.

All MOO.

 

[HawkFan]

In my opinion, the perp was hiding up on the hill behind the house in that wooded area waiting for everyone to go to sleep after they all had returned home from their nights out. He waited until the lights were all turned off and figured that everyone was asleep (most likely around 3:30 am or so). The whole time he is waiting in the wooded area he is seething and his adrenaline is building up in anticipation of killing K or M or maybe both.

He makes his move and enters through the sliding patio door that goes to the kitchen that has been left unlocked or wasn’t locked securely enough. He knows that both K and M have bedrooms on the 3rd floor and quietly walks through the kitchen over to the stairway and goes up to the 3rd floor. He selects one of the bedrooms and enters quietly and stabs K or M to death. No screams are heard because they were sound asleep.

He then proceeds to the next bedroom on the 3rd floor and enters the room and stabs the other girl to death who was also sound asleep. If he was targeting just one of the girls he may have selected the wrong room initially so he went to the other room to kill his intended target. LE knows the intended target due to severe and excessive stab wounds to her body.

The killer heads back downstairs to leave the house but he encounters E who may have heard something and woke up to check on things. He gets into a fight with E and starts stabbing him until he kills him probably in the living room area (E more than likely has defensive wounds). X wakes up when she hears the commotion and probably yells out to E. The perp hears her and goes into her bedroom and kills her (she also has defensive wounds).

The killer exits the house through the sliding patio door and makes his way through wooded area and walks back to his house or apartment in the dark. This whole incident could have happened fairly quickly maybe 10-15 minutes max. The next puzzle to solve is who did this and what his motive was. In my opinion, these crimes were committed by 1 person who was in a rage and determined to kill one of both of the girls that may have humiliated him. I’ll state who I think may have done this in another post.

 

[AngTxGal]

Off the top of my head, the MacDonald murders in NC in 1970, but I’m sure there have been a few since then.

Glenn County GA Mass Murders 2009- 7 dead and 2 critically injured
Guy Heinze, Jr is serving life sentence, family murder- not stranger, drugs involved?
he was arrested 15 days after the murders

Wikipedia

JMO

 

[AngTxGal]

Follow up thought. Maybe after friends came over, they walked around to balcony and looked in Maddie and Kaylees room and saw blood? Do we even know they were in one room?

From the pictures I’ve seen you cannot easily get to the balcony except from the sliding door inside the 3rd floor rooms.

JMO

 

[accordn2me]

Moo...why is the dog important? It is not a guard breed..it would of hid or wandered away if door left open. What is important..is stabby person..left handed or right handed. Stabbing is usually not thought out. But this person succeeded in killing 4 people efficiently..that needs alot of muscle,energy and knowledge. I am very knife friendly, hunting, farming etc. But i would need to google to deal with humans..or be military..but military does not teach that to all. Moo

The dog is a curiosity for me because of the information given out about the phone calls:
1. ~10 calls made to the co-owner of the dog before the murders;
2. the calls to friends because there was an "unresponsive" person; and
3. the LACK of information given out about the 911 call.

Just tryin' to make sense of those calls....the dog can help explain some of it.

 

[tokyorose]

Why though? I can see all kinds of reasons they haven't released that that have nothing to do with skillful investigation. Just two that come immediately to mind: the dog was located right away and they're not bogged down in inconsequential details and have been too busy to realize this is an issue with a minority of people following the case. Another is that the dog's location wasn't known right away for whatever reason and they don't yet know if that plays a part in the investigation so they want to keep it close to the vest.

Until we know more, I don't think we can say that small detail correlates with their investigative competence.

All MOO.

Agree 100 percent. Many times in investigation LE keeps things from the public, so as not to compromise the investigation. For example, in the Delphi case we have an arrest, a sealed PCA and 6 years later LE has not released cause of death for either victim or possible murder weapon. LE is under no obligation to satisfy our curiosity. I think the location of the dog is something perhaps only the killer might know. MOO but I highly doubt LE is going to be forthcoming with this information.

 

[ktm44]

....and if one can not or will not release the time of when one found a dog, I seriously consider everything else one has said.

Which is fair but we don't even know at the dog was actually at large. It could simply be as benign as LE placing the dog in a safe situation until such time as a direct family member or 'co-parent' was available to claim it.

I'm not sure how LE works in the US but in Canada, very little, if anything about an ongoing investigation is released to the public because they have no desire to compromise an ongoing investigation and aren't in the business encouraging people to insert themselves in an active investigation.

 

[CeeMDubs]

I don’t think that K was all packed up and moved out like some people have been speculating. One of the surviving roommates posted a photo of her and K on the night of the murders. The photo was taken in K’s room and it does not looked packed up at all. There’s still decorations/photos on the wall, jewelry displayed on the dresser. You can even see a made bed in the corner of the photo. The picture was definitely taken the day before because they are wearing the same clothes as they were in the group photos on game day (the ones with M on K’s shoulders)

This^

I saw the photo and I agree - K’s furniture was still at the residence. For me, this puts to bed the theory that they were found together. Also, I’m almost positive I read somewhere that the 3rd floor victims were found in separate bedrooms. If K wasn’t moved out, this makes even more sense (they wouldn’t have to sleep in the same room due to furniture having been moved.)

I think that they were found separately. JMO

 

[TooMuchGun]

In my opinion, the perp was hiding up on the hill behind the house in that wooded area waiting for everyone to go to sleep after they all had returned home from their nights out. He waited until the lights were all turned off and figured that everyone was asleep (most likely around 3:30 am or so). The whole time he is waiting in the wooded area he is seething and his adrenaline is building up in anticipation of killing K or M or maybe both.

He makes his move and enters through the sliding patio door that goes to the kitchen that has been left unlocked or wasn’t locked securely enough. He knows that both K and M have bedrooms on the 3rd floor and quietly walks through the kitchen over to the stairway and goes up to the 3rd floor. He selects one of the bedrooms and enters quietly and stabs K or M to death. No screams are heard because they were sound asleep.

He then proceeds to the next bedroom on the 3rd floor and enters the room and stabs the other girl to death who was also sound asleep. If he was targeting just one of the girls he may have selected the wrong room initially so he went to the other room to kill his intended target. LE knows the intended target due to severe and excessive stab wounds to her body.

The killer heads back downstairs to leave the house but he encounters E who may have heard something and woke up to check on things. He gets into a fight with E and starts stabbing him until he kills him probably in the living room area (E more than likely has defensive wounds). X wakes up when she hears the commotion and probably yells out to E. The perp hears her and goes into her bedroom and kills her (she also has defensive wounds).

The killer exits the house through the sliding patio door and makes his way through wooded area and walks back to his house or apartment in the dark. This whole incident could have happened fairly quickly maybe 10-15 minutes max. The next puzzle to solve is who did this and what his motive was. In my opinion, these crimes were committed by 1 person who was in a rage and determined to kill one of both of the girls that may have humiliated him. I’ll state who I think may have done this in another

wouldn't the survivors wake up? One of the 1st fl bedrooms is directly below E and X.

 

[Ozoner]

I agree with that which is why I think he started at the 3rd floor.
I think it's more likely to leave a 3rd floor bedroom window or door unlocked than a main floor exit.
I agree if it's targeted why go upstairs which makes me think if he enters on floor 2 he's there to kill everyone. Maybe he watched the 4 come home at 145am. Where the killer entered makes a difference to what kind of person did it. Too much info withheld to know for sure

If he entered on the third floor, that would change my thinking about who the target was, but I doubt that he entered on the third floor. That would be pretty unusual. It isn't impossible, but I think that finding a way in on the 2nd floor would have been easier than climbing up to that balcony.

 

[Hexe]

This is so wrong by ethical standards. “Hey, all males, consent to a controversial polygraph and give us your DNA. We have no probable cause and no warrant. It’s completely voluntary, but if you don’t consent lots of people may think that you are suspicious.” Just no!

Anyone ever hear of police widely doing this?

In 1987 the LE investigating the murders of two young girls, Lynda Mann and Dawn Asworth, near Leicester, UK, asked local men to volunteer the DNA samples. Thewy gathered 5500 samples. The murderer, Colin Pitchfork, got eventually caught because when the samples were gathered he asked his pal to give a sample posing as him. The pal let his lips loose in a pub, someone from the pub passed the info to the LE and so they zeroed on Pitchfork.

Killer breakthrough – the day DNA evidence first nailed a murderer

Another case where something like this was done, not once, but twice, happened in Italy. In November 2010 thirteen years old girl, Yara Gambirasio, went missing in a small town north of Milan. Her remains were found three months later, the investigators managed to get some DNA from her underwear. They tested Yara's family, friends, schoolmates, people from the gym Yara attended, no match. Near the location where body was found there was a nightclub, so the investigators asked the people frequenting it to give voluntarily a sample of DNA. And they had partial luck, they got a profile of someone that was a cousin of the murderer. Through that cousin they found the murderer's father. But here was a little problem: that man had two known sons and their DNA was not a match to murderer's. So, the investigator asked women old enough to be the murderer's mother to volunteer a DNA sample. And eventually they found the right women and through her the murderer, who was a fruit of an extramarital fling.

The murder that obsessed Italy | Tobias Jones

 

[Missyrocks5]

This is a great question! I wonder if they simply ask first, or ask for a person to submit a polygraph, or ask for a DNA sample?
It will be very interesting this next week if they begin to ask for males in all the apartments around there if they will volunteer a DNA sample!
Of course guys can say No, but wow would that add some pressure if they begin to ask those questions.

JMO

Absolutely. Beyond doing it voluntarily, I do not know what it takes to establish probable cause in order for them to serve a warrant to search an apartment and a car. I expect that is why they have the visits from the prosecutor. He keeps periodically checking I presume to see what they have and whether it’s enough that he can get a judge to sign off on it. The last thing they want to do is give a defense attorney a reason to get it tossed out. And since they describe a scene as messy or sloppy, I am fine with them taking their time.