ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 16

[Sandy007]

But that's the coroner. She's elected and I believe is a nurse. What it sounded like you were saying is that you knew as a face that crime scene investigators did not make note of the temperature of the bodies at the scene...that's what has me confused. I feel like we're talking about 2 different things, lol.

Coroners are qualified doctors, qualified patologoanatoms. They MUST take the temperature of the body in situ, plus they MUST take the room temperature and check if the there are fixtures to switch on/off the heating system such as clocks and thermostats as the working heating may delay the decreasing of the body temperature of the deceased after they die.

 

[crax.t]

I think that needs to be clarified publicly. I agree it is very strange.

yeah it felt really weird for some random woman to claim to be with a newspaper. like what is even the point in that? what is your motive for doing that? i agree that it needs to be clarified

 

[SLouTh]

If he's local, this would not be cold enough to detract him.

Pullman, WA Weather History | Weather Underground

12:33 AM	28 °F	26 °F	92 %	N	3 mph	0 mph	27.55 in	0.0 in	Cloudy
12:48 AM	28 °F	27 °F	93 %	CALM	0 mph	0 mph	27.56 in	0.0 in	Cloudy
12:53 AM	28 °F	26 °F	92 %	CALM	0 mph	0 mph	27.56 in	0.0 in	Cloudy
1:53 AM	29 °F	26 °F	89 %	CALM	0 mph	0 mph	27.57 in	0.0 in	Cloudy
2:53 AM	28 °F	25 °F	88 %	WSW	6 mph	0 mph	27.57 in	0.0 in	Cloudy
3:17 AM	28 °F	25 °F	88 %	S	3 mph	0 mph	27.57 in	0.0 in	Cloudy
3:53 AM	28 °F	25 °F	88 %	SW	5 mph	0 mph	27.57 in	0.0 in	Cloudy
4:53 AM	28 °F	25 °F	88 %	CALM	0 mph	0 mph	27.57 in	0.0 in	Cloudy
5:53 AM	29 °F	25 °F	85 %	CALM	0 mph	0 mph	27.57 in	0.0 in	Cloudy
6:53 AM	29 °F	25 °F	85 %	CALM	0 mph	0 mph	27.59 in	0.0 in	Cloudy
7:25 AM	29 °F	25 °F	85 %	ESE	3 mph	0 mph	27.59 in	0.0 in	Cloudy

That is below freezing .. Minus 3.8 C ….(at 3:53am)
It is all relative to where the perp comes from….. even with gloves on at that temperature my fingers would be too frozen to ne nimble with a knife ..
Might be nothing if you are used to it, but a very cold deal if you come from somewhere warmer….
IMO

 

[slanda]

If he's local, this would not be cold enough to detract him.

Pullman, WA Weather History | Weather Underground

12:33 AM	28 °F	26 °F	92 %	N	3 mph	0 mph	27.55 in	0.0 in	Cloudy
12:48 AM	28 °F	27 °F	93 %	CALM	0 mph	0 mph	27.56 in	0.0 in	Cloudy
12:53 AM	28 °F	26 °F	92 %	CALM	0 mph	0 mph	27.56 in	0.0 in	Cloudy
1:53 AM	29 °F	26 °F	89 %	CALM	0 mph	0 mph	27.57 in	0.0 in	Cloudy
2:53 AM	28 °F	25 °F	88 %	WSW	6 mph	0 mph	27.57 in	0.0 in	Cloudy
3:17 AM	28 °F	25 °F	88 %	S	3 mph	0 mph	27.57 in	0.0 in	Cloudy
3:53 AM	28 °F	25 °F	88 %	SW	5 mph	0 mph	27.57 in	0.0 in	Cloudy
4:53 AM	28 °F	25 °F	88 %	CALM	0 mph	0 mph	27.57 in	0.0 in	Cloudy
5:53 AM	29 °F	25 °F	85 %	CALM	0 mph	0 mph	27.57 in	0.0 in	Cloudy
6:53 AM	29 °F	25 °F	85 %	CALM	0 mph	0 mph	27.59 in	0.0 in	Cloudy
7:25 AM	29 °F	25 °F	85 %	ESE	3 mph	0 mph	27.59 in	0.0 in	Cloudy

I agree. He could just bundle up in very warm gear/boots and even use warmers— I’m sure the adrenaline rush and his fantasies also kept him warm. I went to a -6° football game and survived :/ I heard a profiler discuss the fact that he could have had some alcohol/drugs that would help him to commit the act; ala what Rollings and Bundy used to do.

 

[Curiosa20]

There is touch dna and dna in sweat. he must have been sweating.

And wearing protective gear of some sort head to toe.IMO. PPE is lightweight and could easily be bundled up into a backpack. He could have just stood in a clean area, removed it, put booties on and fled outside in a flash and taken the booties off at a distance to avoid leaving footprints. Quick and easy.
<modsnip - TIR is not an approved source>
MOO
Edit for typos

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

Speaking of leaps:

.
.
Again, we are over two weeks in, no suspects or persons of interest named, known, or hidden, 4 people methodically stabbed to death on different floors, no burglary, no sexual assault, BAU called in immediately, and a clarification by the DA that it was the house that was targeted and not a specific roommate.

That speaks to a serial killer, because the other workable theories I've seen were almost entirely dependent on one or more victims being specifically targeted.

My opinion.

I'm with you. it was what I thought from almost the beginning. BAU isn't called because it's a slam-dunk. There were concerning aspects immediately, in addition to the obvious horror of the murders. The inner circle has been cleared. All those people working on the case who know what they're doing - they've gone through all of the obvious parties, probably a lot of the extended contacts, but even then, extended contacts only pay off if there's a personal connection to the crime. if it is someone who's planned and trained and has mad skills and has been monitoring online, then that's a lot tougher. They've broken it down into each step to see what was possible, probable, impossible. They're analyzing pre- and post-offense behavior. LE knows what this crime entails from both a physical and technical aspect, and I think they knew they were up against a real problem almost immediately, hence the BAU. I don't think LE is perfect, but I do think they have a far better idea about what they're up against, have vetted the alibis and I have respect for that work.

 

[Sandy007]

I wonder how the dog would act if the killer was in his presence again. Would it recognize that scent?
People keep thinking that there is a strong chance that the killer will be at the vigil. What if they brought the dog to the vigil and it acted weirdly around a person?
It's a super long shot that will never happen, but it crossed my mind just now.

There were police dogs at the scene, seen on pictures. The trained police dogs are more likely to react to the scent of perpetrator. The question is: did the perpetrator left an item at the crime scene which police identified as belonging to him and which could be used as a source of scent? Was description of a killer as being 'slopy' a reference that such item was indeed found at the crime scene?

 

[kittythehare]

Coroners are qualified doctors, qualified patologoanatoms. They MUST take the temperature of the body in situ, plus they MUST take the room temperature and check if the there are fixtures to switch on/off the heating system such as clocks and thermostats as the working heating may delay the decreasing of the body temperature of the deceased after they die.

The ME role is what you are describing.

 

[Friday Fan]

That is below freezing .. Minus 3.8 C ….(at 3:53am)
It is all relative to where the perp comes from….. even with gloves on at that temperature my fingers would be too frozen to ne nimble with a knife ..
Might be nothing if you are used to it, but a very cold deal if you come from somewhere warmer….
IMO

Pretty sure this person is local. It's a cold place, but Idaho is a cold place.

I never heard of Moscow ID before this. So, I'm pretty sure the person is from the area.
It's fairly isolated.

Moscow, Idaho - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

Why aren't any reporters asking that question during press conferences???

Gentle reminder: AFAIK, there have only been ~3~ press conferences since the quadruple knife murders on 1/13/22, with the first not happening until three days later.

The answer to your question is: they have not been given the opportunity to ask because there have been shockingly few press conferences.

Perhaps a better question, and one the community would like answered, is why have there been so few press conferences given the gravity & scope of this horrific crime?

All IMHO.

King Road Homicides | Moscow, ID

 

[drmrgrl]

The point is....dogs are unpredictable, right? It seems like a killer, even one with a big knife, is choosing a high risk scene when he picks a home where a dog lives.

Unless he wasn’t worried about the dog to begin with, or the dog was crated or not present when the murders took place

 

[Kemug]

(Quotation edited for focus.) You aren't the first to mention "family annihilator" killers. I don't doubt the crime scene looked similar in the Moscow murders.

But I thought the usual motivation for "family annihilation" was a feeling by the killer that the family in question can't survive or can't prosper without him. I wouldn't think anyone would feel that for a handful of college roommates who were expected to rent temporarily and then go on their way.

Do you know about Henri van Breda in South Africa? Drugged and angry. His parents were about to stop his allowance because it just went on drugs. Only his sister survived, no thanks to him.

 

[Nova]

No. "Unresponsive" is never used for people who have fainted.

But assuming you are right--and I have no expertise that contradicts you--how would a 911 dispatcher know if a person who dropped out of a call had fainted, slipped into a coma, died, been abducted by aliens, etc.?

Are you sure "unresponsive" isn't an umbrella term for "no longer answering" the dispatcher's questions?

 

[Curiosa20]

That is below freezing .. Minus 3.8 C ….(at 3:53am)
It is all relative to where the perp comes from….. even with gloves on at that temperature my fingers would be too frozen to ne nimble with a knife ..
Might be nothing if you are used to it, but a very cold deal if you come from somewhere warmer….
IMO

That’s right. As I recall, the low was 26 in Moscow. And remember Kaylee and Maddie walked just about 5 blocks from the bar to the Food Truck. It was not icy or snowy that night, at least not downtown. I don’t know why it would be different 1 1/2 miles away.
The killer could easily have great light weight winter clothing. We have fantastic tough ski/snow boarding gloves rated down to 0 but also not bulky.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

And wearing protective gear of some sort head to toe.IMO. PPE is lightweight and could easily be bundled up into a backpack. He could have just stood in a clean area, removed it, put booties on and fled outside in a flash and taken the booties off at a distance to avoid leaving footprints. Quick and easy.
That organized murderer obsessed or as the former BAU guys on The Interview Room called it last night, he would have fantasized and planned ahead.
MOO
Edit for typos

do you have a link for that? my first post, I described that in detail, step-by-step. I want to see if mine aligns.

 

[Friday Fan]

But assuming you are right--and I have no expertise that contradicts you--how would a 911 dispatcher know if a person who dropped out of a call had fainted, slipped into a coma, died, been abducted by aliens, etc.?

Are you sure "unresponsive" isn't an umbrella term for "no longer answering" the dispatcher's questions?

Would police talk about a fainting roommate??? Why would they talk about someone not responding to a dispatcher on the phone??
Unresponsive is not a good term. It's a clinical term used in emergency management.
Someone not responding to questions would be something different. It's noted as a "Communication/connection issue" in dispatch lingo.

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North Carolina woman charged with murder in death of 4-year-old girl: 'Senseless violence'

Chelsea Crompton of Vale, North Carolina, was arrested and charged with the murder of 4-year-old Hazel Lidey after EMS personnel discovered bruises on the girl before she died.

news.yahoo.com

When officers responded to a call of an unresponsive girl on Nov. 17, they were at first responding to a reported drug overdose, according to a search warrant reported by local WSOC.
The warrant further explained that when EMS personnel arrived, they found bruises on the girl's body. She was flown to a hospital in nearby Charlotte, North Carolina, where she died four days later.

Early morning shooting at Broad River Road nightclub leaves 1 dead

Richland County Sheriff's Department investigating incident at Club Rose Gold

www.wltx.com

Deputies were called to the scene at Club Rose Gold, 2219 Broad River Rd., around 2 a.m. Wednesday, Nov. 16. Arriving at the scene, they found an unresponsive man in the parking lot. The man appeared to have suffered multiple gunshot wounds. EMS responding to the call determined the man was deceased.

Upstate truck driver struck and killed in Maspeth: NYPD – QNS

A truck driver from the Catskills was struck and killed near his parked tractor trailer on Grand Avenue in Maspeth early Wednesday morning, Nov. 9.

qns.com

Upon arrival, the officers found a 49-year-old man unconscious and unresponsive, lying on the roadway with severe body trauma.EMS responded to the location and pronounced the victim dead at the scene, police said.

https://www.silive.com/news/2022/11...om-staten-island-shoprite-building.htmlPolice said officers observed the 27-year-old male unconscious and unresponsive upon arrival. The male had injuries indicative of falling from an elevated position, police said. EMS responded and pronounced the aided male deceased on scene.

Police: Woman dies of heart attack after man attempts to break into her home

Police ruled the woman's death as a homicide, and the suspect was charged in connection.

www.wwnytv.com

An officer then noticed the woman was breathing heavily and asked her to take a seat to catch her breath. She then became unresponsive and fell out of the chair, prompting police to call EMS.

After CPR was administered, the woman regained a pulse and was taken to a hospital.
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Woman in critical condition after snorkeling accident

By Matthew Nuttle

www.kake.com

The victim, so far only identified as a 57-year-old California woman, was found unresponsive in about five feet of water. Bystanders pulled her from the water and started CPR before first responders arrived.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

That’s right. As I recall, the low was 26 in Moscow. And remember Kaylee and Maddie walked just about 5 blocks from the bar to the Food Truck. It was not icy or snowy that night, at least not downtown. I don’t know why it would be different 1 1/2 miles away.
The killer could easily have great light weight winter clothing. We have fantastic tough ski/snow boarding gloves rated down to 0 but also not bulky.

I was thinking extremely high-tech cut resistant ones, but if this guy is a techie, he might even make his own.

 

[drmrgrl]

I wonder how the dog would act if the killer was in his presence again. Would it recognize that scent?
People keep thinking that there is a strong chance that the killer will be at the vigil. What if they brought the dog to the vigil and it acted weirdly around a person?
It's a super long shot that will never happen, but it crossed my mind just now.

That is a great idea! But that would bring a lot of unwanted attention. I think investigators want to be surreptitious while attending the vigil, if they do attend.

 

[Olivia Reed]

I have not heard it confirmed that they 2 girls actually left their sororities...maybe they did. More likely, they just dont do as much with the sorority as they used to since they are in the last 1 or 2 years of college (cant remember if they are seniors or juniors). This is very common with sororities - to be less involved the closer you get to graduating.

Here is the source of the X and M dropping our of their sororities - Idaho coed murders: Sorority sister recalls victim's hours before tragedy, 'a normal night in Moscow'

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

"Unresponsive" would apply one of the murdered students.

The term "unresponsive" is rarely used for someone who has fainted etc. Although the police log refers to the person "unconscious", it does call it a homicide. There is no indication on the police log that they responsed to a roommate who had fainted.

MPD Press Log 11/13/2022

www.ci.moscow.id.us

22-M09903 Homicide

Incident Address: 1100 blk KING RD

MOSCOW ID 83843

Disposition: ACT

Time Reported: 11:56

Cad Comments:

Complaint of unconscious person. Officers and EMS responded. Coroner and detectives notified. Report taken.

To which I’ll add MFD Chief Nickerson stated neither FD nor EMS (part of our volunteer FD) stated they did not enter the scene nor transport anyone from the scene.

IMHO, these two facts solidly eliminate one of the surviving housemates as the “unconscious person” call. In addition to all previous LE statements as well. YMMV, of course

Police identify 4 University of Idaho students found dead | Local News | idahopress.com