ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 17

[Plantgirl21]

My opinion of what happened with the surviving roommates and the 911 call that morning:

Roommate(s) (RM) are up Sunday morning and it is strange that X is not awake and up for the day--maybe even had an event or brunch that she was expected up for. So RM knocks on X's door with no response. RM then tries to open X's bedroom door and discovers it locked. So RM then calls X's cell phone and X does not answer--but roommate can hear the phone ringing in X's bedroom (so she knows she is in there not responding). So RM then tries calling E's cell phone to see if he knows what is up with X---and the RM can then hear E's phone ringing in the locked bedroom as well. So then RM starts to get concerned and calls E's brother and frat guys that are essentially right across the street a the Frat House to see if they know anything or can come help. E's brother and frat brothers come to the house and knock on the door and call for E and X through the door with no response. So they decide to call 911 and report an unresponsive person in the bedroom. While on the phone with 911, the dispatcher directs them to try to open the locked door (this is when the phone gets passed around to different people as we know happened on the call). During the commotion on the call with 911, they eventually find a wire hanger to pop open the bedroom door and find the horror scene of their friends/sibling/brother stabbed to death in a grizzly scene. The RM and friends who are there then run out of the house and wait for police to arrive.

This scenario would account for all of the various strange facts we know about the morning and the call that seem off to all of us but seem to make sense to me.

Thoughts?

Why do you think RM didn't go upstairs to ask M & K for help, in addition to calling the frat bros?

 

[kbckcern22]

Double post

 

[flowershop]

In this FOX interview with a forensics expert, the expert explained that the coroner did not see the bodies until much later than the norm. (See link to video below. Another member posted it yesterday) He further explains that the formulas used to determine time of death based on rigor mortis, algor mortis, etc cannot be used effectively.

Any ideas on how LE was able to estimate the time of death? If I am not mistaken LE is currently saying between 3 and 4 am.

 

[seemstome]

If there was a big noisy party going on in the field near the home at the same time as the murders (revealed by the police blotter info) that may explain why the surviving roommates did not hear anything. As well as why the murdered roommates did not hear anyone entering their home.
Also, maybe the call about the noisy event was placed by the killer to distract the police.
Also, maybe some or all of the roommates briefly attended the field party and were
Roofied? JMO

 

[Plantgirl21]

My opinion of what happened with the surviving roommates and the 911 call that morning:

Roommate(s) (RM) are up Sunday morning and it is strange that X is not awake and up for the day--maybe even had an event or brunch that she was expected up for. So RM knocks on X's door with no response. RM then tries to open X's bedroom door and discovers it locked. So RM then calls X's cell phone and X does not answer--but roommate can hear the phone ringing in X's bedroom (so she knows she is in there not responding). So RM then tries calling E's cell phone to see if he knows what is up with X---and the RM can then hear E's phone ringing in the locked bedroom as well. So then RM starts to get concerned and calls E's brother and frat guys that are essentially right across the street a the Frat House to see if they know anything or can come help. E's brother and frat brothers come to the house and knock on the door and call for E and X through the door with no response. So they decide to call 911 and report an unresponsive person in the bedroom. While on the phone with 911, the dispatcher directs them to try to open the locked door (this is when the phone gets passed around to different people as we know happened on the call). During the commotion on the call with 911, they eventually find a wire hanger to pop open the bedroom door and find the horror scene of their friends/sibling/brother stabbed to death in a grizzly scene. The RM and friends who are there then run out of the house and wait for police to arrive.

This scenario would account for all of the various strange facts we know about the morning and the call that seem off to all of us but seem to make sense to me.

Thoughts?

Why do you think RM didn't go upstairs to ask M & K for help, in addition to calling the frat bros?

 

[drmrgrl]

I wonder if someone thought the people in the house called the police?

Possible…and they came back later for a little surprise visit. However, I don’t think that is likely. An alcohol infraction is pretty mild

 

[Trouble1321075]

And what if they say dog owners should beware and it turns out in the end, it actually wasn't dog owners and a couple without a dog was killed? Or what if the killer's defense is that the cops were closed off to any other motive or target for the attack? That's what I mean. When they know so little, it's better to protect the investigation.

I'm not sure what your point is here. If police think dog owners are in danger they should alert the public to that information. What people do with that information is up to them. There's a difference between sharing what you have and withholding something. Imo

 

[Charlot123]

Maybe they blame her a little. If E hadn't been with her, etc. it's not reasonable, but with that amount of grief, people react in different ways to find a way to cope in the short-term.

I wonder if perhaps they didn’t know her too well? And of course, with the Internet being full of different theories, it is hard to sort things out.

 

[drmrgrl]

I'm not sure what your point is here. If police think dog owners are in danger they should alert the public to that information. What people do with that information is up to them. There's a difference between sharing what you have and withholding something. Imo

Withholding is deliberate.

 

[EncyclopediaBrownJr]

It almost seems more awkward having someone hold them down to me, but I'm no killer. JMO

From what I understand, if there are killings involving stabbings such as this where there's no burglary or rape, and there's more than 1 person that went into a house, it's unlikely only 1 person will have done all the stabbings.

 

[kittythehare]

Does anyone know if the US and Canada share DNA databases? I tried searching for that answer today and couldn't come up with anything.

Interpol?

 

[The Observer]

Even if this is completely unrelated to the murders, this means the cops were basically right outside the house where the murders were happening at the time they were happening!! What are the chances?!?

To be fair it's a small college town on a Saturday night. The cops wouldn't have been noticeable, as in a deterent, they'd not have responded with lights and sirens. It was just drunk college kids. If anything the noise and people about work in the killer's favour. Someone possibly walking in the dark covered up around off campus student accommodation isn't going to be seen as anything out of the ordinary.

 

[Bliss_Perth]

If the police have video surveillance footage of X and E leaving the Sigma party or a photo of them inside the party is it strange for them to not release this footage or a photo to rejog someones memory if they were with them that night?

A lot of murder cases or missing persons cases this footage almost always gets released if they have it.

Maybe they don't have any...or maybe they want to focus elsewhere. I'm leaning towards they want to focus elsewhere. Also they could easy blur out other individuals if they do have any.

Just thoughts after watching a tiktok of someone from the grub bus. Memories can be hazy until you see a video or photo from the night.

 

[EncyclopediaBrownJr]

In this FOX interview with a forensics expert, the expert explained that the coroner did not see the bodies until much later than the norm. (See link to video below. Another member posted it yesterday) He further explains that the formulas used to determine time of death based on rigor mortis, algor mortis, etc cannot be used effectively.

Any ideas on how LE was able to estimate the time of death? If I am not mistaken LE is currently saying between 3 and 4 am.

Possibly the digestion of the food that they ate?


Kaylee made a last call from her phone at 2:52am. We know they were alive at that time. They do the autopsy and find some of the food she bought at the food truck and calculate how far along that food made it through the digestive tract. Where is the beginning of that trail of food within her digestive tract? How long does it take to get to that point in the tract? Just my guess.

 

[Trouble1321075]

I used to read the report at my kid’s school-that college had a lot more information than what is listed on UI’s site. Really bad behavior. But common, nothing noteworthy on the face of it.


I doubt they will confirm but they may address it with some vague word salad. I think the original target statement may indeed be true-sometimes the first things you hear are closest to correct. I really hope they are farther along than they are making it sound. And pick a person to speak. One voice.

For the record I am not opposed to the police keeping tight lipped at this stage of their investigation. I think it's very understandable so far with one caveat. If they feel people are in danger they need to alert people to that danger.

There is going to come a point when I'm going to expect the police to release some detailed information about the crime but we are not there yet. They can not be permitted to play the trust us card forever. People have a right to know the nature of the crimes in our communities.

 

[Jakehansen1988]

Incase any one else was touched by the beautiful hymn at the end of the vigil here is a link….
(I had not heard it before …. But thought it was beautiful and so appropriate.. )

This is a fantastic find. I hadn't noted the tune. Thanks for linking it. Absolutely haunting melody and lyrics.

 

[Jeging]

Why do you think RM didn't go upstairs to ask M & K for help, in addition to calling the frat br

My opinion of what happened with the surviving roommates and the 911 call that morning:

Roommate(s) (RM) are up Sunday morning and it is strange that X is not awake and up for the day--maybe even had an event or brunch that she was expected up for. So RM knocks on X's door with no response. RM then tries to open X's bedroom door and discovers it locked. So RM then calls X's cell phone and X does not answer--but roommate can hear the phone ringing in X's bedroom (so she knows she is in there not responding). So RM then tries calling E's cell phone to see if he knows what is up with X---and the RM can then hear E's phone ringing in the locked bedroom as well. So then RM starts to get concerned and calls E's brother and frat guys that are essentially right across the street a the Frat House to see if they know anything or can come help. E's brother and frat brothers come to the house and knock on the door and call for E and X through the door with no response. So they decide to call 911 and report an unresponsive person in the bedroom. While on the phone with 911, the dispatcher directs them to try to open the locked door (this is when the phone gets passed around to different people as we know happened on the call). During the commotion on the call with 911, they eventually find a wire hanger to pop open the bedroom door and find the horror scene of their friends/sibling/brother stabbed to death in a grizzly scene. The RM and friends who are there then run out of the house and wait for police to arrive.

This scenario would account for all of the various strange facts we know about the morning and the call that seem off to all of us but seem to make sense to me.

Thoughts?

Perhaps it has already been discussed here, but I find it difficult to imagine the perpetrator would have shut and locked the bedroom doors before leaving.

 

[Trouble1321075]

Withholding is deliberate.

It also assumes responsibility for that information. They are essentially telling people that the information they have is dangerous if it's in the hands of the public.

 

[Normamsmiley]

Do MPD have body cam? Assuming they looked at that footage for what is seen or unseen?

Good point on the lights. Would make you think the best entrance was from the back, or with an invite.

Yes, MPD has body worn cameras. Their policy states that the camera must be activated for all calls to service. So unless something malfunctioned with the camera, or the responding officer(s) forgot or intentionally did not turn on his/her camera(s), MPD has footage of the incident from 3:01 am.

They also have in-car cameras that automatically activate when lights and/or sirens are activated (likely weren’t needed for an alcohol related call to service).

If it hasn’t happened already, a FOIA request could be made requesting that footage.

 

[OldCop]

I thought the “targeted attack” comment was made to put community fears to rest.

The house still stands. Was the killer trying to destroy the owner of the house, get the house razed?

Numerous posters have tried to explain to you how a house could be considered to be the target of a crime, but you do not want to seem to want to acquiesce that it is possible. So, in answer to your question if the killer was trying to destroy the owner of the house or have it razed, no that’s not what it means.
If it is determined that the house was targeted and not necessarily any of the victims, it means the house was picked to be the scene of the crime he wanted to commit that night, it wasn’t because he knew or targeted a person inside.
It might have been picked because it was easy to get into.
It might have been picked because college kids lived there.
It might have been picked because it was a party house.
It may have been picked for any number of reasons.