ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 18

[everybodhi]

Psychopath or otherwise disturbed individual wants to commit murders. He chooses crime scene based on certain desirable criteria. One of those might be that the occupants be young, attractive females or partiers or Greeks, etc...but that doesn't mean those are targeted as individuals as much as targeted as OCCUPANTS of the targeted house. This person may be planning his crime for a lengthy period, choosing the date, month, weather, time frame to meet his fantasy. For example, it's possible the date 11/13 has a significance to him...or maybe just the 13th. It is noteworthy that he choose address 1122 and committed his crime on 11/22. If this is the case, he may have planned to kill all occupants or maybe just 4 random occupants--whoever was in the house on his chosen date for the crime. He may also have prepared for the crime without choosing a date, instead waiting with his murder kit prepared, having rehearsed various scenarios; then he was ready to act when the opportunity presented itself and conditions were favorable to him.

I’ve been reading an FBI page about serial killers, it references several interviews.
Even before their first kill they obsess about the fantasy of killing, sometimes the fantasies start in childhood.
Then after they kill, they get a feeling of peace and calm. This is the “cooling off” period between murders.
They don’t experience the stress and worry normal people think would result from committing murder. They don’t feel guilt or shame like someone who just temporarily loses it and kills someone from a “psychotic break”.
Eventually that feeling of calmness goes away and they start obsessing about killing again. They may change their MO in order to not be obvious.
They’re in it for the long term.

Edited to add a MOO because I can’t find the link.

 

[Petunia83]

Thanks for clarifying. I thought maybe he lived there because of Xana's Dad's statement: "[W]hen I went up there she, I saw her just a week before that and she changed a lot," Kernodle told the outlet. "She had a life. She got to see what it was like to have a boyfriend you live with. And she really turned around. She was really responsible. Helping him out with his studies and stuff. I was really impressed." University of Idaho victim's father says Xana Kernodle had 'bruises,' put up a fight against killer

Yeah, I can definitely see how pretty much anyone would conclude that E officially lived there, based on a statement like that from her dad. I don’t think her dad was “lying“, it was probably that classic situation where couples are practically “living together” because they are always together, and at one or the other’s place… where they keep half their wardrobe, half of all of their bath products, and a bunch of other stuff throughout the house. Basically living together, just not officially, like on a lease. Just my best guess based on what dad had to say, and that fact that I personally lived that situation a couple of times in my early 20s…

 

[Petunia83]

I agree, G Dad saying "bruised and torn" leads me to first time inexperienced (imho)

Either that, or the girl put up one hell of a fight. Bless her heart.

 

[WildWest]

To me, it looks like a door and door frame rather than cabinets and that the miscellaneous items are sitting on top of a wood table rather than the floor.

I just CANNOT imagine a house built with that kind of path for blood to run through in Rockies. Older house or not I've lived over 50 years in the Rockies in both newer construction and very old homes, the red liquid "does not compute" I'd like to think it was some kind of construction adhesive or cement sealer but where it is SO scary! I fear it is blood but I can't find a path for it to travel like that in my mind, nor the sheer amount.

Edited for clarification

 

[katydid23]

12/1 update mentioning BT is on their FB https://m.facebook.com/100082550200493/

EBM to fix typo

It can be a big problem if the Police begin calling out the DA, and vice versa.

I agree. The follow-up question from the journalist on the behavior pattern thing tripped him up and he made it sound like it was the victim's behavior, but I don't believe at all that that is what he meant. I think he meant 'towards the victims'.

Yes to ^^that. I think he meant that the 'suspect' might change their behaviour pattern but then he realised that would be too revealing for him to say---because then it would be obvious he knew the possible suspect.

 

[BlueTunes]

I agree, G Dad saying "bruised and torn" leads me to first time inexperienced (imho)

JMO Possibly. Or it could be that the killer purposely took his time with her. Savoring the experience with initial non lethal wounds. Leaving her alive hence the defense wounds.

It was said by LE that it was possible 1 or more were targeted. They likely came to this conclusion due to the varying of degree the wounds the victims suffered. Some only a few stab wounds. Others much much worse. Straight butchery I would imagine.

 

[Friday Fan]

Images of 1122 King Rd have been removed from Zillow

1122 King Rd, Moscow, ID 83843 | Zillow

1122 King Rd, Moscow ID, is a Single Family home that contains 3120 sq ft.It contains 6 bedrooms and 3 bathrooms. The Zestimate for this Single Family is $441,000, which has decreased by $12,194 in the last 30 days.The Rent Zestimate for this Single Family is $2,754/mo, which has increased by...

www.zillow.com

 

[seasideForest]

Psychopath or otherwise disturbed individual wants to commit murders. He chooses crime scene based on certain desirable criteria. One of those might be that the occupants be young, attractive females or partiers or Greeks, etc...but that doesn't mean those are targeted as individuals as much as targeted as OCCUPANTS of the targeted house. This person may be planning his crime for a lengthy period, choosing the date, month, weather, time frame to meet his fantasy. For example, it's possible the date 11/13 has a significance to him...or maybe just the 13th. It is noteworthy that he choose address 1122 and committed his crime on 11/22. If this is the case, he may have planned to kill all occupants or maybe just 4 random occupants--whoever was in the house on his chosen date for the crime. He may also have prepared for the crime without choosing a date, instead waiting with his murder kit prepared, having rehearsed various scenarios; then he was ready to act when the opportunity presented itself and conditions were favorable to him.

I'm really impressed with the explanation of your ideas and with your thought processes here! There have been so many questioning posts on this thread and probably previous iirc about what 'targeted' could mean. I admit I had some vague ideas and inklings that it might be more complex than what has been queried but my inklings weren't formed into words yet and probably never would've been.

I hope lots of people read your post and think on it instead of just same-old wonderings!!

 

[everybodhi]

Images of 1122 King Rd have been removed from Zillow

1122 King Rd, Moscow, ID 83843 | Zillow

1122 King Rd, Moscow ID, is a Single Family home that contains 3120 sq ft.It contains 6 bedrooms and 3 bathrooms. The Zestimate for this Single Family is $441,000, which has decreased by $12,194 in the last 30 days.The Rent Zestimate for this Single Family is $2,754/mo, which has increased by...

www.zillow.com

If I owned that property I would do the same.

 

[CityKid]

I wonder if when Coroner described crime scene as messy if she meant both all the after party trash along with the bloody scene. The clutter of stuff in the photos is a little astonishing to me. Stains do like like result of the crime committed to me but without forensic test results, it could be other substances. It does not appear in photos that roommates simply came home between 1am and 1:5am and went to bed. Like if party was over at 1am, I highly doubt that the roommates would let the party trash of dirty dishes and trash go uncleaned like in photos.

I lived in a house with five other women junior and senior year at university, and that mess on the table looks just like I remember. Nobody who's been out drinking then eating their drunk food is going to stay up washing the dishes.

 

[Petunia83]

I’ve been reading an FBI page about serial killers, it references several interviews.
Even before their first kill they obsess about the fantasy of killing, sometimes the fantasies start in childhood.
Then after they kill, they get a feeling of peace and calm. This is the “cooling off” period between murders.
They don’t experience the stress and worry normal people think would result from committing murder. They don’t feel guilt or shame like someone who just temporarily loses it and kills someone from a “psychotic break”.
Eventually that feeling of calmness goes away and they start obsessing about killing again. They may change their MO in order to not be obvious.
They’re in it for the long term.

I’ve read a lot of material that expounds upon the same. It’s like a massive relief for them afterwards… like they finally scratched the worst itch they’ve ever had… they’re not normal, they don’t feel regret or remorse, they feel peace and calm… but just like you said, eventually, that wanes and they begin to “feel the itch” again… This eventually leads to obsession… And once the obsession kicks in, several experts have said it’s no longer a question of “if”, but “when” that person will kill again.

Something I wonder about these types of people… why do some of them cycle so quickly through that “feel itch, obsess, scratch itch (kill), relief, repeat” process, and others do so much more slowly? For example, some serial killers kill again weeks later, and then for others, it can take years to for them to fully cycle through these phases again. Obviously, the psychopathy and lack of remorse and feeling of great relief after killing is the same among them, but what else goes on in their minds that differentiates how quickly each of them “need” to kill again. I would think if there is some sort of methodology to this, it could prove to be helpful in catching these people first… if they know when to be on the lookout. Does that make sense?

 

[cottonweaver]

Thanks.
Covet is used by profilers. Recall Hopkins/Dr Lector using it with Clarice. Movie/book was based on profiler.

do you recall if they used covet in the correct application of the word or in O Toole's use of the word?

 

[CityKid]

I don't think he's saying all of them were together. I think he's just saying MM and KG since they were longtime friends and it isn't surprisingly really that they may have been spending the night in the same room. A lot of female friends that age do, especially after a night on the town and with one of them soon to move away. The cops have said multiple times 2 victims found on 2nd floor and 2 victims found on 3rd floor, so the other two victims weren't found with them.

Besides, the family has talked a lot about the close bond between those two in particular while acknowledging they were less familiar with the other victims. That's another reason I think why he chose to emphasize it--it is comforting to the family because of the bond between those two girls. MOO

I agree. Whatever any of these parents say, whether it's "my child fought till the end" or "my child didn't suffer," I don't take as truth or evidence, but I hope those thoughts bring some comfort to people who have unanswered questions after suffering an unimaginable and unexplained loss.

 

[cottonweaver]

Two interviewees committed suicide after being “interviewed” by a National tv personality So it does happen.

very interesting, thanks
do you mean like PoIs or suspects who'd not yet been arrested?

 

[shane13]

do you recall if they used covet in the correct application of the word or in O Toole's use of the word?

Above a poster said it was O'Toole.

 

[Sunny Texas]

Not quite- there is some overlap, but UI student enrollment is around 12,000 and our non-UI-student population is around 25,000. UI is a large employer in this area (around 2000, IIRC), but they don’t all live in Moscow, Moscow folks work elsewhere, etc. So, I don’t think over half of our population works/studies at UI, but I can’t break it down further without more research not applicable to the quadruple murder.

I was curious whether university students were counted in the population where they attend school or where they have their primary residence (back home). From what I read, they are counted both places, but I'm not sure that number is what goes on the population sign. You probably have some insider information about that, since you live there.

 

[cottonweaver]

Above a poster said it was O'Toole.

yes, I saw that. I just don't understand why O Toole was using the word against the word's own definition. Maybe just mis spoke

 

[shane13]

yes, I saw that. I just don't understand why O Toole was using the word against the word's own definition. Maybe just mis spoke

What do you take as meaning?

 

[cottonweaver]

In the absence of any real developments in this case right now....

Going forward, anybody know when Xmas break starts for the college or when most leave for the holidays?

Am just wondering about
- how this exacerbates the slowness of being able to interview & eliminate people ( face to face interviews better than phone interviews. I previously wondered what proportion of LE's interviews to date have been by phone)
- which weekend most of the big Xmas parties occur? ( for security reasons. unless students are now so scared that they're not going to hold house parties at the end of year)

 

[Sunny Texas]

This is from the set of photos from Daily Mail of the interior of house through the window at dusk (someone posted link a little while ago).
Anyone study these?
In the photo below, is that the door to the bedroom to the back left on floor 2...or a pantry closet? I'm guessing a pantry door but idk.

I ask because it looks like a stain, possibly blood but could be anything. It's all along the top, as well as the side, running down like streaks of wet paint. Considering the house seems well-kept by landlord I'd doubt that they'd have a door/cupboard/pantry/whatever with wood stain marks so visible. Could it be blood?

I've also been trying to figure out where this is. I think maybe a door on the 2nd floor, as you theorize. Looks a lot like blood to me, and it's in a weird place to be have something one of the roommates spilled.