ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 19

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  • #281

Moscow Police Dept​

UPDATE​

(December 1, 2022)

  • Detectives are aware of a sixth person listed on the lease at the residence but do not believe that individual was present during the incident.
  • Idaho State Police Forensic Services crime lab scientists have worked on this case for weeks and have provided testing and analysis results to detectives. As they complete additional tests, those results will also be provided. To protect the investigation’s integrity, specific results will not be released.
  • We remain consistent in our belief that this was a targeted attack, but investigators have not concluded if the target was the residence or if it was the occupants.

    We continue receiving inquiries about comments made by Latah County Prosecutor Bill Thompson, who said the suspect(s) specifically looked at the victim’s residence and that one or more of the occupants were undoubtedly targeted.

    The Moscow Police Department is the only provider of official information regarding this case.

    Prosecutor Bill Tompson released the following email to KTVB and NewsNation regarding his interview. "Thank you for the opportunity to speak with you today. We want to let you know that there was a miscommunication between detectives and my office. To clarify, investigators do not believe the murders were random, but we cannot unequivocally state the residence, or any occupants, were specifically targeted. I apologize for any confusion."
 
  • #282
Ethan’s family did not come up to speak. I’m not sure if they’re there.

Xana’s sister, dad and aunt spoke.
Does make you wonder if there is some animosity - I believe that SG said that X’s family put the memorial together. And when E’s family spoke at the vigil, they didn’t mention X. I really hope there isn’t… but people react differently during tragedy, looking for answers or where to cast blame for their pain.
 
  • #283
Ethan’s family did not come up to speak. I’m not sure if they’re there.

Xana’s sister, dad and aunt spoke.
I believe they were not able to make it? The other three families are all local to where the memorial is being held, but Ethan’s family is not
 
  • #284
ADMIN NOTE:

Reddit is not an approved source and rumors are not allowed at Websleuths.

Next member to bring Reddit or rumors to this thread will get a 1 week TO.
 
  • #285
BBC is now saying that amateur web sleuths are plaguing this investigation. I don't think web sleuths are hurting this investigation in any degree whatsoever. What's plaguing the investigation is that the killer apparently left without much of a trace. And then beyond that fact everything else related to this case is extremely bizarre.

Do you have a link? I'd love to read that. What does BBC even know about the investigators' point of view on this?

I'm curious to see what BBC thinks the mechanism of this plague-by-social media might be.

Also, there are some news articles in which it is said that the perp left lots of evidence and was "sloppy."

 
  • #286
  • #287
Ethan’s family did not come up to speak. I’m not sure if they’re there.

Xana’s sister, dad and aunt spoke.
It was said some of his family were there but not all of it and they felt like they had shared what they wanted to at the other vigil so chose not to this time
 
  • #288
Because even college students have constitutional rights. That’s not hard to understand.
that applies to common dorm hallways? wow I should move to Idaho.
 
  • #289
i find it hard to believe that the university could not invite LE to run a dog through the dorms. that makes zero sense
I'm not on the SCOTUS, but it's the law. I don't make the law, but I do have an eduction and legal background, although I am not vetted by WS so I provide all the required links. I get your point, but it's not correct from a legal standpoint.

You can do case law research if you'd like:


of course, any ruling there will be subject to the SCOTUS which was the final word on the matter and must be applied (stare decisis)


What you'll find is that turning the dogs loose is a warrantless search. You'll find that warrantless searches are the bane of the LE existence. MUCH better to get a warrant than even risk it, but in this case, it does make sense that the dogs could not be let loose to just run through the rooms. Tossing the rights of hundreds is not going to be acceptable. 4th Amendment rights protect all of us.
 
  • #290
It is kinda strange that there is news of a sixth roommate at this point.
Did they not know there was someone else on the lease until now or were the purposely withholding that info?
It seems that CNN investigative reporters preened this info from the property management firm. We know the only action by Moscow PD was to confirm in their 12/1/22 update that they are aware of a 6th person on the lease:

(December 1, 2022)

  • Detectives are aware of a sixth person listed on the lease at the residence but do not believe that individual was present during the incident.
 
  • #291
Wrong. See the case below.


Unless one of the exceptions to a warrantless search were to apply, it would be a warrantless search, and all evidence springing from that would then be illegal as well. And the search you described does not have anything close to a valid legal exception.

It is my understanding that the halls belong to the school and if they give permission, the halls could be "sniffed". If a dog stops at a dorm room, they maybe could not go in without permission or a warrant (not sure on that because the room again belongs to the University and is only rented by the student). The difference between Private front porches belonging to whoever own the home and a hallway belonging to a University that is traversed by anyone who can access the hall.
 
  • #292
I'm surprised this hasn't been brought up yet...Could not be related at all but I came across this post from the Moscow Daily Activity Log from September 19:

Incident Address: 600 blk TAYLOR AVE
MOSCOW ID 83843
Disposition: ACT
Time Reported: 17:32
Cad Comments:
Complaint of stalking. Suspect diagnosed with bi-polar and drug induced psychosis. Officer responded. Report taken.

This is super close to their house.

um wow...yes this is very interesting indeed. This case did initially make me think of Matt de Grood, who stabbed 5 people to death at a party in Canada a few years ago. It was found he had been suffering from schizophrenia at the time.

Big difference is that Matt was apprehended a short time after, and this perp obviously hasn't been. But then again, Matt was at a party with 30 people, the Idaho victims were in a house with only a few other people who were asleep.
 
  • #293
but you can send the dogs down the halls. and if they hit you can search i think.
Respectfully, but searching for what? Dogs need a scent to track someone. The only thing dogs would be able to sniff out in a dorm room would be drugs or something else they have been trained for. MOO
 
  • #294
And Agree with the earlier comment that was posted, DNA under fingernails Would be hard to explain, Also Any hair fibers especially near one of the victims, Also blood mixed in with blood of victims although I’m no expert seems like Mixed blood would be hard to differentiate

Not if there are DNA samples from the relevant victim. If a victim managed to get some of the perp's DNA under his/her finger nails, it would be pretty easy to differentiate between that DNA and the victim's DNA (for which they obviously have a complete map).
Excellent resource! Thanks for sharing. Also a old section regarding immediately follows relating to the discussion upthread about this subject (which I have looked for but lost and will link when I find it. It was either upthread in #19 or towards the end of #18 between one of our verified physicians and another poster who is a verified anthropologist (I think these were the two posters, may be misremembering)… whew that was a mouthful. I have disordered thinking since my strokes, I “think”!)

”Psychosis is a severe mental disorder in which both thought and emotion distort reality. It is sometimes the driving factor behind targeted violence, but personality disturbances seem to play more of a role.71 Nevertheless, caution is advised if one assumes that psychotic individuals will not be able to organize themselves enough to engage in complex and organized behavior. One early study found certain or probable psychosis in two thirds of adult mass murderers, contradicting such an assumption.72 Recentresearchsuggeststhatatleast20%ofadultmassmurdererswereseverelymentallyill.73 Inthe experience of the BAU, and in the observations of researchers, deeply entrenched delusional beliefs can have the effect of focusing and driving pre-attack behaviors and propelling a would-be offender along a pathway toward violently offending.
Although likely representing a minority of cases, psychotic symptoms or disorders can be a primary influencer of target selection. For example, Mr. C drove across the country and engaged in significant violence at the U.S. Capitol. He killed two sworn U.S. Capitol Police (USCP) personnel, acting on his delusional belief that the United States was about to be annihilated by disease and legions of cannibals. After surviving the incident, he later disclosed that he went to the Capitol to gain access to “the ruby satellite,” a device he said was kept in a Senate safe. As a person with paranoid schizophrenia, he was able to plan and carry out cross-country travel, and to engage in successful attack behavior. Mr. C believed the satellite was the key to putting a stop to the cannibalism. It had a means of reversing time, leading him to believe the deaths he caused were “not permanent.” Although he previously communicated his beliefs to others, including multiple governmental agencies, he was unable to secure assistance with his mission to protect himself and the public from harm. In his mind, this forced him to take action on his own” (page 42)

Excellent post.

I can't say too much, but I actually knew a student who traveled cross country to commit a crime against a public official (was caught, it was pretty well publicized). Thing is, I would say he was only a little odd, socially awkward. However, he had a huge hole in his reality system, given how he "planned" his crime.

The kind of psychosis you're describing is really scary. Such people can certainly plan crimes and carry them out. Sometimes the behavior/execution of the crime is so bizarre and inexplicable that it's really hard to find the perp.

For others, having an already unstable mind (sometimes a personality disorder) causes brief breaks with their ordinary reality, especially when drugs or alcohol are added in. I spent yesterday reading up on obsessions and compulsions after reading news articles about the perp being a possible stalker. As it turns out, LE are saying they have no evidence of a stalker, but other articles mention that family members may have said so.

So here, we have opposing views in MSM.




I would love to know local LE's definition of "stalker" and how one can be ruled out so readily. At any rate, if the perp turns out to be someone known to one of the housemates, I won't be surprised. I'll be more surprised if this is a complete stranger.
 
  • #295
  • #296
that applies to common dorm hallways? wow I should move to Idaho.

It applies to all of US. 4th Amendment rights under the US Constitution. Some states provide even strong rights via their state constitutions. The 4A is the floor (the lowest level) but not the ceiling -IOW, states can give more, not take away. For ex, in WA State road blocks are illegal because of the heightened privacy statute. Here's a summary:

 
  • #297
Not in her obituary.

They have talked about being hesitant to hold a service in fears of the killer attending, no chance IMO would they include JD if they had any doubts about him.
Exactly. There's no way they would insert him into her obituary if they had any question in their minds about him. My opinion.
 
  • #298
It is my understanding that the halls belong to the school and if they give permission, the halls could be "sniffed". If a dog stops at a dorm room, they maybe could not go in without permission or a warrant (not sure on that because the room again belongs to the University and is only rented by the student). The difference between Private front porches belonging to whoever own the home and a hallway belonging to a University that is traversed by anyone who can access the hall.
Case law from SCOTUS would say otherwise. I rent an apartment. it cannot be searched because someone else owns it. A quick google will clear it all up for you.
 
  • #299
-
Not much there IMO.
A combination of the obvious and a speculation that 1 or more were into drugs without justification for casting such aspersions. JMO

agree

- we've been told that somebody sent copy of the lease to media. Then later MPD put out another update formalising that. Why is former FBI guy saying ' they ought to have known' when they probably did already know.
+ afaik Coroner Brenda said that they weren't doing toxicology on the victims, so unless that has changed and I missed it, IDK why that former FBI guy is holding out for those results as a gamechanger - as if he's sure the perp drugged them
+ afaik as soon as MPD realised they were dealing with a massacre, they reached out for assistance - Idaho & FBI. ( Another cop from out of state said so, but maybe that is wrong too. If that's wrong, I would like to be corrected.)

some of these interviews = 'money for old rope'
 
  • #300
In 2019, when Augusta lived at the house, the residence had code locks on each bedroom door because each bedroom was rented individually, he said.

You never locked the [side] screen door. Why would you lock the screen door? I mean, you've got locks on all the rooms, so we never locked the screen door," Augusta said.

It was unclear if that was still the case when the victims began their lease on June 5. Some other victims' social media posts showed images of the home that reflected that the locks had since been changed.

He said people would frequently use a "walk path" that led directly from the area of the King Road home to the nearby fraternities.

Augusta said he has since submitted two tips to police, and is considering a third based on his experience around Moscow and living at the home.


 
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