ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 22

[Bhodie]

I do not know a single case where DNA from unconvicted persons are put in any database so that’s a red herring.

I have been working in forensic DNA consulting and study since 1987.

Just my two cents. I saw a case where a forensic genealogist took the DNA from a database from one of Genetic Kits ( 23 and Me, ect. ) and tracked DNA and solved a murder case, it was a woman who was doing the Genetic Kit and turns out one of her relatives committed the crime. His DNA was not in a database but because one of his relatives did this genetic testing the case was solved. So apparently there is a database of unconvicted people.

 

[thx4_medic_Babby]

The biggest takeaway regarding Murphy (the dog) for me is that he was found in a room where the murders didn’t take place. By the logic, I’m assuming the culprit wasn’t hiding out in this room (ie, DNA), waiting on the individuals to return. I’ve certainly suspected this a slight possibility, but it narrows it down when you consider the layout.

It could certainly be a bias, but it also consumes my belief he has been in the house previously, or had knowledge from a remote view.

 

[dubster]

UNIV. OF IDAHO MURDERS COPS FIND VICTIM'S ALLEGED STALKER... No Connection To Killings​

University of Idaho Murders, Cops Rule Out Victim's Alleged Stalker As Suspect

Idaho police believe they've identified the potential stalker of one of the murder victims, but are saying there isn't enough evidence to connect them to the killings.

www.tmz.com

 

[Deleted member 718]

I would suggest parental speculation after today's press release. LE is not going to confirm that nor are they going to release anything regarding the other autopsies.

I'd like to know Brian Entin's source for Kaylee's injuries being more brutal than the other victims. He just posted this which seems to contradict his previous statements. I also doubt LE would tell Mr. Goncalves details about the other victims' injuries.

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[kittythehare]

It seems to me LE is stating ONLY what they can accurately state: that LE found the dog in the house after LE searched and found the victims’ bodies, that the dog was found in a room other than any of the rooms containing victims’ bodies, and that LE found no evidence of the crimes on the dog.

LE likely does not know for certain that the dog was in the place where they found it all night (I.e., throughout the commission of the crime), so they aren’t stating that.

LE may or may not know WHO put the dog where it was found and when they did so and may or may not know if it was crated at any time, including at the time LE found it. That may be information held back strategically (because only the perpetrator would know) or held back because it is unknown (because only the victims would know).

Dog could very well have been tucked in with the two surviving members of the household as they were home first.

 

[Jealoushe]

This was what I thought. So, if someone is "ruled out" based on DNA, it simply means their DNA wasn't found among all the DNA in the house.

Have the police actually said they ruled anyone out based on DNA? Or are we making that assumption because the neighbor has told the news he provided his DNA for the purpose of it ruling him out?

I think this is an important distinction to make, and I am not trying at all to imply that the neighbor wasn't ruled out. I think the distinction is important because, so far, we don't even know from the police IF they have been using DNA to rule anyone out at this point.

I have yet to see any news release from LE that says they are sure which of the DNA profiles they have from the house is of the assailant(s).

I have not seen it anywhere that DNA is what they are using to rule people out. I would assume they are still waiting for a lot of results.

 

[isabella88]

4- The still don’t have a ton of info about X&Es whereabouts - how is that even possible?

My feeling is that LE is having a hard time getting info out of those kids at the party. They are either afraid of getting themselves or someone they like/love in trouble OR their parents quickly lawyered them up. JMO

 

[Ur728]

I'd like to know Brian Entin's source for Kaylee's injuries being more brutal than the other victims. He just posted this which seems to contradict his previous statements. I also doubt LE would tell Mr. Goncalves details about the other victims' injuries.

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Kaylee Goncalves' injuries were "significantly more brutal" - Twitter

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[Balthazar]

Also I pointed this out a whileeee ago but I think in relation to K being the "target", I think it's relevant that she was visiting that night (or a couple of nights?) but otherwise didn't really live there anymore. So, if she was the target, the perp would have had to have known that she was in town (how? saw her? social media? stalker? word of mouth?)

What I recall is that this was described as a last minute decision by K to go visit M and show her her new car. So, IF K is the primary target, then it follows the unsub either:
1. Followed K from her parents house to Moscow
I believe her parents live in Couer D'Alene. So if the unsub was following K around there, would that indicate that he is from Couer D'Alene and less linked to Moscow?
Could this be someone who has known K for a long time?

OR

2. Just so happened to choose that night to surveil the house and found out K was there by seeing her through the windows.
a. They would not have recognized her car if they have been in Moscow as it was new and had not been in Moscow before.
b. They would have only known that she stayed at that house, although she may have been gone from there for a while prior to the murders.

 

[Jealoushe]

There has to be much more to the stalker claim than this. People go out to meet other people all the time, and there is nothing unusual or stalker-ish about this scenario. The man didn’t make contact with K, whether he changed his mind, was too shy or intimidated or a million other reasons. It appears he followed a pretty girl into store. So?

I think it was based on her comments to friends at one point. Not that there might be an actual stalker. MOO

I say things like this too... "oh my insta stalker", about this girl who knows me who makes like 10 fake accounts a month to creep my instagram.

It's common language these days for teens-40 year olds imo.

 

[British Bulldog]

Re: the dog, I feel, based on the newly-released comments about it being found in a room where the crime did not take place with no evidence on it, it may have run and hid when the intruder entered the home. It could even have been hiding under a chair, etc in a common area, such as the kitchen. It would not have to be in a private bedroom necessarily. I don't think we know for sure whether or not it was typical that they crated the dog, but if they did, that could be another possibility. Maybe its crate was in a common room. Just speculation

IMO Perhaps the dog (thankfully) was in the sixth bedroom with door closed as not to disturb the sleeping room mates during the night. I also think mass DNA testing of (whoever has been profiled) would be advantageous to resolving the case if they have no suspects/clues. In the first ever DNA processing in the UK Colin Pitchfork was discovered through this process (his got his mate to provide DNA for him) If anyone refuses (Red flags) However this is only successful if the killer(s) are based in Moscow.

 

[kittythehare]

I'd like to know Brian Entin's source for Kaylee's injuries being more brutal than the other victims. He just posted this which seems to contradict his previous statements. I also doubt LE would tell Mr. Goncalves details about the other victims' injuries.

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LE have not but as next of kin they were entitled to receive her death certificate. They are also close to M's parents who would have received hers.

 

[Barry]

I do not know a single case where DNA from unconvicted persons are put in any database so that’s a red herring.

I have been working in forensic DNA consulting and study since 1987.

Thank you. I had always wondered about that. Somewhat of a relief to know.

 

[10ofRods]

Hmm I wouldn’t have thought to collect trash from the food truck area, but might have been useful.

I feel that if they really suspect him (I believe they are acting as if they have a strong POI and it's not him), LE would send someone to talk to him. If he has in fact left the area, you're right that it's too late to go through the food truck trash - but if they did have DNA from the scene, that would have been a very interesting project to attempt.

Just my two cents. I saw a case where a forensic genealogist took the DNA from a database from one of Genetic Kits ( 23 and Me, ect. ) and tracked DNA and solved a murder case, it was a woman who was doing the Genetic Kit and turns out one of her relatives committed the crime. His DNA was not in a database but because one of his relatives did this genetic testing the case was solved. So apparently there is a database of unconvicted people.

Yes - that's the kind of genealogical work I assist in. However, you need a subpoena to get the data from 23andme, you can't just show up and say you're a forensic genealogist and get it.

Genealogical DNA means you have a good segment of perp DNA and then you attempt to match markers to ones in a large (or small) database (Ancestry/23andme are the biggest). We are seeing several solutions to murder and rape cases per year with this method and it will get larger.

But you need the perp's DNA to do it. In one case I worked, although I didn't know it, I was sent in to do an interview and give a q'naire to a particular person (along with several other persons who were not suspects). I had no idea that the big reason I was having these people fill out bubbles on a form and then give certain kinds of information to me was that LE (who hired me to do a "temperature" study of a certain place)...was to get the pencils and scantron forms for DNA analysis. The pencils and the paper both worked (I knew something was up because I was asked to use new pencils for each person and to put pencil and paper together in a plastic bag).

They never asked me for my DNA, although surely they could have run it from a variety of means. They were just trying to confirm that one particular person had left DNA at a crime scene.

 

[Deleted member 718]

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[Ur728]

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Wow...I wasn't expecting this. I figured they would be garage kept and in the midst of being processed. IMO

 

[Jealoushe]

The first thing that entered my mind when I read that was that the killer put the dog in a separate room. Indicating that the dog knew the killer. MOO IMO

The family members said the dog was timid and probably hiding so my guess is he was likely hiding.

 

[Deleted member 718]

LE have not but as next of kin they were entitled to receive her death certificate. They are also close to M's parents who would have received hers.

Wouldn't they need the autopsy reports to compare details? The death certificate would only tell cause of death. Thanks!

 

[ktm44]

In the previous thread there was a post about K sometimes being a drama queen or something along those lines - the post talked about how her mother & sister knew she could be like that but she was also very street smart, always checking her surroundings. So I guess the stalker claim could be something as simple as that and it got blown out of proportion? I think even her family has walked back the claims that she ever claimed she had a stalker.

All MOO because I can’t find the post

I have no intention of victim blaming or shaming but there are very few young people that I would consider street smart or totally aware of their surroundings.

Most that I see are wearing ear buds, which interferes with their ability to hear someone approaching/following, hoods affect peripheral vision and while I realize it's the in thing to do, way too many people of all ages share way too much personal information on social media.

 

[layer]

Please find 12/5/22 UPDATE from Moscow PD:

Moscow Homicide Update

They release those every day. Is that what you think they were referring to?