ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 27

[samanthadaniels1995]

Agreed. I feel this was a targeted attack. I’ll be honest. There were numerous times in college where I didn’t show up back at my home anywhere from 12-8AM. That’s just college. The killer KNEW everyone was home IMO. Which makes me think he knew who lived there, he knew what his targets were doing, he knew his threats, and he knew where his targets were. He ALSO knew. He wouldn’t be interrupted. This is someone close to the victims.

Yes, those opportunities are there. The other point is that this was on a quiet night and not a party night.

Not everyone is exclusive to being a part of campus when you see their connection to the community. An acquaintance of someone close enough to know what is happening on a particular night could be just as easily be aware.

If thoughts were penetrating my mind about wanting to commit the act (God, forbid me), then when it would be known that that evening would be a quiet evening, it would trigger an awareness of an opportunity and then lead to a heightened alert, then a persistent focus on how to take advantage of the opportunity. Then, stake out the home. And act quickly.

I can't imagine another scenario other than familiarity, persistent thoughts, fantasy in how to commit the murders, strategizing about the best opportunity, and then awareness of an opportunity, heightened alert, staging, then commitment to the fantasy, and follow through of the escape.

Independent of the relationship. This act seems like it had persisted for a while in some form and when the opportunity arrived, they knew in detail what they would do.

Targeted indeed.

 

[10ofRods]

IME with overlapping deep background database research, it would be possible to rate and rank based on the information available, and check in with those owners first. literally, run each car and dig into another file for more info on the person. it's fast. is it foolproof, no, but faster than hotline tips and more reliable, and then do like anything else, start with the most likely, and broaden the scope, as needed. for example, imo a 90 yo woman living in the outer banks of nc is less likely and lower priority than a 30 something yo man living in a college town in WA, and IMO and IME it would be easier to take a lot of shots at it before crowdsourcing it. If you've had the experience working a help line for any reason, you know how bogged down that can be. IMO they know the car was there, they may suspect the car was some version of 'borrowed', and their luck may have ended there, hence the need for crowdsourcing.

of course, imo, if I'm a killer with any wits about me, I'm def not taking my own car nor am I taking a car that can be tied back to me. My planning would def take into account 'beyond a reasonable doubt'. Someone who looks like me in a random white car seen at the house - my defense atty can shoot big holes in that. Someone who looks like me in my own car seen at the house, that's throwing some reasonable doubt out the windows with both hands.

I sure hope this is what LE is doing. Obviously, local Elantras (registered) would have already been investigated. No luck.

So now - for some reason - LE thinks the Elantra occupants possess crucial information. You're likely right that the killer did not take a car that could be tied back to him.

So whose car is it? I agree with your entire last paragraph. It's very hard to envision a scenario in which LE are doing a type of BOLO for a car that has possible witnesses, but no identifying information.

I'm guessing the car did not ever contain the killer - but might have other information, although I can't imagine what it could be.

 

[HopeValleyDevil]

Don't apologize. That's not pedantic, just a fact. Thanks for the post.

Police haven't said much at all. In fact one of the parents is seeking legal avenue for information which I have no opinion on.

However this URL has referenced this post prior

Police seek ‘Rambo’-style knife in probe of Idaho student murders: report

Police investigating the slaughter of four University of Idaho students have asked the manager of a local store owner whether he sold a “Rambo”-style knife known as KA-BAR to anyone.

nypost.com

 

[GhostGhost]

It looks like the FBI pretty much took over.

They asked for all footage and cam shots in the area, and provided an FBI portal to upload it.

About 4 days, later they came out Ultra-specifically wanting that 2011-2013 White Hyundai Elantra.

I’m betting the farm that came from a Camera.

2014 Elantra’s have subtle differences and they are certain of the color.

Have you seen people at 3:00 - 4:00 am?
They have their own objectives and concerns. No one knew there was a murder until 7-8 hrs later. There is no reason for the local Hyundai specialist to be up and focusing on anyone. I’ve lived in a college town, and you quickly become acclimated to people not wanting the night to end.

 

[Ozoner]

The killer could be a very young thrill killer. I think he's probably in his 20s, but I would go as young as 15.

The Bever brothers were only 18 and 16 when they stabbed five members of their own family to death. They killed their mother, their father, their 12-year-old brother, their 6-year-old brother, and their 5-year-old sister.

Only their 13-year-old sister, Crystal, survived the attack (with numerous knife wounds).

Their only motive seemed to be notoriety/glory.

ETA: Their 2-year-old sister was unharmed but only because they hadn't gotten to her yet when the cops breached the door to the house.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

What's weird, though, is that surely LE wouldn't put the car driver/owner at risk? Right? A bunch of people with the same car are now treated as if they are possible criminals - and there's almost no chance that anything can be gained from this effort.

Unless of course, LE already knows or suspects who the person is and has them under watch.

then why ask for the public's help? IDGI

 

[Auntie Cipation]

I would think this means they had to have spoken to J and he was able to say who called him and when. If they just had access to their family phone records, they would not have known who made the calls if they all came from K's number, and if M used her phone they would not have known this at all. MOO

Why wouldn't LE have M's phone records as well as K's?

and/or, wouldn't J's phone confirm that some of the call attempts came from M's phone?

 

[samanthadaniels1995]

In the first interview with K's mom & sister (I'll have to go back to find it to link it here, so I'll edit this comment when I have it), the sister said that K's was on a shared plan with their mom - which would give them online access to phone the call log. So they pulled up K's phone bill to see who she had contact with last & found the calls to J.

Txt msg is not shared, only the event of a txt msg right ?

As well, some people do not initiate their voice mail because they prefer that the person calls back or texts. Too much time to manage listening or clearing a voice msg account when full.

 

[drmrgrl]

I’m still pining on this, but I still find the pathway (stairs) on Shetland Ct to Walenta/Ridge as peculiar, or ideal. Zeroing in further and it almost appears if this pathway extended N it would literally run through 1122, down the steps in front of 1122, and out to Taylor, where (I believe) the questionable jacket was retrieved.

I’m chalking it up to another likely obscurity in the case. Interesting nonetheless.

What jacket?

 

[drmrgrl]

I would not recognize the smell of blood. I’ve never smelled a massive amount of blood before however. Even if I had, there’s no way it would click in my mind that a mass murder had just occurred in my house.

Blood has an iron metallic odor to it.Next time you have a bloody nose, it will be apparent

 

[XtremeScorpio]

I'm not sure how I missed this but that is a great point!
If there were only unanswered phone calls, no texts or voice mails, there would have been no way to know that all the calls weren't by K since it was her phone. So there must be messages.
Great thinking!

In the first interview with K's mom & sister (I'll have to go back to find it to link it here, so I'll edit this comment when I have it), the sister said that K's was on a shared plan with their mom - which would give them online access to phone the call log. So they pulled up K's phone bill to see who she had contact with last & found the calls to J

Not the first time I've seen someone mention this, and I have to ask... does this actually happen? I have some decent chef's knives, and I can't imagine the tips breaking off under any scenario.

According to the true crime shows I watch it does. Lol

 

[debbiediablo]

Cartels, and perhaps gangs as well, are not unknown to use blades, particularly when sending warnings/messages.

On their own turf, sometimes. And only when the risk of detection is close to zero. But there's no message being sent because whoever was intended to receive it is clueless.

 

[Ozoner]

Agreed. I feel this was a targeted attack. I’ll be honest. There were numerous times in college where I didn’t show up back at my home anywhere from 12-8AM. That’s just college. The killer KNEW everyone was home IMO. Which makes me think he knew who lived there, he knew what his targets were doing, he knew his threats, and he knew where his targets were. He ALSO knew. He wouldn’t be interrupted. This is someone close to the victims.

I disagree with the theory that he must have been close to the victims. He might have spotted one of them and become sexually obsessed and fantasized a relationship. He may not have ever interacted with whichever victim was his target.

It may also be that he just wanted to kill for the thrill—the thrill of killing and the thrill of creating public terror. He might have picked the house because he noticed that only girls lived there and might not have had a specific girl in mind as his target.

 

[10ofRods]

You "wonder if police have worked through the datasets of stolen white Elantras, from the inner perimeter out?"

Again, there is zero evidence that the car is stolen. Absent some reason to think otherwise, I see no need even consider the possibility. I suspect LE feels the same (to be fair, this is merely an educated guess - I have no inside knowledge of how LE conducts such investigations).

Very few cars are stolen. That includes cars that were used as transportation to commit a crime. Is it possible? Sure, it's possible.

Auto Theft Statistics

Auto theft statistics and insurance information.

www.rmiia.org

Depends on what you mean by "very few." It's way higher in the US than in some places.

I agree with you though - if LE thought it was stolen, they'd be dealing with this differently.

As a reminder, this is what the coroner disclosed after the autopsies with respect to defensive wounds (BBM):

“Four University of Idaho students who were found dead in a rental house Sunday were stabbed to death in their beds and likely were asleep, the Latah County Coroner said Friday.

The four victims were likely asleep, some had defensive wounds, and each was stabbed multiple times with a "pretty large knife," the coroner said, adding that there was no sign of sexual assault.

"It has to be somebody pretty angry in order to stab four people to death," Latah County Coroner Cathy Mabbut told a cable news channel. The victims were stabbed in the chest and upper body, the coroner said.”

University of Idaho murders: 4 students were stabbed to death in their beds and likely asleep, Latah County Coroner says | abc7news.com

I believe someone (I believe it to be LE/Coroner) mentioned that X had defensive wounds.

As to other defensive wounds, I think the info comes from parents, not LE/Coroner directly.

Where is the information coming from that there are only 6,000 white Elantras nationwide? The model year is 2011—2013 according to LE.

According to this car sales web site, there were 186,361 MY2011, 202,034 MY2012, and 247,912 MY2013 Elantras sold in the US. That 636,307 over the three model years.

According to CNBC, 39% of the cars in the world are painted white. That would be 248,160 white Elantras from those model years.

It's difficult to say how many are still on the road, but even if we use 50% as an estimate, that would be 124,080 white MY2011—MY2013 Elantras still on the road in the US (and the percentage of them still on the road is almost certainly higher than 50%; the average age of cars on the road today is 12.2 years according to Kelly Blue Book).

I don't have time to go back to thread 20 or where ever it was. Make the number whatever you want. Several people have said 600,000 total Elantras from 2011-2013, of which about 10% were white. Others have posted that their research says it's 3% were white (smaller number).

Let's just go with 40% white (haven't seen that before - CNBC must have its own sources, this is not a car manufacturer's data or data from the US ports who track these thigs).

So of the 240,000 white Elantras - how many are in Idaho or adjacent states? Any estimate? Surely 10% are out of commission, so...what percent of 220,000 Elantras are in Idaho?

If you want it to be 22,000 it's still a lot - which was my point. Not few. Many to track down. Some won't be where people think. Estimates of non-registered cars in the region range from 5-12% and the number may be increasing. So how many registered Elantras are we talking about someone tracking down here? 10,000 instead of my 6,000? I was trying to be optimistic.

 

[Which_pancake]

Why wouldn't LE have M's phone records as well as K's?

and/or, wouldn't J's phone confirm that some of the call attempts came from M's phone?

I assume LE has everyone's records. I was talking about the the initial reporting about the calls that I thought came from Ks sister saying she had looked at their family phone records. I could be misremembering.

 

[drmrgrl]

Never saw this! Why in the world did they just throw it back on the ground???

It looked sort of like a small black tarp type covering- something that you would use on top of your outdoor grill to shield it from the elements IMO

 

[NuttMegg]

Txt msg is not shared, only the event of a txt msg right ?

As well, some people do not initiate their voice mail because they prefer that the person calls back or texts. Too much time to manage listening or clearing a voice msg account when full.

If someone texts me, on my phone account or whatsapp, and If I miss the text.....there it is waiting for me word for word when I finally open it. So, not sure what you mean by "only the event of a text msg being shared"?

 

[lucidium]

Auto Theft Statistics

Auto theft statistics and insurance information.

www.rmiia.org

Depends on what you mean by "very few." It's way higher in the US than in some places.

I agree with you though - if LE thought it was stolen, they'd be dealing with this differently.


I believe someone (I believe it to be LE/Coroner) mentioned that X had defensive wounds.

As to other defensive wounds, I think the info comes from parents, not LE/Coroner directly.



I don't have time to go back to thread 20 or where ever it was. Make the number whatever you want. Several people have said 600,000 total Elantras from 2011-2013, of which about 10% were white. Others have posted that their research says it's 3% were white (smaller number).

Let's just go with 40% white (haven't seen that before - CNBC must have its own sources, this is not a car manufacturer's data or data from the US ports who track these thigs).

So of the 240,000 white Elantras - how many are in Idaho or adjacent states? Any estimate? Surely 10% are out of commission, so...what percent of 220,000 Elantras are in Idaho?

If you want it to be 22,000 it's still a lot - which was my point. Not few. Many to track down. Some won't be where people think. Estimates of non-registered cars in the region range from 5-12% and the number may be increasing. So how many registered Elantras are we talking about someone tracking down here? 10,000 instead of my 6,000? I was trying to be optimistic.

By 'very few' I meant as a percentage of cars. Sorry, should have been more clear. I agree with your overall point - it's absurd to think police are tracking down all white 2011-2013 Elantras.

 

[Charlot123]

Thank you! I didn’t know anything about prospecting prior to your post.

I was thinking of this group mostly in the concept of serial killers - they have lots of skills, the reason to travel and are usually alone for the whole day. Visiting populous towns would make them uncomfortable, but bars - they like, as alcohol works for social anxiety.

I have another question. What about these incessant stories, basically, in every case, about LE visiting local stores to ask it anyone bought knives, etc. I am thinking - what is the best place to shop for anything, local stores or Amazon with its huge bulk of sales? Maybe even Costco. I definitely would not purchase in a tiny store if I wanted to be forgotten. I don't know about Amazon's digital trail, but Costco is a good place.

 

[GMG1999]

Question: If you have blood or DNA from the killer, but he/she has never had crimes where their DNA was collected, how do they find out who the DNA is from? I know little about how DNA works.