ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 29

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I saw that little bit last night. It’s hard to say if it was just kids running or something else.

Well they may have been running but to or from what !?

They don’t look like they were out on a sports training run, in the dark, not in sport clothes IMO

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Indeed, and the profiler who keeps using the word 'satiation' in his postulations is spot on, IMO, because one only stabs 4 people to death in one sitting, and while they sleep, if and only if he has an unquenchable bloodlust and compulsion to kill.

This ain't the work of no frat boy, incel, or aggrieved ex-lover. This is serious business done by a seriously disturbed sadist.

My opinion.

Whoever got taken 3rd and 4th may not have been intended but because they were awake and coming to see what was happening?

 

[Breakout]

On another note, I've wondered if the killer started on the third floor, then moved to the second floor, and ultimately fled the house after encountering resistance and some noise from X or E. They may have had intentions of continuing to the first floor but felt the need to flee after encountering resistance.

I’m wondering the same. If you look at the layout of the 2nd floor, especially the virtual rendering online, it would be way easier to come in through the 2nd floor slider, put the dog in the empty 2nd floor bedroom, and head upstairs. If K was the target, then maybe the plan was to leave after killing her. Perhaps a barking or whining dog roused E and X on the second floor and that’s what was encountered on the way down. Thus you get the “fought like hell” scenario that the ME allegedly told SG. Surely the killer was scratched or at least had some noticeable marks.

If you start on the 2nd floor with a huge fight, then surely you are awakening the others above.

Also, if we believe K or anyone specifically was targeted, as opposed to being targeted for “type” or what you represent for the killer, then I’m thinking it’s got to be someone local to Moscow or their respective hometowns. And if it’s local then I have to believe he was stalking them that earlier that night, at all the places behforehand. Was he in the white car then? Did he show up for work or class on Monday or Tuesday with scratches of a dubious nature?

We are a month out and if LE hasn’t brought that to the attention of the community then the memory is now waning.

 

[10ofRods]

I am trying to read all the posts, but it is difficult to see where one stops and another starts, so forgive me if this item has been discussed earlier: some earlier post referred to a door code. My question is does a door code requirement mean that no one needed an actual key to enter? I have not seen any mention of damage to the front door. Was there any?

If no one has responded, it appears there are two possible "front doors." One is on the back side of the house (as usually judged) and adjacent to a little parking lot - it's the first floor, where the two surviving housemates were located.

The other is the door that goes into the living room/kitchen - it's the door that I personally would think of as the front door. Near it is a sliding glass door that LE says may have been used for entry - it is possible that the slider was easily jimmied as most sliders of that type can be, or that it was unlocked.

There's a key code on the door near the slider - and, I think, another on the exterior door to the "basement" level. It was said that there were key code boxes on the actual rooms - but the pictures submitted by sleuthers to various sites may or may not be showing 1122 King Road.

 

[Dysfunkshun]

I am trying to read all the posts, but it is difficult to see where one stops and another starts, so forgive me if this item has been discussed earlier: some earlier post referred to a door code. My question is does a door code requirement mean that no one needed an actual key to enter? I have not seen any mention of damage to the front door. Was there any?

Yes; you just punch a code into the keypad.
According to LE, there was no forced entry.

 

[Curiousaus]

MOO - I understand everyone grieves differently, and there would be so much frustration. I can’t help feel for X and E’s family, this case has turned in to M and K victims and X and E collateral damage, almost an after thought.

SG while releasing this information may help him, this could very well be more traumatising to X and E’s family who are also in the depths of grief.

 

[Thora_Jay]

I am trying to read all the posts, but it is difficult to see where one stops and another starts, so forgive me if this item has been discussed earlier: some earlier post referred to a door code. My question is does a door code requirement mean that no one needed an actual key to enter? I have not seen any mention of damage to the front door. Was there any?

@Margo Hughes
I have a keypad on both doors the front door and back door.
They both came with 2 sets of keys each.
I used the key before to get in when the batteries died. Both doors automatically lock as soon as you close them. So the keys are incase the batteries die. I have had the keypads for over a decade and only had to use a key that one time.

 

[hopewell]

People who are seriously disturbed sadists can also be students, incels or ex-boyfriends, sadly.

True, but again the FBI's definition of 'targeted' specifically says that it has only observed killings like this when they were carefully calculated and meticulously planned. Not the kind of impulse crime that an externalized impulsive rage killer tends to perpetrate when he's been slighted by a specific person. This was an internalized, longstanding, lingering, insatiable bloodlust from the depths of a shallow soul, IMO, and was perpetrated to fulfill a fantasy that most probably had no bearing on the identity of the victims themselves.

Should also say that developmentally it isn't likely that someone in their late teens/early twenties could both conjure up and execute something quite so extravagant, sadistic, and depraved.

My opinion.

 

[10ofRods]

Whoever got taken 3rd and 4th may not have been intended but because they were awake and coming to see what was happening?

Then why does the ME say they were all "sleeping" at the time of their attacks? That's a basic thing to figure out, the direction of the wounds and the bleeding onto the bed should show that. I don't believe anyone got up to check - it's possible Ethan was in motion, but it's also possible that he didn't move until the perp was actually in the room.

Both SG and the coroner are saying that K and M were in their bed. No defensive wounds mentioned by the coroner. So I say they were killed first, if we have to choose.

And it's possible that E and X were pushed closer to a wakeful state by something they heard. But the report still emphasizes that the victims were "sleeping."

 

[Kittycat40]

Re the white car -

Why don’t LE say we *know* the car was in the area at the time instead of ‘we believe’ it was. It comes off as disingenuous.

I’m a semantics and linguistics pedant and so are the people who word such statements and their words have been carefully crafted.

I don’t know for sure why LE said that but I’ll give you my theory on why they said that. LE dosen’t know with 100% certainty that the killer and or killers were in that white Hyundai near the murder scene. They do know for sure that the person and or persons in that white hyundai could be innocent witnesses who can provide pivotal information for the case so they don’t want to “scare” that person off.

But again the person and or persons in the white hyundai could very well have been the killer and or Killers.

Either way it’s very eyebrow raising that whoever that was in that white hyundai near the murder scene on the morning of Nov 13 has not come forward so far. This has been national news everyday, all over the internet, all over news stations, all over the newspapers ever since the murders occurred etc So I am sure whoever that was driving the white Hyundai near the murder scene on Nov 13 is aware that LE would like to talk with them.

 

[otto]

I'm re-reading the quote here from the Moscow PD site.

"...the suspect(s) specifically looked at this residence..."

This leads me to believe it's possible that right away they had some type of hard evidence that somebody was checking out the house. When a car was set on fire in a parking lot across from where I work, the LE asked me for footage from my building's outdoor security cameras. No doubt LE quickly asked to look through all the neighbors' cameras. If a certain car was seen driving by again and again, slowing down, stopping in front of the house, etc..., would that be firm enough for LE to believe it was a "targeted attack"? Something like that would explain why they aren't sure if it's residence or the occupants that were targeted. But I'd have to assume they'd need to pair a video like that with some other detail within the crime scene before leaning so heavily that the attack was targeted. All just my opinions of course.

That quote was a "miscommunication". Police have since released the statement that they are unsure whether the residence, or an occupant of the residence, was the target.


"Then, on Wednesday, the Moscow police said that the prosecutor in Idaho’s Latah County erroneously had said this week that “the suspect(s) specifically looked at this residence,” and “that one or more of the occupants were undoubtedly targeted.”

The police statement said the prosecutor’s comments were a “miscommunication,” adding, “Detectives do not currently know if the residence or any occupants were specifically targeted.”

Dec 5

Moscow police say a sixth person on the lease isn't involved in the Idaho student killings | CNN

The Moscow Police Department said on Friday that they don't believe a sixth person listed on the lease at the residence, where four University of Idaho students were killed last month, was involved in their deaths.

www.cnn.com

 

[hopewell]

Whoever got taken 3rd and 4th may not have been intended but because they were awake and coming to see what was happening?

They were all likely asleep when they were killed, according to the coroner.

 

[General wooster]

What baffles me most is that someone could slaughter 4 pepole and not leave any blood trail while leaving……we don’t see any markings by police outside. No indication that they even identified one drop of blood anywhere. Not one site marked for identification. it doesn’t seem possible. Not even outside the sliding door where I am assuming the killer escaped, or the 3rd floor porch if he/she leaped out on the hill to head for Walenta Drive.

How does one do that?

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Then why does the ME say they were all "sleeping" at the time of their attacks? That's a basic thing to figure out, the direction of the wounds and the bleeding onto the bed should show that. I don't believe anyone got up to check - it's possible Ethan was in motion, but it's also possible that he didn't move until the perp was actually in the room.

Both SG and the coroner are saying that K and M were in their bed. No defensive wounds mentioned by the coroner. So I say they were killed first, if we have to choose.

And it's possible that E and X were pushed closer to a wakeful state by something they heard. But the report still emphasizes that the victims were "sleeping."

Well depending on what is true - we need clarification and detail. If anyone put up a ferocious fight and was covered in defence wounds and was not found on their bed, they were not sleeping. They could have called out maybe ‘what’s going on?’ or such like and been a threat but not standing out of bed

 

[Stratocaster]

Which window had the almost full palm mark on the glass, in relative to the house layout?

 

[Margo Hughes]

@Margo Hughes
I have a keypad on both doors the front door and back door.
They both came with 2 sets of keys each.
I used the key before to get in when the batteries died. Both doors automatically lock as soon as you close them. So the keys are incase the batteries die. I have had the keypads for over a decade and only had to use a key that one time.

Thank you for the speedy response! Appreciated!!

 

[SMK777]

Then why does the ME say they were all "sleeping" at the time of their attacks? That's a basic thing to figure out, the direction of the wounds and the bleeding onto the bed should show that. I don't believe anyone got up to check - it's possible Ethan was in motion, but it's also possible that he didn't move until the perp was actually in the room.

Both SG and the coroner are saying that K and M were in their bed. No defensive wounds mentioned by the coroner. So I say they were killed first, if we have to choose.

And it's possible that E and X were pushed closer to a wakeful state by something they heard. But the report still emphasizes that the victims were "sleeping."

Some of the murdered University of Idaho students were stabbed in their beds, coroner says

According to police, the coroner said all four victims were likely asleep, some had defensive wounds and each was stabbed multiple times.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[Janitor101]

I hope you never lose a child. There is no “counseling”, no solace, no reprieve. The grief is all encompassing and it takes your legs out from under you. The world is turned upside down, and nothing makes sense or matters except getting answers. You somehow believe that those answers will bring you peace, so you go balls to the wall to get them. The sad truth is that even getting those answers will never be enough. The pain will still be there, the fog that surrounds you won’t lift, and the fact that life continues and the world is still spinning seems, at best, to be sacrilege.

Please…let that father wail and scream and beat his chest. Let him name call and stir emotions. Let him, while he is remembering holding his daughter’s hand, while he is remembering her first steps, while he recalling dropping her off at college for the first time, let him grieve. He has earned that. He deserves that. Every parent who has ever had to look into the lifeless eyes of their dead child deserves that. Begrudging him that right is not anyone’s right. If the worst he does in his darkest hours is name call, LE is going to need to suck it up. That was his daughter.
~A Grieving Mom

I think part of his anger has to do with LE having to rule out each family member from early on in the investigation. I've watched videos of investigators interrogating various individuals and it certainly is uncomfortable to say the very least. If this is the case here, he was no doubt terribly offended which is perfectly understandable and not unusual in any way. In fact, it may be one reason he chose to hire an attorney, but this is only guesswork or speculation on my part. It does explain why he has expressed such vitriol and criticism towards LE. MOO

 

[10ofRods]

True, but again the FBI's definition of 'targeted' specifically says that it has only observed killings like this when they were carefully calculated and meticulously planned. Not the kind of impulse crime that an externalized impulsive rage killer tends to perpetrate when he's been slighted by a specific person. This was an internalized, longstanding, lingering, insatiable bloodlust from the depths of a shallow soul, IMO, and was perpetrated to fulfill a fantasy that most probably had no bearing on the identity of the victims themselves.

My opinion.

Oh, I totally agree. I'm only saying that an introverted, planning sadist can ALSO be an incel, or a doctor, or a truck driver, or a lawyer, or a student or anyone else. These are not exclusive categories.

I do not think this is an impulsive rage killer, exactly (although again, you can have people who are great planners also fly off into rages - it's actually a scary personality blend, IMO).

I totally agree that this was planned - and my own word would be...meticulously planned. Researched on the internet. Telegraphed to others in only the most hidden ways - a challenge to people around him, "See who I am? You don't even look at me - you don't see who I am!"

Internalized, longstanding, lingering - YES. A grievance collector who decided that he was eventually going to lose it and commit some bloody crime - so he spent the last year or so planning it very well.

This argues for a long refractory period, as seen with other killers. Eventually (maybe), the rage will rise again - right now, he's just very concerned with executing this plan and not getting caught.

As to whether his quest had to do with the identity of the victims or not - I go back and forth.

You are describing (and I totally agree) a really disturbed and relatively rare individual. It's hard to believe that this rando rage sadist could be in the inner circle of the victims, but he's somewhere - lurking around some people, somewhere. He doesn't live in a tent. He has internet, I'm convinced of it. He stalked them online, most likely. It's possible he's from out of state - and that something in their profiles/backgrounds/follower base...caught his attention. When people permit strangers from around the nation to share in their Instagram world (esp if there are DM's), all of a sudden, many people are now involved with convos with...bad actors. Something either drew this killer to Moscow (if he didn't already live there) or he's a sadist crazy killer who is a local of some kind (not necessarily born there of course).

These days, there are a lot of people who think it's funny to flip people off or stand up to them verbally in public - people in general are less demure than in the past (MOO, but based on available research). The easily offended sadistic grievance collector is rare - but they are out there. This guy needs to be caught.

Not sure of whether we can discuss actual theories about a serial killer thoroughly at this point.

 

[layer]

If no one has responded, it appears there are two possible "front doors." One is on the back side of the house (as usually judged) and adjacent to a little parking lot - it's the first floor, where the two surviving housemates were located.

The other is the door that goes into the living room/kitchen - it's the door that I personally would think of as the front door. Near it is a sliding glass door that LE says may have been used for entry - it is possible that the slider was easily jimmied as most sliders of that type can be, or that it was unlocked.

There's a key code on the door near the slider - and, I think, another on the exterior door to the "basement" level. It was said that there were key code boxes on the actual rooms - but the pictures submitted by sleuthers to various sites may or may not be showing 1122 King Road.

I don't believe there is any other door in the back/kitchen area except for the sliding glass door, and it has no key code. At least I have never seen such a thing. I'm open to correction on this. Anyone ever see a door with, or without, a key code in the back of the house other than the sliding glass door?

Is it possible you are looking at pre-renovation pictures?