ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 33

[cujenn81]

This crime is beyond that of a jealous ex. Killing 3 additional people means that this killer is a real lunatic. I doubt that it's anyone that they are "friends" with. I think it's a stranger or someone on the outskirts of their circle... like a Tier 3 acquaintance. I wish LE would actually say who they think the target was. It's a lot of wasted energy discussing every piece of KG's life which may be totally irrelevant if the crime was actually about X&E or otherwise.

I tend to agree. I think we’re most likely dealing with an Elliot Rodger type of situation here.

I think this guy hates women. I think he especially hates beautiful women. I think he hates men who have relationships with beautiful women because he hasn’t been able to do it. I think something triggered him to come up with a plan to make the community/campus as a whole pay for this perceived injustice. I think a woman rejected him — maybe one of the female victims or maybe someone completely unrelated to this crime — and it was the last straw for him.

I think this guy is egotistical and narcissistic. I think he’s a guy who didn’t want to die or go out in a blaze of glory because he wanted to see the chaos and terror that he created. I think he needed to feel the redemption he was after. I think he came up with a plan that would create enough carnage to be impactful but also pose little risk of getting caught or killed. If he went on a shooting rampage, he'd most likely be killed or caught. So, I think he scoped out and found a location that guaranteed a large number of popular and attractive “sitting ducks” he could easily kill in the dead of the night with little risk of being caught.

I think he planned it out well ahead of time and I think he chose that weekend to carry out his plan on purpose. Not only would many students be leaving the area for the holidays (which would make things more difficult for LE because people aren’t around to interview and he could also lay low for awhile without raising suspicions) but it would also be more impactful, as losing loved ones around the holidays always feels especially unfair.

I think this guy chose to “target” that particular house for several different reasons:
A) a large number of women lived there
B) several of the women frequently had boyfriends stay over
C) all of the residents were attractive and popular
D) he may have also been rejected by one (or more) of the females who lived there

I think he watched the house for several days or weeks to gather information about their habits. I think he probably entered the home at night on more than one occasion (most likely when no one was home) to familiarize himself with the layout. I think he watched the house that night and waited until everyone was home. I think he waited a reasonable amount of time after the lights went out and then put his plan into action.

I think these attacks were methodical and well-planned out. I think he meant to kill everyone in the house, but something didn't go according to plan and spooked him enough to abandon the remaining roommates and hightail it out of there. Maybe one of the victims nearly got the upper hand when they tried to defend themselves. Maybe he injured himself and worried about leaving blood behind. Maybe he caught a glimpse of blue lights in the window when cops responded to the nearby band field call. It could've been any number of things.

Ultimately, I think this was done by some overly sensitive, narcissistic nobody with an explosive temper and few friends. If he knew the victims, I think he knew them tangentially at best.

That's my 2¢.

 

[warbuckle]

I semi watched and woke up to GHI last night but was half asleep, he had enhanced the audio and was playing it while the chat was guessing what was being said.
He focuses in on the male voice at the end of the show.
I dont’ see other people near them, nor do I hear other voices. These three are not talking at the same time and the volume seems related to the distance from the camera.

Last night I found the location, they are walking south on Main on the east side of the road. In front of what was Calamity Janes shown on Google Earth, headed toward Lodgepole. You can see the Moscow Water Works in the still image- it is the A frame high pitch roof in the top left.

I just listened again, this is what it sounds like to me.
Male “We’re gonna ditch those guys.”
Kaylee “MADS, what did you say to ADAM!?”
Maddee “I, I told Adam everything.”

We know from Maddie’s dad that Adam was the bartender <modsnip - rumor> I’d focus on whatever conflict occurred at the bar.

 

[cottonweaver]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1604823886494924801

I don't get it.
How can a former prosecutor, Shanon Grey, not know why this could take longer than 5 weeks?

and on what is he basing this claim that the leadership is inadequate and needs to be changed? He says ' Im not sure they're capable of handling a quadruple murder.... if they are in over their heads... turn this over to somebody more versed in handling this type of matter'

why say all that on NBC news if you're ' not sure' and you're just speculating ?

He's already met with the lead investigator from MPD and the joint leader from ISP ( he said so in his last interview. he didn't mention meeting w the lead from FBI, as expected)


edited to add:
If he has something specific ( other than MPD's poor comms) he should just come out & say it instead of fooling around. ( Or at that juncture why doesn't an interviewing reporter reply wtte put up or shut-up Shannon? or ' specifically what do you mean Mr Grey?)

this kind of talk will not help frustration levels of Steve Goncalves & family ( nor, potentially the other families)

 

[lucidium]

To me, the car in the video is a Nissan Sentra, not a Hyundai Elantra. Imagine the embarrassment of Moscow police if they find out that it actually was a Nissan.

The Moscow police have never claimed to see an Elantra in any video that we, the public, have seen.

 

[cottonweaver]

I’ve seen the footage in other places, clips and this longer version is from NewsNation
Madee is walking pretty smoothly, she is not staggering like she is later. Is she?

At the GrubTruck she is staggering, and swaying while standing still

JMO

yes agree was obviously v v drunk at Grub Truck but do we know when this longer clip was filmed? Hours before when she was less drunk or just minutes before on way to Grub Truck ( Sometimes when you're drunk you have really good forward motion when you're walking straight ahead and can look less drunk . plus this longer clip is only 16 seconds snapshot so it's very hard to be sure she's less drunk in it. )

 

[Rosiebones]

Or rage. IMO Perhaps the four roommates were unintentionally complicit in something and I dont mean crime. What if all four of them knew something about a student, a previous roommate, a business or a neighbor and it was accidentally revealed. And what if whatever was revealed led to a tremendous loss, somebody got fired, someone was arrested, someone got expelled, somebody cheated, someone got kicked out of school or lost their scholarship, someone got in trouble, someone’s heart was broken, somebody was shamefully embarrassed or humiliated, someone was extremely disrespected in some way or lost their status or reputation.There was a serious loss of some type and this was the resultant consequence. I’m not victim blaming, I am just trying to make sense of the sequence of events that night that might have set someone over the edge.

So far, this makes the most sense to me. It could also be the basis for LE saying the people or the house was targeted. MOO MOO MOO

 

[Zinn]

I’ve watched the full footage from the camera along Main just south of Corner Club, and also the footage at the GrubTruck.
The difference in M’s inebriation is noticeable, IMO.

Is she not more intoxicated in her walking and standing at the GrubTruck as compared to her smoother walk down the street?
I of course don’t know if that is true or if it even means anything. Maybe she took a shot as she walked out the door and It is hitting at the GrubTruck?

JMO

Looks very inebriated to me in the walking clip. Highly exaggerated arm swinging, lack of awareness of body in space in relation to other pedestrians.

 

[Which_pancake]

I don't get it.
How can a former prosecutor, Shanon Grey, not know why this could take longer than 5 weeks?

and on what is he basing this claim that the leadership is inadequate and needs to be changed? He says ' Im not sure they're capable of handling a quadruple murder.... if they are in over their heads... turn this over to somebody more versed in handling this type of matter'

why say all that on NBC news if you're ' not sure' and you're just speculating ?

He's already met with the lead investigator from MPD and the joint leader from ISP ( he said so in his last interview. he didn't mention meeting w the lead from FBI, as expected)

Also, shouldn't he know that they can't just "turn it over" to someone else? I mean, the MPD is always going to be the lead on these homicides that occurred in their jurisdiction as far as I understand it...

 

[sunshineray]

Complicated evidence is an understatement in this investigation. How did the responding officers “secure and protect the integrity” of said crime scene? Of the house? Of the fragile evidence inside? If the evidence possibly outside of the home? Of the extra students (does anyone know how many additional people arrived at the home after the two remaining roomates called them?) mulling around the home and further contaminating the crime scene? This deck seems stacked against the investigators from the get-go. I hope they find the proverbial needle in the haystack, and expose the killer or killers who unleashed this travesty and subsequent terror upon these students and community. JMOO

I hope either the killer cut himself and/or one or more of the victims managed to scratch or hit them good to obtain their DNA.

 

[SteveP]

Exactly. And if I were a roommate in the house and awoke to silence - especially after calling out their names or trying to open a door…and came upon a scene which looked frightening and alarming…I’d think the person responsible may still be INSIDE OF THE HOME. Apparently none of them “cleared” the home before calling support (friends) to come over and try to wake the sleeping or unconscious roomates? Did they see any blood? Did they actually find them much EARLIER in the morning - but wait to call the police out of fear? Did they think drugs or fentanyl was involved? Did they suspect an intruder? The whole thing seems so shady and sketchy. JMOHO

When I first learned that two roommates were at home, and survived the killings, I, like most, was shocked. Then when I heard that they did not report the crimes until just before noon, I assumed that they had just woken up, which I think would not be uncommon at all, for college kids on weekends when they could sleep in. Whatever they actually may have seen before summoning friends to the house is unknown to us, but I am willing to cut them some slack as to why they summoned the friends before 9-1-1 was called. It is likely that the friends were close enough by that they could get there in just a moment, and the girls were very likely traumatized, especially if they saw one of their roommates, "unconscious" on the floor.

I personally think the girls saw more than just an "unconscious" roommate, and they knew it. I think they were absolutely terrified, and in shock, and as a 60-something-year-old, I might think I would have reacted differently, but as a 20ish college kid, suddenly aware something horrific has happened in the home I shared with good friends, I am not certain that any of us would have been thinking more logically.

The surviving roommates are victims, as well, and I do not find anything "sketchy" about their actions. JMO

 

[General wooster]

Except LE has already states those 2 cases in Oregon are not related to this one.

Hard to understand since neither case has resulted in apprehending a killer.

 

[cottonweaver]

Also, shouldn't he know that they can't just "turn it over" to someone else? I mean, the MPD is always going to be the lead on these homicides that occurred in their jurisdiction as far as I understand it...

Yes formally - not going to happen

But he's already said, in passing, the day before that he knows that effectively it's a joint lead investigation. He mentioned meeting ISP lead as well as MPD lead in person. ( I really didn't expect FBI's case lead to meet him)

 

[Which_pancake]

Hard to understand since neither case has resulted in apprehending a killer.

They could have DNA profiles that don't match. MOO

 

[ag513]

No, no, and no.

Why does this theory persist? If any of those were true, the roommates would not have "believed one of the second-floor victims had passed out and was not waking up."

I cannot imagine a single scenario where the roommates saw the victims' bodies and mistakenly concluded that they were passed out.

I may be totally wrong, but my feeling has alway been that LE used extremely vague and soft language to describe the 911 call (i.e., that they saw a person passed out) to shield the public from what the roommates actually saw (which is most likely a ton of blood and at least one murdered body). LE have kept so much of the info close to the chest, so why would they go into graphic detail about what the roommates saw? I feel like they are shielding the public from the gory details of what actually happened with that call because it might give more info than they actually want the public to know. Does anyone else feel this way?

With regard to the roommates calling in friends before LE, let's remember that these women are in the Greek system. I was in a sorority in college and due to Greek houses being put on probation or having their charter revoked (kicked off campus) we were conditioned to be massively hesitant to ever call LE about anything. While I was in college, I knew multiple men who died in fraternity houses from alcohol overdoses because the fraternities were so afraid to call LE or take someone to the hospital for fear that they would get their fraternity kicked off campus. I once broke my foot while drunk (age 19) and before anyone would take me to the hospital, I had to remove any clothing that had my sorority's letters on it and they made me wait a few hours at our sorority house so that I could try to sober up. They were nervous for me to even give my home address (which the hospital would know was a sorority house) when I finally went in. Fear of LE and trying to cover up anything that could put your sorority/fraternity in jeopardy is deeply embedded in the Greek culture and mindset. In this Idaho situation, with LE being at their house previously (the noise complaint), it seems that the women were probably hyper-aware of the potential negative implications to their sorority if they called in LE, hence calling friends first and probably being like, "What do we do?!" Remember, these are 19-20 year olds. They are not always the most rational thinkers, especially if they found a dead body in their home. This is not a scenario/reality that any of them ever would have imagined they'd have to go through.

Edit - and I just read @SteveP 's thoughts and totally agree that they would have been massively traumatized by whatever they saw. And that also helps explain why they didn't do what most people think would be the 'rational' thing to do in that situation!

All of this is obviously just my opinion.

 

[AngTxGal]

I don't get it.
How can a former prosecutor, Shanon Grey, not know why this could take longer than 5 weeks?

and on what is he basing this claim that the leadership is inadequate and needs to be changed? He says ' Im not sure they're capable of handling a quadruple murder.... if they are in over their heads... turn this over to somebody more versed in handling this type of matter'

why say all that on NBC news if you're ' not sure' and you're just speculating ?

He's already met with the lead investigator from MPD and the joint leader from ISP ( he said so in his last interview. he didn't mention meeting w the lead from FBI, as expected)


edited to add:
If he has something specific ( other than MPD's poor comms) he should just come out & say it instead of fooling around

this kind of talk will not help frustration levels of Steve Goncalves & family ( nor, potentially the other families)

Does he have Political aspirations?

 

[Emerald1328]

When I first learned that two roommates were at home, and survived the killings, I, like most, was shocked. Then when I heard that they did not report the crimes until just before noon, I assumed that they had just woken up, which I think would not be uncommon at all, for college kids on weekends when they could sleep in. Whatever they actually may have seen before summoning friends to the house is unknown to us, but I am willing to cut them some slack as to why they summoned the friends before 9-1-1 was called. It is likely that the friends were close enough by that they could get there in just a moment, and the girls were very likely traumatized, especially if they saw one of their roommates, "unconscious" on the floor.

I personally think the girls saw more than just an "unconscious" roommate, and they knew it. I think they were absolutely terrified, and in shock, and as a 60-something-year-old, I might think I would have reacted differently, but as a 20ish college kid, suddenly aware something horrific has happened in the home I shared with good friends, I am not certain that any of us would have been thinking more logically.

The surviving roommates are victims, as well, and I do not find anything "sketchy" about their actions. JMO

Bravo. A “like” wasn’t adequate enough for this.

 

[CSIDreamer]

I don't get it.
How can a former prosecutor, Shanon Grey, not know why this could take longer than 5 weeks?

and on what is he basing this claim that the leadership is inadequate and needs to be changed? He says ' Im not sure they're capable of handling a quadruple murder.... if they are in over their heads... turn this over to somebody more versed in handling this type of matter'

why say all that on NBC news if you're ' not sure' and you're just speculating ?

He's already met with the lead investigator from MPD and the joint leader from ISP ( he said so in his last interview. he didn't mention meeting w the lead from FBI, as expected)


edited to add:
If he has something specific ( other than MPD's poor comms) he should just come out & say it instead of fooling around. ( Or at that juncture why doesn't an interviewing reporter reply wtte put up or shut-up Shannon? or ' specifically what do you mean Mr Grey?)

this kind of talk will not help frustration levels of Steve Goncalves & family ( nor, potentially the other families)

Sounds like somebody isn't willing to jump through his hoops. JMO

 

[warbuckle]

No, no, and no.

Why does this theory persist? If any of those were true, the roommates would not have "believed one of the second-floor victims had passed out and was not waking up."

I cannot imagine a single scenario where the roommates saw the victims' bodies and mistakenly concluded that they were passed out.

Only thing I think happened is roommates knocked on their doors or called them and knew they were not responding. They knew their cars were there so they got creeped out. I think both doors to both rooms were definitely shut and maybe even locked. They went and got friends because they knew something was off but also didn’t want to be overly dramatic if it was nothing big. I’m sure the last thing going through their heads were that all their roommates were stabbed to death.

 

[Emerald1328]

I may be totally wrong, but my feeling has alway been that LE used extremely vague and soft language to describe the 911 call (i.e., that they saw a person passed out) to shield the public from what the roommates actually saw (which is most likely a ton of blood and at least one murdered body). LE have kept so much of the info close to the chest, so why would they go into graphic detail about what the roommates saw? I feel like they are shielding the public from the gory details of what actually happened with that call because it might give more info than they actually want the public to know. Does anyone else feel this way?

With regard to the roommates calling in friends before LE, let's remember that these women are in the Greek system. I was in a sorority in college and due to Greek houses being put on probation or having their charter revoked (kicked off campus) we were conditioned to be massively hesitant to ever call LE about anything. While I was in college, I knew multiple men who died in fraternity houses from alcohol overdoses because the fraternities were so afraid to call LE or take someone to the hospital for fear that they would get their fraternity kicked off campus. I once broke my foot while drunk (age 19) and before anyone would take me to the hospital, I had to remove any clothing that had my sorority's letters on it and they made me wait a few hours at our sorority house so that I could try to sober up. They were nervous for me to even give my home address (which the hospital would know was a sorority house) when I finally went in. Fear of LE and trying to cover up anything that could put your sorority/fraternity in jeopardy is deeply embedded in the Greek culture and mindset. In this Idaho situation, with LE being at their house previously (the noise complaint), it seems that the women were probably hyper-aware of the potential negative implications to their sorority if they called in LE, hence calling friends first and probably being like, "What do we do?!" Remember, these are 19-20 year olds. They are not always the most rational thinkers, especially if they found a dead body in their home. This is not a scenario/reality that any of them ever would have imagined they'd have to go through.

All of this is obviously just my opinion.

And the surviving roommates were in the same sorority as Maddie and Xana which was already on probation before the murders.

 

[cottonweaver]

Does he have Political aspirations?

Hadn't thought of that.
Sounds like he wants to make a name for himself.