ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 35

[al66pine]

Post Mortem Odors?
[QUOTE="BondGirl007, post: 17987812, member: 228624" ....
9 hours after the murders there is going to be a smell.
[/QUOTE] snipped for focus @BondGirl007

Agreed, in a home w four stabbing deaths, 9 hours post mortem, very likely there will be odors there.

Maybe victims's lack of control of bodily functions at death?

Not sure if blood would be the predominate odor, IDK.

 

[Strong1]

Respectfully, I don’t understand how the killer wouldn’t know there was a ground floor or that there were rooms on that floor. The first floor has the front door; I’ve never seen a house with a front entrance that is a kitchen sliding door. To get to Xana’s room I believe you have to walk past the stairs going downstairs. And I’m not sure how the perp would get into the locked rooms if his choice of weapon was a knife.
Also, if you watched the noise complaint body cam footage, the curtains on one of the rooms were sort of sheer, it was very easy to see into that room - which sort of creeped me out.

MOO

I believe they knew the house layout. It could be as simple as their target was on the 2nd or 3rd floor. If this was the case the most direct route to these floors was thru the slider. The first floor entrance was risky because the roommates were sleeping there. So in order to alleviate that risk the 2nd floor slider was used. As far as I am aware there was no info that the rooms were locked, only that they had locks on them.

 

[LynnWhite]

Also, not to be insensitive or graphic, IMO there are also other bodily functions that emit odors at a time of violent death.

I’ve been unfortunately thinking that same thing, but didn’t want to say it. IMO it’s not the smell of blood that would have alerted the other residents, I believe that would have been very mild compared to the rest of it (I’ll follow your lead of respectfully not going into detail). Especially given that these were knife injuries, so you have the added likelihood of cutting into bowel. Unpleasant, but I think any hunter is probably thinking/aware of the same thing. Not sure if that’s helpful, but I’ve seen the idea of the other two residents smelling the blood come up quite a few times, and think unfortunately that’s likely missing the very sad reality of it all.

 

[TooMuchGun]

I understand that's the basics, and typically what is assumed first, but LE has essentially ruled out everyone in their immediate and peripheral circles. Likewise, if it was anyone in their close circle or any tangential connections, the car owner would be pretty easily found. They probably wouldn't even have had to ask for the public's help in that regard.

My opinion.

we need the Elantra or a tip to jump start this case. The tip w the critical info maybe in queue and just waiting for someone to follow up. moo

 

[scottr]

edited to add: I see this theory was already posted….sorry for the repeat. Can’t figure out how to delete The entire post.


A theory I read that made sense to me was that one of the roommates from downstairs, phone in hand, walked up the steps to go to the kitchen. She saw a brutal, horrible scene and ran out of the house screaming. She was hysterical and unable to verbalize what she’d witnessed. She was hyperventilating and passed out, at which point someone (other room mate? Someone out that morning?) grabbed her phone and dialed 911 for her as she was unconscious, then called friends who lived close by. No one yet knew the carnage except the roommate who had passed out. Before anyone from EMS can get there, others walk in to see what had her so hysterical and discover E and X.

The theory has merit, but I suppose unless the 911 call is released, we won’t know for sure. Every report says something different.

Similar to what I thought. LE said the 911 call was from one of the roommates phone, was made from inside the house, and the person staying to the dispatcher was not one of the roommates. It could be that a friend came to the house to casually visit one of the two surviving roommates, is let in by one of those roommates, then one of the roommates goes to the second floor at some point for one reason or another. If that roommate comes across an unexplainable trail of blood, I would imagine panic and an immediate call to 911. I would also think that they would quickly try to return to a safe place or to the first floor the visiting friend. They could have easily become overwhelmed by the circumstances and passed out while trying to call 911, trying to protect themselves, and probably trying to explain to the visiting friend all at the same time. They pass out while on the phone and the friend takes over to report the roommate passed out while acting frantically. All this is obviously speculation.

It goes to show you that none of us know really anything and can't make much sense of the details released by LE.

The only thing we really know is that the dark shadows in our homes look much different today then they did before following this case.

 

[Cindizzi]

That's interesting, I believe that I heard that in Stephanie Harlowe's video covering the case. Also, I believe that one of the people that the surviving roommates called said that someone had fainted. I'll have to look more into this and see if I can find where this originally came from.

November 19 press release by MPD stated that the 911 call came from one of the survivors phones, but WHO made the call has not been released.

Dispatch logged the call as “ unconscious person “.

Anything about what the survivors saw or told dispatch is purely speculation or conjecture IMO unless LE releases more information.

It seems perfectly normal for us to speculate on this baffling situation, but I hate that some “ theories “ have grown legs and some folks are taking it as fact that the survivors saw something, heard something etc and concluding that they “ should have “ witnessed a bloody scene. Or that it means that one of the deceased must have been laying in sight.

Just my opinion, but I don’t think the 911 caller(s) actually spoke the words “ my roommate is unconscious “. I think dispatch logged it as such because they were told that people in the house were not answering texts or calls , knocking on doors and yelling went unanswered, their cars were home and it was Noon.

And by saying some folks taking speculation as fact, I do Not mean you!

I’m looking forward to the day when we see an arrest affidavit that explains the 911 call.

JMO

https://www.ci.moscow.id.us/DocumentCenter/View/24741/11-19-22-Moscow-Homicide-Update?bidId=

 

[rahod1]

I am leaning towards him not knowing the surviving girls on the first fooor were even there. Because the first floor looks detached from the 2nd and 3rd floor from the outside. Also the first floor from the outside looks like it could be a basement where you do laundry and stuff. Furthermore, I don’t think the killer and or killers wanted to leave any living witnesses. I feel if he knew someone was there on first floor he would have got in there someway somehow regardless if door was locked or not. JMO

They weren't witnesses...since they remained in their rooms. Why risk breaking down locked doors (MOO) alerting them (and risking a call to LE) opening up a Pandora's Box?

 

[AngTxGal]

When you move states, should you change the plate on the car to match your new state of residence?

I'm not from the USA, my apologies.

Not if you are a college student and the car is registered in your parents’ name in another state. You may change your residence on your driver’s license but not your car registration unless the car and insurance are in your name and you plan to stay at the same residence for several years.

JMO

 

[NCTeacher]

Let me offer you another plausible theory. It was not about killing four people or everyone in the house. It was all about killing one person and person 2, 3 and 4 were just between the killer and his exit and the intended victim. Or that the person was trying to kill one person and they were not home and all four were just between the killer and where he thought his intended target was.

I really think this is it ^^^^^^^ I think the killer had one person (or two) in mind that night. I think whoever was killed in their beds was/were the target and likely the first killed--and based on the obits, I'm confident I know who these were. Then as the killer tried to leave, he encountered two more people--perhaps they heard commotion, perhaps they were up to go to the bathroom, perhaps they were up to get something to eat... Those two people are the ones who likely had defensive wounds because they were up and alert.

I'm very curious about the dog in all this. And I'm very concerned about the rapid fire phone calls in the late 2 o'clock hour.

 

[fridaybaker]

My guess is that there was plenty of vomit, urine smells occurred in an undergrad party house. Blood can be very subtle. Seems a bit early for decomposition.
I think no rational person would immediately jump to conclusion a mass murder had taken place if they were just looking at a locked door, and knocks not being answered.
We are looking at this from retrospect. We know four people were killed. The surviving roommates may have had little to no clues anything violent had occurred. On top of that we all often reject clues pointing outcomes we would prefer not to be reality.

Yes! It’s called “normalcy bias”. Most of us have it, some more than others.

In the case of a situation like this, where you come upon something so horrific, I think it happens as a sort of self-preservation.

 

[Kittycat40]

They weren't witnesses...since they remained in their rooms. Why risk breaking down locked doors (MOO) alerting them (and risking a call to LE) opening up a Pandora's Box?

Do you know for sure that the room doors were locked on the first floor? For all we know the doors could have been unlocked. Also the video I linked shows how easy it is to unlock a locked bedroom door. Leaving survivors on the 1 st floor does leave witnesses. Even if the witnesses stayed in their rooms during the murder. It left open the possibility that they could see the killer or killers or the car they were in from their front windows and they could possibly hear something.

I understand the roommates didn’t seem to hear or see anything. However, the killer and or killers had no way of knowing for sure that these girls on the 1st floor didn’t hear something or see something out their front windows on the morning of the murders. Which is why I feel strongly that had the killer and or killers known that their were girls on the 1st floor than he would have killed them as well to eliminate risk.

Why risk killing on the 3rd if you can just kill those on the 2nd floor and immediately leave and come back out through the sliding glass door on the 2nd. If he’s going to risk going to the 3rd floor even if it’s for his target than why not go down to the 1st since you took care of 2nd and 3rd floor.

JMO

 

[drmrgrl]

I haven't found any MSM articles that address dissent between the third-floor victims; however, sorting through the SM of both victims and viewing the recently released video, I have some thoughts regarding how that relationship may have been evolving. All may not have been as rosy as it once was. MOO.

Or maybe the relationship got rosier and somebody else didn’t like it.IMO

 

[knuterocknes]

November 19 press release by MPD stated that the 911 call came from one of the survivors phones, but WHO made the call has not been released.

Dispatch logged the call as “ unconscious person “.

Anything about what the survivors saw or told dispatch is purely speculation or conjecture IMO unless LE releases more information.

It seems perfectly normal for us to speculate on this baffling situation, but I hate that some “ theories “ have grown legs and some folks are taking it as fact that the survivors saw something, heard something etc and concluding that they “ should have “ witnessed a bloody scene. Or that it means that one of the deceased must have been laying in sight.

Just my opinion, but I don’t think the 911 caller(s) actually spoke the words “ my roommate is unconscious “. I think dispatch logged it as such because they were told that people in the house were not answering texts or calls , knocking on doors and yelling went unanswered, their cars were home and it was Noon.

And by saying some folks taking speculation as fact, I do Not mean you!

I’m looking forward to the day when we see an arrest affidavit that explains the 911 call.

JMO

View attachment 389192

https://www.ci.moscow.id.us/DocumentCenter/View/24741/11-19-22-Moscow-Homicide-Update?bidId=

I was just under the impression that this was confirmed because I had heard it so many times! It's super frustrating because I take the facts of the case so seriously, so seeing something that so many people believe to be true to be unconfirmed is frustrating. Also, I think I really fell for the theory because it just seemed so plausible. After all, if I walked onto a crime scene I wouldn't describe my friend as unconscious, especially after learning everything we know about the scene.

 

[EmmieA]

I believe they knew the house layout. It could be as simple as their target was on the 2nd or 3rd floor. If this was the case the most direct route to these floors was thru the slider. The first floor entrance was risky because the roommates were sleeping there. So in order to alleviate that risk the 2nd floor slider was used. As far as I am aware there was no info that the rooms were locked, only that they had locks on them.

The post I was replying to theorized that the perp would do whatever they could to get into the rooms even if they were locked. (I don’t agree, considering the rooms probably had coded locks)

MOO

 

[BeccaD]

Let me offer you another plausible theory. It was not about killing four people or everyone in the house. It was all about killing one person and person 2, 3 and 4 were just between the killer and his exit and the intended victim. Or that the person was trying to kill one person and they were not home and all four were just between the killer and where he thought his intended target was.

I agree with this. The intended target was on the third floor. The killer entered and quietly went up to the third floor. Murders Kayley and Maddie in their sleep. After making noises such as bumping around or stomping the noises woke Zanna and Eric. Eric goes to see what's happening and encounters the killer and fights back but the killer kills him. Zanna hearing what is happening to Eric gets up and fights the killer but is also killed. They would both have defensive wounds. The killer didn't care about the roommates downstairs. Probably waited to see if they had woken up or not. The killer exited the house and hurried back through the wooded area behind the house. At that point the camera on top of the apartment complex could have caught him/her escaping. My 19-year-old daughter has slept with earbuds in every night for years. She can't hear a darned thing. All this is JMO.

 

[EmmieA]

I was conflicted with this too at first but after watching several videos of the inside and outside of the house. I feel the killer or killers didn’t know the two roommates were there. I think he more than likely considered it like a basement where you store things and or do laundry.

Also I don’t think all 4 who were murdered were targeted. I think 1 or possibly 2 were targeted but as I mentioned in another post. The killer and or killers weren’t going to leave any living witnesses. Which is why the killer or killers killed all 4. Thinking he wasn’t leaving any witnesses. Not realizing that 2 were on the first floor. JMO


As far as getting into a locked bedroom door. Not hard if you’re like this killer and or killers who could pull off 4 murders in the fashion they did

What if they were code locks? Can those be easily unlocked? The tenant living there in 2019 said he had a code lock on his 1st floor bedroom. I always assumed those locks were harder to break into.

Idaho murders: Former first floor tenant of Moscow home says he couldn't hear activity from other floors | Fox News

Four students were killed on the second and third floors of the house in November, while two others on the first floor survived

www.foxnews.com

 

[drmrgrl]

No licence plate = No VIN number = no way to trace car

VIN numbers are placed in a vehicle in two different places that I know of IMO

 

[Cindizzi]

I was just under the impression that this was confirmed because I had heard it so many times! It's super frustrating because I take the facts of the case so seriously, so seeing something that so many people believe to be true to be unconfirmed is frustrating. Also, I think I really fell for the theory because it just seemed so plausible. After all, if I walked onto a crime scene I wouldn't describe my friend as unconscious, especially after learning everything we know about the scene.

Just want to add that on November 20 LE did add some more details about the 911 call :

There were additional people other than the two surviving roommates inside the house where four University of Idaho students were found stabbed to death at the time the 911 call was made, police revealed Sunday. According to Moscow Police Chief James Fry, the 911 call was made using one of those roommates' phones, but he would not confirm the caller's identity.

Police said Sunday they do not believe any of the people who were at the home when the 911 call was made are the killer. A week after the murders, police still have no suspect.

Fry on Sunday said police are not sure exactly how many people were in the home when the 911 call was placed, but that there were "other friends that had arrived at the location" present. He did not specify when they arrived.

Following the press conference, Moscow police said in a statement on Facebook that "the surviving roommates summoned friends to the residence" because they thought one of the victims had passed out and wasn't waking up. Several people spoke to the 911 dispatcher, police wrote.

Idaho college murders: "Other friends" were in the house when 911 call was made, police say

Police said the 911 call was made from one of the surviving roommates' phones, but would not confirm the identity of the caller.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[Kittycat40]

What if they were code locks? Can those be easily unlocked? The tenant living there in 2019 said he had a code lock on his 1st floor bedroom. I always assumed those locks were harder to break into.

Idaho murders: Former first floor tenant of Moscow home says he couldn't hear activity from other floors | Fox News

Four students were killed on the second and third floors of the house in November, while two others on the first floor survived

www.foxnews.com

Also the house was known as a party house I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of people didn’t know the code.

 

[NuttMegg]

I really think this is it ^^^^^^^ I think the killer had one person (or two) in mind that night. I think whoever was killed in their beds was/were the target and likely the first killed--and based on the obits, I'm confident I know who these were. Then as the killer tried to leave, he encountered two more people--perhaps they heard commotion, perhaps they were up to go to the bathroom, perhaps they were up to get something to eat... Those two people are the ones who likely had defensive wounds because they were up and alert.

I'm very curious about the dog in all this. And I'm very concerned about the rapid fire phone calls in the late 2 o'clock hour.

That's the only logical explanation, imo. Being a couple, the kids on the second floor would have had their door locked. It's quite probable, imo, that this murder had one target victim, with the other 3 a result of the girls sharing a room, probably with open door to come and go from the bathroom. Then while going back down, he encounters EC who heard something, and X also had to be killed. I doubt that he even cared whether or not there were two more people downstairs. By that time he had to get out quickly. Whole thing = 5-8 minutes, with the 2 on the second floor requiring the most time. Killer may have shoved EC back into the bedroom.