ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 35

[10ofRods]

Yes, it does seem as if they were familiar with the layout and occupancy in general. However, IMO they had given it some thought by way of a plan and subsequent escape. Clearly, they did not wish to be caught. Mass murderers, historically, do not care about getting caught. There sole mission is to kill as many people as they can. They accept, possibly welcome, their own demise. The serial killer is a different animal, quite literally. Am I saying that this killer has killed before? Not necessarily, but definitely has likely burglarized, victimized others in some way, and has experience creating a persona that is a facade.

Which is why this case is so mesmerizing to those of us with an interest in crime (or a job related to studying it).

This crime looks like a mass murder (in terms of victimology) but you are correct that most mass murderers anticipate their own demise and even plan it into the crime if possible.

Serial killers usually try very hard not to get caught.

I've been saying that in many respects, this resembles a family annihilation case, due to the closeness of the various victims and the fact that one theory is that the killer is somehow close to at least some of the victims. So a Chris Watts kind of killer. The only reason I make that comparison is that Watts had no reason to kill his children, even if he was filled with rage at his wife. It never makes sense, though, when people do these kinds of crimes. One home invader/killer in a crime near where I live had watched the house briefly, had looked at a few other houses, found one that had more windows and was easier to watch. He then came into the house and killed a married couple (wife was pregnant, so he was charged with three murders) but did not kill the children. In fact, he sent the kids to another part of the house while he killed their parents (IIRC). He was a drifter and his primary goal was robbery (he took money from the adults and made them find their valuables). He just didn't want to be recognized. He's in prison now.

In the case I just mentioned, the perp had been a burglar and a robber, but this was (as far as the courts/LE are concerned) his first set of murders.

 

[OrangeRhyme]

I just think it's too risky to be planned.
All it required was somebody waking and phoning 911 or running from the house. Or the dog barking. Or someone fighting back.

If I was planning this, all these doubts would creep in to my mind and I wouldn't go through with it. I'd target an easier victim.

But somebody filled with rage and maybe alcohol would just do it regardless.
Rage impairs judgement.

Its obvious the perp didn't want to be caught unlike spree killers who often commit suicide.

So if you don't want to be caught, why choose a target with a high probability of being caught?
So it must've been personal and also unplanned.
That's my logic.

 

[drmrgrl]

I don't think it was a student. Not even one who is not presently a student, ie enrolled in the past.

IMO, the killer is someone who wants to keep a low profile, therefore it is likely we will not have heard his name.

 

[ForensicToxicologist]

I just found it interesting that he chose to say “maybe there’s a car that isn’t there…” That sounds so specific to me. Like wouldn’t it be much more natural if just giving a random example to say “maybe there’s a car that’s there” rather than that ISN’T there?

I think he was trying to point out both sides of the story. People focus on what’s seen/said, but often the clue is in what isn’t. It’d be easy to look through your photos and say “no white Elantra/other people visible so I won’t submit” when in fact that in itself would be a clue to LE that you’re unaware of.

 

[layer]

But somebody filled with rage and maybe alcohol would just do it regardless.
Rage impairs judgement.

But likewise, judgement, impaired by rage, would lead one to believe this is an easy case to solve. When I am seeing red, spitting-nails pissed, I can't even think straight. Add alcohol to the mix and this would have to be one of the sloppiest crime scenes ever, with ample evidence of the perp easily gathered.

Yet here we are, going on six weeks without even a named suspect.

 

[OrangeRhyme]

But likewise, judgement, impaired by rage, would lead one to believe this is an easy case to solve. When I am seeing red, spitting-nails pissed, I can't even think straight. Add alcohol to the mix and this would have to be one of the sloppiest crime scenes ever, with ample evidence of the perp easily gathered.

Yet here we are, going on six weeks without even a named suspect.

Its possible to be rage filled but leave no evidence.
If he wore gloves then no DNA. If the victims didn't fight back, no DNA under fingernails.
Nobody woke so no witnesses.
Didn't bring phone with him, or turned it off before.
Nobody saw him leave or enter the house.

The White Elantra is obviously critical but small chance it's a red herring

 

[drmrgrl]

Yep. That's it. 100% agreed. This is my theory also. See you guys if/when we ever get more info from LE. Ciao!

Very well stated sequence of events

 

[drmrgrl]

Attacked while they were asleep but woke up and managed to get out of bed to defend themselves but succumbed to their injuries elsewhere?

No. IMO, I-think Ethan probably fell out of the bed and was wedged between the bed frame and the wall and bled out resulting in the blood drips seen on the outside of the house

 

[SMK777]

Yep. That's it. 100% agreed. This is my theory also. See you guys if/when we ever get more info from LE. Ciao!

Makes a lot of sense, but did he trail blood outside when he beat a hasty retreat?

 

[drmrgrl]

LE are investigating a quadruple murder case, not filming a tv show, where ratings determine their success. Respectfully, they don't have time to worry about how we, the uninformed public, the majority of whom probably do not even live in their state, much less their community, would judge their performance. Also, whether they know "why" or not is ultimately of little importance, as motive does not have to be proven, but I am confident that they will learn "who", if they have not already, and will bring the killer to justice. And again, LE ALWAYS know a lot more than they tell, while an investigation is ongoing. They are going to try their case in a court of law, not in the court of public opinion. JMO

IMO Agreed and well said. I have the utmost faith in LE and would be willing to bet that they already know who did it, how they did it and why they did it, but are keeping that info discreet.

 

[al66pine]

Did Surviving Roomates Call 911? Did One or Both Talk w 911?

Sorry, lost track of post stating surviving roomies told 911 this or that. But per Moscow LE:
" ... 911 call ... made from surviving roommates’ cell phones... Multiple people talked with the 911 dispatcher..." sbm

Does NOT state that roomies called 911, states call was made from one of their cells.

Does NOT state that roomies spoke w 911 but allows for that possibility.

Let's all read carefully then re-read verrrrrrry carefully before posting general impressions stated as facts.

______________________________________________
^^^ from Moscow LE Press Release dtd Dec. 6, page 2.
"On November 13th, the surviving roommates summoned friends to the residence because they believed one of the second-floor victims had passed out and was not waking up. At 11:58 a.m., a 911 call requested aid for an unconscious person. The call was made from one of the surviving roommates’ cell phones inside the residence. Multiple people talked with the 911 dispatcher before Moscow Police arrived at the location."
https://www.ci.moscow.id.us/DocumentCenter/View/24891/12-06-22-Moscow-Homicide-Update

 

[drmrgrl]

This is pretty precise:
Banfield: Can you tell me, when you said that they might have been sleeping, were they found in beds?
Mabbutt: Uhm, yes.

Source

We are arguing about semantics IMO

 

[blackbeary]

Which is why this case is so mesmerizing to those of us with an interest in crime (or a job related to studying it).

This crime looks like a mass murder (in terms of victimology) but you are correct that most mass murderers anticipate their own demise and even plan it into the crime if possible.

Serial killers usually try very hard not to get caught.

I've been saying that in many respects, this resembles a family annihilation case, due to the closeness of the various victims and the fact that one theory is that the killer is somehow close to at least some of the victims. So a Chris Watts kind of killer. The only reason I make that comparison is that Watts had no reason to kill his children, even if he was filled with rage at his wife. It never makes sense, though, when people do these kinds of crimes. One home invader/killer in a crime near where I live had watched the house briefly, had looked at a few other houses, found one that had more windows and was easier to watch. He then came into the house and killed a married couple (wife was pregnant, so he was charged with three murders) but did not kill the children. In fact, he sent the kids to another part of the house while he killed their parents (IIRC). He was a drifter and his primary goal was robbery (he took money from the adults and made them find their valuables). He just didn't want to be recognized. He's in prison now.

In the case I just mentioned, the perp had been a burglar and a robber, but this was (as far as the courts/LE are concerned) his first set of murders.

Thank You for this Do you feel that he has harmed animal's, as most sadistic killer's do? No empathy.

 

[scottishgal]

Killing 4 makes this person eligible for the death penalty no? I believe that, and/or shame will keep from coming forward on their own. They will be hated by many no doubt. Just IMO.

does Idaho have the death Penalty. what if it was manslaughter not premeditated.

 

[drmrgrl]

Maybe to prevent them from being hunted down by MSM?

IMO, one of the callers was related to a victim

 

[B4igo2it]

IMHO, this is a targeted attack against the students and the perpetrator(s) familiar with the layout of the home for access to and from the home, leading me to believe had been there before. I suspect the task was quickly completed; leads me to think more than one person responsible. My heart goes out to the victim families; it will be a sad Christmas holiday for them.

 

[Dysfunkshun]

True crime junkies flock to Idaho murder house

The Idaho home where four students were murdered has become an attraction, with one woman saying she visited after hearing about the case on a podcast.

www.dailymail.co.uk

I knew this was coming.

 

[scottishgal]

This killing being in a college environment reminds one of Ted B's sorority rampage.

Ted Bundy stated this as his motive / reason - Too much Prnography in his youth and the content being violent in nature, in the interview he did day/s before , his message was future him's can be prevented by controlling the amount of such content made available to the impressionable public.
What many surmised was Ted's reason - All speculation only - that his Gfather was violent - some speculated his mother was impregnated by him and TB hence born. If this were true, then a child growing up in a completely unethical, ruthless, abusive , violent environment - grows up with no empathy (as they were shown none growing up in a way, or demonstrated none). Also rage - that all this happened and was out of his control. As a child, he perhaps spent hours alone , and perhaps (it is speculated) harmed small animals to start with. He seems to have had an interest in preserving his victim's remains and this was a large part of it for him.
while I partly agree with experts online, profiling our sus here , with the same lack of empathy - not all the traits of TB seem to resonate here , 'our' sus I think is different at least partly so.
What continues to this day , to amaze me about TB was -
1. He had a regular gf and her daughter as family whom he never was violent to
2. He defended his mother and her upbringing to his dying day saying he had a normal happy childhood.
Compartmentalisation much ?

 

[Glumlibrarian]

does Idaho have the death Penalty. what if it was manslaughter not premediated.

Yes, Idaho has the death penalty

 

[layer]

I'm not trying to be rude here. I'm a little mystified by some of these discussions: in bed vs out of bed, asleep vs awake, fought like hell vs simple defensive wounds, who made the 911 call, why unconscious, where was Murphy... Do these details matter when it comes to solving this crime?

LE knows all these details for sure, and it hasn't led to naming a suspect, yet. I guess it gives us something to talk about while we wait.

Carry on!