ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 35

[Justice101]

This has been my thought from the early days of the investigation. K and or M were the target(s) and killer knew the layout of the house and where they were within it.

• Killer enters through the sliding glass door on the second floor
• Proceeds immediately to the little annex stairs to the third floor
• Highly suspect killer was watching the house in the hour(s) preceding the murders and saw the third floor light on which you could easily see from multiple hidden vantage points given the layout of the neighborhood and woods that surrounds the house. Once the third floor light went out, which was likely shortly after K & M's final calls to JD, killer waits 15-30 minutes so they are asleep then makes his move
• Catches K & M by surprise - in their slightly intoxicated state I believe they were in and having been exhausted from being out all night they are cornered and have no chance
• Killer violently stabs both until they stop moving - may be planning on leaving but hears E and or X get stirred by the noise
• Strongly suspect E exits the bedroom to see what's up and encounters killer. Catches him by surprise and gets several deep stabs in which incapacitated him
• Killer hears X in the bedroom still. It's pitch black & she doesn't know what's happening so she sits up in bed but sees killer moving at her fast
• X knows something is very wrong but is attacked before she can get out of the way and/or reach her phone. She's more fully awake which is why her father reported she had strong defensive wounds
• Killer is facing a petite girl caught by surprise in the back corner of a bedroom and while she puts up a fight, she is quickly overpowered and incapacitated

Killer makes sure both E & X are dead or will be soon and leaves the same away he entered. Perhaps the encounter with E & X spooked him to just get out of there ASAP. Maybe he knew the two others were downstairs, maybe he didn't, but at that point he realizes he's making a ton of noise and commotion and panics and bolts out.

All MOO of course.

That is entirely plausible and makes sense. Well done as far a working theory is concerned!

Do you have a guess on if it was a person with perhaps 1, 2 or 3 degrees of separation to the intended target? Or was it a random person who spotted this situation, cased the apartments, etc.?

 

[drmrgrl]

Look what her "assumptions" did to the father. He was not buying this "they did not suffer".

"Steven Goncalves said he asked the coroner, Cathy Mabbutt, how many times the victims were stabbed.

"She says, sir, I don't think stabs is the right word, it was like tears, like this was a strong weapon, not like a stab," he told Fox News Digital Sunday. "


"Although the coroner told Goncalves that the victims died quickly and did not suffer, he said he's not convinced."

Idaho murders: Father of slain victim says she had 'big open wounds,' calls police 'cowards'

Slain Idaho college student Kaylee Goncalves' father exclusively told Fox News Digital that the victims had "big open gouges" that were made by a "sadistic male."

www.foxnews.com

Here’s the thing IMO, the Coroner didn’t not perform the autopsy, the ME or FP did. Although Mabbutt was probably briefed on what went down, she is not an “expert” The media needs to interview a better subset of people involved in the case to get a better gauge of what went down.

 

[Justice101]

I'm not trying to be rude here. I'm a little mystified by some of these discussions: in bed vs out of bed, asleep vs awake, fought like hell vs simple defensive wounds, who made the 911 call, why unconscious, where was Murphy... Do these details matter when it comes to solving this crime?

LE knows all these details for sure, and it hasn't led to naming a suspect, yet. I guess it gives us something to talk about while we wait.

Carry on!

Exactly.

But people (like myself) come back on here to see if there is a POI, etc or some sniff that they are closer to solving the case.

I think everyone on here wants the police to solve the case. Just buying time reading and posting on theories until something real definitive comes out of the investigation and we hear about it.

 

[wary]

does Idaho have the death Penalty. what if it was manslaughter not premeditated.

I’d say that there’s no chance that it’s not premeditated. Remember that ‘premeditated’ is not the same as ‘preplanned long in advance.’

What Is Premeditated and Deliberate Conduct?

Learn about the criminal concepts of premeditation and deliberation as elements of intent.

www.nolo.com

MOO

 

[Down To Earth]

True crime junkies flock to Idaho murder house

The Idaho home where four students were murdered has become an attraction, with one woman saying she visited after hearing about the case on a podcast.

www.dailymail.co.uk

I knew this was coming.

Ugh. Head over to the merch booth to buy your Ka-Bar knife and white hoodie. Get your photo taken by the dripping wall. All sponsored by Hyundai. (Sarcasm of course)

This is just gut wrenching for the families, friends, LE and those with personal ties to these victims and the community in Moscow. If you are one of those who have been affected, nothing but sincere love and empathy now and always. May the good people of the world surround you and serve to protect you as you grieve your beloved loss.

 

[Nila Aella]

As far as motive: IMO, they were permanently “silenced”? I can’t think of any other motive.

I agree with this as a possible motive. Scenario: One pair witnessed something that night and because they came home and interacted with the other pair before retiring, there was a possibility that they shared what they witnessed. All four had to be eliminated before they could tell anyone else. Someone who knew them and knew the layout of the house. MOO

edited grammar

 

[drmrgrl]

Sure, I agree. But that does not warrant use of the word "asleep".

IMO, I think Mabutt was using inference when she answered that question.

 

[Emerald1328]

Re: in bed/not in bed, asleep/not asleep, I’ve posted this twice before and thought I’d post again. The conclusion is just my opinion, but links are included for the actual statements and timeframes:

This all originated when the coroner gave an interview to Ashleigh Banfield with NewsNation on Thursday, 11/17. In that interview she tells Banfield that the victims were found in their beds.

Coroner: Idaho college students were likely sleeping | Banfield

Latah County Coroner Cathy Mabbutt tells #Banfield that the University of Idaho student murder victims were found in bed, and it's likely they were asleep.

www.newsnationnow.com

Then, the next day, Friday, 11/18, the coroner gave an interview to CBS News and said that earlier reports (I.e. her statement to Banfield the day before) stating that all 4 were murdered in their beds was not accurate.

“Of the four University of Idaho students who were found stabbed to death in a rental house last Sunday, some were killed in their beds, the Latah County coroner told CBS News Friday.

Coroner Cathy Mabbutt would not provide any further details. She noted, however, that earlier media reports stating all four victims had been murdered in their beds were not accurate.”

Some of the murdered University of Idaho students were stabbed in their beds, coroner says

According to police, the coroner said all four victims were likely asleep, some had defensive wounds and each was stabbed multiple times.

www.cbsnews.com

I think both are true. I think all four were sleeping in a bed during the initial attack (or at least for the first stab wound) and one/some/all either fell off the bed or were able to get off the bed and move (crawl or walk) for a distance before they passed away. it’s also possible that when they say “attacked”, that means when the first person in bed was stabbed and not each specific person, and their bedmate woke up and was able to get off the bed before the killer came for him/her. IMO, the combined statements don’t imply that someone came out to check on a noise and was attacked head-on.

 

[Hexe]

Here’s the thing IMO, the Coroner didn’t not perform the autopsy, the ME or FP did. Although Mabbutt was probably briefed on what went down, she is not an “expert” The media needs to interview a better subset of people involved in the case to get a better gauge of what went down.

In Idaho coroner is the one who ddetermines the cause and the manner of the death. In order to do it officially Mabbutt had to read the autopsy report and also had to be on the scene to pronounce the victims dead. So... I do not think that Mabbutt should be blamed for discrepancies in Steve Goncalves's interviews. Also, we should remember Mr. Goncalves is a grieving father so we should not expect a surgical precision of description from him.

 

[drmrgrl]

The coroner is an elected position, correct?

Yes.

 

[Tortoise]

Were any of their phones missing?

 

[Hexe]

Coroner Cathy Mabbutt would not provide any further details. She noted, however, that earlier media reports stating all four victims had been murdered in their beds were not accurate.”

Some of the murdered University of Idaho students were stabbed in their beds, coroner says

According to police, the coroner said all four victims were likely asleep, some had defensive wounds and each was stabbed multiple times.

www.cbsnews.com

I think both are true. I think all four were sleeping in a bed during the initial attack (or at least for the first stab wound) and one/some/all either fell off the bed or were able to get off the bed and move (crawl or walk) for a distance before they passed away. it’s also possible that when they say “attacked”, that means when the first person in bed was stabbed and not each specific person, and their bedmate woke up and was able to get off the bed before the killer came for him/her. IMO, the combined statements don’t imply that someone came out to check on a noise and was attacked head-on.

Well, we know two of the victims were not sleeping in THEIR OWN beds. Ethan was sleeping with Xana, in her bed and Kaylee was in Madison's bed. So it is entirely possible all four victims were found in beds, just not all of them were in THEIR beds.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

ashhouston said:
its a stranger homicide or they'd have someone. No way after 4 people get slaughtered and so much public attention they're going to wait to arrest. im leaning to stranger only because the two in the basement didnt get touched so the murder probably didnt know that they were down there probably a creepy neighbor or someone in the neighborhood that they didnt know

I'm with you on this one. If the perp is ever caught, I feel 100% when his name is released, it will be someone the internet has never heard of in this case.

I disagree. In the Rhoden massacre 04-21-2016 it was 8 victims of one family in 4 different houses. Cited as the biggest murder case in Ohio. Worldwide coverage. It took two and a half years to make an arrest. When they finally did make an arrest it was the ex boyfriend of one of the victims and his family. He pled guilty as did his mother. His brothers trial just ended in a guilty verdict 6 1/2 years after the murders with his fathers trial coming up early 2023, putting it at almost 7 years after the murders occurred.

So don't get blinded by the headlights. I said then about that case and will say now about this one, one of the victims was connected to the evil that occurred in that house. When the arrest is made it will be someone closely connected to one or more of the victims.

I believe it was someone who returned home with E&X and was partying with E&X when K&M returned home and was intended to crash on the couch for the night. Due to some altercation earlier, perhaps with E they waited until they were all asleep. K&M were killed because they saw/talked to him after they returned home and were witnesses. The 1st floor girls were already asleep so therefore were not witnesses so did not need to be killed.

Someone questioned why a friend would be partying with a hunting knife in his possession, but may I point out there are many young people who hunt in Idaho and carry hunting knives on their person. There are also many others who have extensive knife collections. It is entirely possible the perpetrator went home to get one of those knives he collected.

MY OPINION ONLY
JMO

 

[drmrgrl]

In Idaho coroner is the one who ddetermines the cause and the manner of the death. In order to do it officially Mabbutt had to read the autopsy report and also had to be on the scene to pronounce the victims dead. So... I do not think that Mabbutt should be blamed for discrepancies in Steve Goncalves's interviews. Also, we should remember Mr. Goncalves is a grieving father so we should not expect a surgical precision of description from him.

I am not blaming her at all. I think everyone involved in the case is doing a fine job. I don’t care for arguing about semantics.

 

[Which_pancake]

I’d say that there’s no chance that it’s not premeditated. Remember that ‘premeditated’ is not the same as ‘preplanned long in advance.’

What Is Premeditated and Deliberate Conduct?

Learn about the criminal concepts of premeditation and deliberation as elements of intent.

www.nolo.com

MOO

At the very least it would be hard to argue that the act of walking upstairs to a different room is not premeditation, IMO

 

[RatFace]

The official police statement says that all four were likely attacked while they slept.

https://www.ci.moscow.id.us/DocumentCenter/View/24891/12-06-22-Moscow-Homicide-Update

The attack would have started while they slept but at least 1 of each pair would have had a chance to get out of the bed before they died. They would have been found stabbed to death on the floor.

 

[blackbeary]

This killing being in a college environment reminds one of Ted B's sorority rampage.

Ted Bundy stated this as his motive / reason - Too much Prnography in his youth and the content being violent in nature, in the interview he did day/s before , his message was future him's can be prevented by controlling the amount of such content made available to the impressionable public.
What many surmised was Ted's reason - All speculation only - that his Gfather was violent - some speculated his mother was impregnated by him and TB hence born. If this were true, then a child growing up in a completely unethical, ruthless, abusive , violent environment - grows up with no empathy (as they were shown none growing up in a way, or demonstrated none). Also rage - that all this happened and was out of his control. As a child, he perhaps spent hours alone , and perhaps (it is speculated) harmed small animals to start with. He seems to have had an interest in preserving his victim's remains and this was a large part of it for him.
while I partly agree with experts online, profiling our sus here , with the same lack of empathy - not all the traits of TB seem to resonate here , 'our' sus I think is different at least partly so.
What continues to this day , to amaze me about TB was -
1. He had a regular gf and her daughter as family whom he never was violent to
2. He defended his mother and her upbringing to his dying day saying he had a normal happy childhood.
Compartmentalisation much ?

I've kept away from information on Bundy, BTK and others who tortured their victims, especially when children are involved. It's way too much for me to emotionally handle.
I had 0 idea that he attempted to preserve his victims, as Dahmer did.
Bundy was intelligent, charming, and attractive to some, even worked on a abuse hotline with Ann Rule. In my mind, he's one of the most sneaky and scary types of a wolf in sheep's clothing.

 

[Stephen2022]

It seems to me that most likely the killer was known to one more of the victims but not a close friend or relation, most likely lives on outskirts of town and a loner not closer to neighboring homes . This would have enabled him to return home without being noticed or seen by other students or roommates. A person that would have been stalking one of them for a while from a far or occasional greetings and imagined a relationship which was rebuffed causing the rage.

 

[CityKid]

Its obvious the perp didn't want to be caught unlike spree killers who often commit suicide.

So if you don't want to be caught, why choose a target with a high probability of being caught?
So it must've been personal and also unplanned.
That's my logic.

I'm leaning this way (personal/unplanned) as well. Long-simmering tension, perhaps something happened earlier that night that meant something might come to a head soon. Fight at a frat? Drugs? Someone got caught cheating on a bf? Some beer/drug-fueled rage over a situation, not necessarily one person, that they acted on. Students who knew the house. Maybe someone tipped them off as to when everyone was home and the house was relatively quiet.

 

[drmrgrl]

My theories seem to change daily at this point!

I definitely do not think someone's advances were rebuffed and then this person just snapped and decided to kill. To me this crime took A LOT of preplanning.

Then I've been thinking of LE's description of this being a "targeted attack" but they could not say if it was a specific person being targeted or the house itself. I've been chewing on that thinking what in the heck does it mean to "target" a house?

Well, I've decided (at least for today) that this means it could be a mass murderer. If this was not the perp's first time, then we could have a serial killer on our hands.

As always, JMO.

IMO, the killer is likely acting like nothing happened. Hiding in plain sight- will possibly return to school in January.