ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 37

[drmrgrl]

In the "Like, I told Adam everything" video...wasn't that hoodie guy aka JS walking with them? In the timeline when was that video taken? After the food truck and before the Uber?

IMO, Enroute to food truck from Corner Club

 

[CSIDreamer]

While I have no idea if hazing played a part in the murders, it (among other things) got a fraternity at U of I shut down for several years.

The Sigma Alpha Epsilon fraternity chapter at the University of Idaho was closed by its national organization Tuesday and will not be allowed back on campus until at least 2022.

According to a statement released by the university, an investigation into “the chapter’s failure to abide by its national guidelines as well as safety and health violations” led to its closing.

Allegations include hazing, and the university said it is continuing to investigate the matter. Idaho’s SAE fraternity received a cease and desist order in December from the national office.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.idahostatesman.com/news/local/article204998684.html

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

I don't suspect JD of any participation in the murders, but I have wondered from the beginning if he shared the pain of his separation from his girlfriend with a member of Moscow's misogynistic subculture - whose rage against women was triggered with deadly results. IMO, MOO.

imo jmo moo Applying that theory a little differently, what if she shared her plans with someone unsympathetic to her desire to live a life that did not follow the rules of the subculture. During this investigation, there has been some incel terminology used, and it concerned me at the time. I wondered how learned patterns might overlap. Lots of links re this stuff, but just beginning here should scare the bejeezus out of most of us: Incel - Wikipedia

 

[DetRavioli]

Thanks for your response to this. IMO I lean more towards a scenario like this with each passing day. I don’t think SK, but I do think someone not known or at least not well known to the victims that obsessed with every detail of his fantasy and was watching the house for the girls in particular and decided that was the night, probably because it was quiet for once. IMO someone who is a bit of a loner or rejected or bullied by College life.

I keep going back to Jayme Closs and how the right opportunity at the right time allowed him to act on his fantasy and make it real life.

I’ve always felt from the start that this was most likely perpetrated by an incel-type individual. What I’ve always wanted to know but have yet to come across in any articles I’ve seen (and maybe I’ve missed something somehow) is, are police not able to subpoena or otherwise obtain traffic records from social media sites to view the id’s or IP addresses of users and/or devices that frequented any or all of the victims’ pages prior to the night of the murders? I know that it’s highly likely a perp like this would have used a vpn, but I haven’t heard of any forensic cyber investigation to date and my mind cannot let it go. I find it unthinkable that in this day and age, given the victims and the likely suspect (I’m not leaning towards SK at all— but I’m open to any possibility at this point) that there would not have been an element of cyberstalking taking place to some degree. I’m older than the victims, but as a millennial this is immediately where my mind went, and I can’t stop thinking about it.

 

[10ofRods]

That’s a possibility for sure. If there was more than 1 killer. I too wonder if the driver in the Hyundai wasn’t the killer per se. But rather the driver and look out person for the killer and or killers that helped bring them to and from the house the morning of the murders.

Not saying for sure it was multiple killers. As it could have been just one killer driving himself to and from murder house. But the possibility of more than one killer has not be ruled out by me.

While I am not committed to it, I feel that discussion of a group event is important, given the Elantra issue.

What if the killer was known to the Elantra occupants (let's say a friend or acquaintance) and they further knew that he was acting really weird, was raging around, obsessing over something? Let's say they actually see him storm off toward the residential neighborhood. So they jump in their car to go try and look for him/retrieve him. I am basing this off actual college student behavior where I work.

Later, the killer tries an alibi, possibly mentioning Elantra people. Elantra people are no where to be found, and neither is the Elantra. Hmm.

Would that not make LE very very suspicious of this particular person (who is part of a larger group of people being interviewed as the result of some 12,000 tips)?

If the killer did indeed drive himself to (near) the murder house, I am going back to "he had to know the area pretty well." He needed to avoid being captured on someone's ring cam, etc. He needed a clear path to get back to his car. Surely dogs would have sniffed up to the point where the car was parked (and wouldn't LE have included their suspicion that at some point the Elantra might have been parked, however briefly, up on the road overlooking the house? It's hard to imagine another place - there is that one area of W road, I believe, where it's pretty easy to look into the house at 1122 King).

I've learned to try and imagine crime scenes in various ways, always looking for the added odd bit that will eventually emerge. Since this does not appear to be intimate partner violence, we are looking at a vanishingly small number cases that are even similar (quadruple homicide; not familial; with a knife)

 

[TIGER0822]

I’m with you (see my comment directly above yours).

If some coward was lying in wait

I’m with you on this (see my comment directly above yours).

If some coward was lying in wait for all 6 occupants to be asleep, he was taking an enormous risk entering the house only a few minutes after K and M hung up the phone with their final call to the ex at 2:52. Lights out doesn’t mean everyone is asleep.

Rather, LE and the media have been an absolute vault when it comes to X and E’s night, only seeking context to their activities. So much focus has been on K and M, perhaps due to Mr. G’s interviews and the abundance of social media. But, in one of Mr. G’s interviews, he said (paraphrasing) that the killer didn’t have to go upstairs. Is it possible killer’s beef was only with the 2nd floor residents? That K and M may have known of something that transpired earlier in the evening b/w X and E and perpetrator after returning from the Grub Truck?

A good thought provoking point about waiting until all were asleep. The last phone call made was allegedly at 2.52am, and the murders allegedly occurred between 3am-3.45am. The timing between the last call and the attack was mere minutes. The killer had likely entered the house, was listening to the calls and made his move when the calls ended. What time was the Elantra seen on the video?

unfurl="true"]https://nypost.com/2022/11/19/idaho-student-kaylee-goncalves-called-mystery-man-before-murder/amp/[/URL]

 

[layer]

Why was hoodie guy there for protection? Who was stalking or mad at Kg

Sadly, females don't have to have identified stalkers or people that are mad at them to become victims of evil people. And why do you only mention K there?

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

A good thought provoking point about waiting until all were asleep. The last phone call made was allegedly at 2.52am, and the murders allegedly occurred between 3am-3.45am. The timing between the last call and the attack was mere minutes. The killer had likely entered the house, was listening to the calls and made his move when the calls ended. What time was the Elantra seen on the video?

unfurl="true"]Slain Idaho student Kaylee Goncalves called mystery man 7 times hour before her murder, sister says[/URL]

Or maybe the last call was made at 2:52 because at 2:53, the girls heard something and/or the killer appeared. Maybe the 2:52 call wouldn't have been the last if someone hadn't been in the house.

 

[javi]

It just did not seem to me that the blurry photos from the gas station camera or the house that captured video of the white car passing by on Taylor Street was the evidence police were relying on to put out such a conclusive statement that they were looking for a white Elantra. This house that had that camera was a football field distance from Taylor Street. Also the car was only visible to the camera for a split second as it was passing by.

I had never seen this before but now I am personally confident that THIS was the source of the video that police used to confirm that a white Elantra was in the immediate vicinity. This house I believe had the camera that was aimed directly at the street and would have captured any car coming or going on King Road. It would certainly have the video of the Elantra if this was a surveilance camera which I believe it was.

You can see the view that this would have captured in this CNN photo.

Police suspect 'edged weapon' was used in killings of 4 University of Idaho students. Here's what we know | CNN


And here the photo shows something clearly is screwed into the light fixture and is the kind of camera that can be purchased on Amazon. It is not in the light fixture later. This would have given the police a very good look at the car which they would have known about immediately and I am convinced this was the source for their confidence about the white Elantra.

Moscow Homicide

 

[maskedwoman]

One (of many things that confuses me about this case) is the timeline, specifically the timing around the known calls to the ex-bf at 2:52. Clearly, K and M were wide awake at that point. Elantra in area between 2:45 and 3:15. Is the suggestion that the murders happened in the earlier part of the 3:00am hour? Seems so risky to assume K and M would be fully asleep so quickly after calling ex.

That is an excellent point. It does seem odd to think one of them could be worked up enough to make a flurry of calls to the X and be sound asleep less than 15 minutes later. Of course, there are people like my husband who will ask me a question and be snoring before I can answer him! Not exaggerating. LOL

 

[10ofRods]

Thanks for your response to this. IMO I lean more towards a scenario like this with each passing day. I don’t think SK, but I do think someone not known or at least not well known to the victims that obsessed with every detail of his fantasy and was watching the house for the girls in particular and decided that was the night, probably because it was quiet for once. IMO someone who is a bit of a loner or rejected or bullied by College life.

I keep going back to Jayme Closs and how the right opportunity at the right time allowed him to act on his fantasy and make it real life.

I go through this same scenario and am trying to look through the criminology and psychological data on incels. We have a precedent, of course, in Elliot Rodger, but he killed himself upon completion of his vengeance. It's such a sad case. He killed his house mates (male) and then went off to exact revenge on the college community (because he was feeling rejected by wonen),

His parents had sought help for him as early as age 8. I believe he also had a major psychiatric diagnosis. Since it's in the ballpark of this crime, it's worth it to at least think along these directions.

I'm sure LE is checking this out. It's basically a more advanced/thought out version of Elliot Rodgers - which should indeed scare the heck out of all of us.

I’ve always felt from the start that this was most likely perpetrated by an incel-type individual. What I’ve always wanted to know but have yet to come across in any articles I’ve seen (and maybe I’ve missed something somehow) is, are police not able to subpoena or otherwise obtain traffic records from social media sites to view the id’s or IP addresses of users and/or devices that frequented any or all of the victims’ pages prior to the night of the murders? I know that it’s highly likely a perp like this would have used a vpn, but I haven’t heard of any forensic cyber investigation to date and my mind cannot let it go. I find it unthinkable that in this day and age, given the victims and the likely suspect (I’m not leaning towards SK at all— but I’m open to any possibility at this point) that there would not have been an element of cyberstalking taking place to some degree. I’m older than the victims, but as a millennial this is immediately where my mind went, and I can’t stop thinking about it.

Idaho has pretty strict privacy laws - and very few cameras that actually record data in public settings.

What traffic records exist within social media sites?

They can definitely set up a digital trap *after* the crime and get everyone's router data within a certain area approved by a Judge. I assume that's what they are doing (google "FBI Stingray" and see how it's been used in the past).

They can also get a warrant for a particular person's search data for Google or whatever engine they think they're using (which they would know by now) But *not* a blanket warrant for *everyone's" data - that's not okay.

Rest assured that with so many FBI on site, digital forensics is at the very forefront - and you won't hear about most of it until trial.

Two of the victims had extensive social media usage. I assume those were some of the first warrants they served. Further, amateur sleuths are able to use the already existing methods of judging SM engagement (its volume) on TikTok, Youtube and Insta. For example, clever TikTok users are able to calculate which of the victims' postings had the most engagement in the week or other time period before the murders. The results are surprising, IMO. Some day, we'll get a TikTok expert here and then maybe be able to discuss some of this.

It's one of the things that makes this case so complicated. How would we even define "cyberstalking" when a victim had some 50K followers, nearly all of whom appear not to post much and have private profiles (so they're looking at her, she would need to interact/approve their follow to see their profile - which she appears to have done). They are from all over the world, as far as I can tell.

Put that together with the many DNA profiles they probably found inside the house (aside from the victims') and it's a really tough case. But it's hard for me to put the Elantra together with "cyber stalker," so I think LE is focusing in a different direction (although who knows - they may have many different directions).

 

[Auntie Cipation]

So my question how do they know that E&X arrived home at precisely 1:45 am?

One possibility is that their phones reconnected with the house wifi at that time. MOO

 

[Nila Aella]

It just did not seem to me that the blurry photos from the gas station camera or the house that captured video of the white car passing by on Taylor Street was the evidence police were relying on to put out such a conclusive statement that they were looking for a white Elantra. This house that had that camera was a football field distance from Taylor Street. Also the car was only visible to the camera for a split second as it was passing by.

I had never seen this before but now I am personally confident that THIS was the source of the video that police used to confirm that a white Elantra was in the immediate vicinity. This house I believe had the camera that was aimed directly at the street and would have captured any car coming or going on King Road. It would certainly have the video of the Elantra if this was a surveilance camera which I believe it was.

You can see the view that this would have captured in this CNN photo.

Police suspect 'edged weapon' was used in killings of 4 University of Idaho students. Here's what we know | CNN


And here the photo shows something clearly is screwed into the light fixture and is the kind of camera that can be purchased on Amazon. It is not in the light fixture later. This would have given the police a very good look at the car which they would have known about immediately and I am convinced this was the source for their confidence about the white Elantra.

Moscow Homicide

Very Interesting! Earlier I was trying to figure out where exactly the tire track marks were. I think some were on that road, others in the driveway, but I am not sure. Wondering if that camera would capture where they were measuring the tire tracks? MOO

Idaho university murders: Investigators seen measuring tire marks at house where 4 students were killed

Idaho investigators were seen measuring tire marks outside of the Moscow, Idaho, home where four University of Idaho students were stabbed to death.

www.foxnews.com

 

[maskedwoman]

I agree with you.

He may well have had his phone on silent - I often do when sleeping.

Excellent point. I have my own phone set to do not disturb nightly between certain hours. And I have certain people set to override it, in case of an emergency. If J does that, I would suspect an X would not be set to override it.

 

[Spb1213]

One possibility is that their phones reconnected with the house wifi at that time. MOO

And then I’m so curious what they did after they arrived home. Going to sleep is, of course, an option, but wondering if other guests joined them at the house.

 

[Fascinated1]

Or maybe the last call was made at 2:52 because at 2:53, the girls heard something and/or the killer appeared. Maybe the 2:52 call wouldn't have been the last if someone hadn't been in the house.

Reading backwards so this may have been thought of but it’s possible e and x were killed first since that timeline is more unknown (maybe after 130 given known time of downstairs roomates). Then he would have been in the house and able to wait until it was quiet-esp if he did not know the bottom two were there.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Reading backwards so this may have been thought of but it’s possible e and x were killed first since that timeline is more unknown (maybe after 130 given known time of downstairs roomates). Then he would have been in the house and able to wait until it was quiet-esp if he did not know the bottom two were there.

Or maybe E and X were fighting with an intruder and the calls to Kaylee's ex were trying to get help. Most of us would have called police under those circumstances, unless maybe K and M knew the intruder. Maybe the intruder was actually a guest who was there that evening and they didn't want LE involved.

All MOO.

 

[MCMi9viv]

It just did not seem to me that the blurry photos from the gas station camera or the house that captured video of the white car passing by on Taylor Street was the evidence police were relying on to put out such a conclusive statement that they were looking for a white Elantra. This house that had that camera was a football field distance from Taylor Street. Also the car was only visible to the camera for a split second as it was passing by.

I had never seen this before but now I am personally confident that THIS was the source of the video that police used to confirm that a white Elantra was in the immediate vicinity. This house I believe had the camera that was aimed directly at the street and would have captured any car coming or going on King Road. It would certainly have the video of the Elantra if this was a surveilance camera which I believe it was.

You can see the view that this would have captured in this CNN photo.

Police suspect 'edged weapon' was used in killings of 4 University of Idaho students. Here's what we know | CNN


And here the photo shows something clearly is screwed into the light fixture and is the kind of camera that can be purchased on Amazon. It is not in the light fixture later. This would have given the police a very good look at the car which they would have known about immediately and I am convinced this was the source for their confidence about the white Elantra.

Moscow Homicide

At this point, could LE go ahead and release the video of the Elantra? It would seem to me that giving the public a bit more info on the car (time stamp, who or what else may have been there) This might trigger an “oh, wait, I saw that” moment?

 

[layer]

I had never seen this before but now I am personally confident that THIS was the source of the video that police used to confirm that a white Elantra was in the immediate vicinity. This house I believe had the camera that was aimed directly at the street and would have captured any car coming or going on King Road. It would certainly have the video of the Elantra if this was a surveilance camera which I believe it was.

There are a couple of problems with that camera. It is a good 50 feet away from the house where the murders occurred, and pointing in the opposite direction. It could definitely see cars coming and going up and down the street toward and from the murder scene. But it would also see all the cars driving to those large apartment buildings past the house.

But more of a problem, in my mind, is that these cameras use wifi to interface with an app on a cell phone. Footage is stored locally, not on the cloud like a Ring camera. Many, if not most people that use these cameras turn down the sensitivity and field of view to save storage space on their phones, to save bandwidth, and to avoid getting annoying alerts every time a car drives by. There is a good chance that the camera was set to only record activity on their own property. And the wifi cameras I used tended to drop the signal at the most inopportune time.

JMHO

 

[NyxNY]

Why was hoodie guy there for protection? Who was stalking or mad at Kg

IMO Just so that they weren’t walking alone