ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 37

[hopewell]

Hmm. I've had the same thought. Then I bump into that daily ask by the Police Chief. Why are they still asking for Elantra info from the past??

Indeed. This isn't Perry Mason and real life LE doesn't do ruses. Any defense attorney would have a field day with that white car if it turned out not to be involved, and since the public now knows about it it pollutes any potential jurors. It's bona fide reasonable doubt.

My opinion.

 

[NEAtty]

I think that white Hyundai Elantra has everything to do with these murders. JMO

I agree.

Many posters have questioned whether the video’ed vehicle is even an Elantra. IMO, LE may have crime scene evidence pointing to a Hyundai Elantra of a specific model year (for example, fibers from upholstery installed in white Elantras of those model years).

Referencing the video of the white vehicle would give LE a reason to ask for info specifically about a white Elantra from those model years without disclosing that they have that evidence.

MOO.

 

[NugHunter]

A possible theory I have is :
killer went to house to rape maddie knowing she would be out that night drinking and partying...did not know kaylee would be back in town...hides in maddies bedroom..girls come home and pass out drunk after texting exbf(possibly angering killer)...killer comes out of hiding kills kaylee..kills maddie ..goes to leave comes across dylan either due to commotion he made or dylan just using bathroom,,... and kills him..xana awakes from commotion ...killer goes in her room kills her because witness or could call alert LE..then killer leaves.

 

[drmrgrl]

JMO IMO I'm not sure - and I don't know that they are either, at least until they see it. It's like the puzzle piece you can't find, and then you see it and it clicks. My money is on LE having lots of pieces and they'll know a missing piece when they see it. At least that's how my brain works (intuitively) and I can't really tell you until I can tell myself, but I always put it together. My bet is LE will do the same. IMO JMO

Thanks! That really has me thinking….

 

[CSIDreamer]

Believe it or not, go to Walmart.com and Ka-Bar knives are sold. Whether or not they keep them in stock in stores, I cannot say.

None of the ones near me do. The knives in stock are locked in a glass case as well. I checked my local ones out.

I was looking for a specific style.

 

[Montecore1]

I was referring to in stores, with surveilance cameras and a receipt like in the Rhoden case that began this line of thought

They are for sale in stores, in the sporting goods aisles...dozens of them. I responded with the info hoping that youre right...maybe it was recently purchased at a Walmart and their security will indeed help, but whatever

 

[Ksfarmer8]

The very reason they said Kabar type was that they know it had a handguard/hilt. The coroner has said the wounds caused bruises. 99% of the time that is from knife going to hilt/handguard. folding and kitchen knifes don't have the kind of hilt.

Very few large knives do not have a hilt!! Most all large knives have a hilt for just the reasons you mentioned. IMHO that LE referenced a Kabar type as it covers a multitude of knives and maybe not even a Kabar brand.

 

[Diogenetic]

AFAIK no Walmarts sell combat knives anythink like a KA-BAR.

Yes they do. These are not exotic, they are VERY common. Also I can buy a kabar or any number of large combat knive from amazon and they will ship it to DC. In fact a minor can.

 

[Auntie Cipation]

@NugHunter -- you may want to edit if you see this in time -- you meant Ethan. (Dylan is I believe one of the female survivors)

 

[Diogenetic]

Very few large knives do not have a hilt!! Most all large kinives have a hilt for just the reasons you mentioned. IMHO that LE referenced a Kabar type as it covers a multitude of knives and maybe not even a Kabar brand.

I agree it may not have been kabar brand or even kabar knock off. The coroner referenced the bruising meaning it was some type of similar large combat knife.

Most knives in knife attacks are folding knives or kitchen knifes and do not have a guard/hilt.

That was my point, the forensics experts undoubtalby have seen way more stabbings with folding knives and kitchen knives that have not design to protect the hand in a stabbing thrust, whereas kabar and other combat knives are designed for a thrust and have a hilt made to keep your hand from getting injured.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

I am not part of that exchange but I don't see it as really meaningful, except mainly for time. It would be interesting if they noted the time, although that is not something someone with no training would probably do.

Being conditions to hearing noises almost all weekend nights, parties, probably occasional guests in rooms, or on couch would also mean it was natural to ignore the noises. My first housemates when I was a sophomore in undergrad made every human and non human noise all the time.

What we don't have from that news article is any indication as to whether hearing noise was unusual. The house and the residents could actually be noisy as a norm.

For what it’s worth, if I were a parent with a kid who came out of that house alive, I wouldn’t tell the media she had heard anything with the killer(s) still at large. But when pressed by the media, sometimes people make poor decisions or her comments were not fairly represented.

 

[branmuffin]

One of the required courses for KG's major was indeed such a course - so if that's all she had to take, she was good to do it almost anywhere (probably had to meet up with the supervising prof 1-2 times). There was also a senior year capstone course (one for each semester - she could well have taken the spring offering last spring, but I am wondering how she planned to complete that one requirement - it was not offered as a DL course, but she could have special arrangements).

So that then begs the question: if you can do your work anywhere, and you're taking out student loans (as claimed by her parents) to afford your on campus lifestyle, why pay rent? And it sure sounds like she did not have a full time job in Moscow that would have offset her expenses.

She could have used her "internship" money (her parents are a bit confused about what the term "intern" usually means in a college - it means "unpaid work experience," but of course companies can do whatever they want about actually paying someone; I am not sure her parents are the best source on this).

If she got enough internship money to pay for the Range Rover, her rent and utilities, gasoline, medical and vet bills, food and clothing in one summer's work, then it makes sense. But that's one unusual internship, from my experience.

Just some interesting ways of looking at KG, who by all accounts was a good student and ambitious.



No. I have suggested that one motive for such killings could be that someone, somewhere, had a secret.

Then I also suggested that if people are going to theorize that there was more than one person involved in this crime, I will bet all my lunch money that this will rope in fraternities and sororities - it's not a cartel, it's not a motorcycle gang, it's not the local service workers' union members, it's not a group of neighbors, etc.

I have at least another 50 articles on hazing to read when I get time, but after spending half a day on it (and this isn't my first pass through this information), I do think it sounds like a form of gang initiation (and its intentions are the same - to create a secret code and a bound-together-by-misadventure crew of...pranksters? Sadly, alcohol itself can be fatal to inexperienced young people).

All it would take, though, is one person with a secret and a mission - and a psychopathic mind (which, IMO, goes without saying in this crime - this was the crime of a person who harbors enormous aggression, fantasizes aggression, likes thinking about weapons, is either prone to rage or hate - and is hidden in plain sight, most likely). That's why the police want the Elantra. They believe that someone knew or saw this person that night. They know who the person is. They have found "patterns" in the results of their talks with many, many witnesses - they are still stuck on the Elantra that was on campus/near campus that night. They are not telling the public that there's a rando psychopath at large.

Could one person in a frat be that person? Of course - and in that case, would all his brothers immediately turn him in? Maybe. But if, as Chief Fry said on Friday (I think it was Friday), "we don't know where the individual is." Something like that. Very scary for the town of Moscow - and especially, for LE. If, however, the frat people do not turn him in - but simply tell the truth about not knowing his whereabouts that night, that would make him highly suspicious to LE. POI's are not generally named these days, in any case.

What LE needs is for the witnesses in the Elantra to place this person at or near 1122 King Road or vicinity that night. They may have a good idea that this person left his dwelling and was out and about, but so far, haven't got him on a neighbor's camera. If it's the other scenario, in which the occupants of the Elantra are involved somehow - then yes, we do get an example of a group of people, most likely young people and university-related, being involved in a quadruple murder. In my mind, it's possible that the Elantra driver and occupant (if any) might know this person and might have seen him in the area of the house (and may even have told others this already - but are unwilling to tell LE).

There's a secret. Somewhere. IMO. The dynamics of this situation could be applied to other possible suspects, but it makes sense that it would be a student (probably not undergrad) who has known anger issues and has been mentioned to LE, and the Elantra people are crucial to confirming that they saw him that night, outside of his dwelling and in the neighborhood of 1122 King. Could be non-fraternity related, but my intuition (MOO) says that there are students who know more than we do.



Me too. Something like that. Surprising to look through instagrams of some of the frats and see a few ski masks, too. I was thinking that a person with a big self protection knife would want opportunities to display it and practice with it, too. But I bet there are quite a few people who meet that description out of the 10-11,000 students in Moscow (and some locals could fit the description as well).

You're an expert and I'm not so I would like you to offer your expertise relating to this theory I have. When we talk about psychopaths we always couch them in negative terms. And yet, it's been said by many professionals that some of the characteristics of a psychopath can be considered positive traits especially in certain professions. Things like ruthlessness, charisma, focus, coolness under pressure, etc. Those can be the character traits of people like CEOs of large corporations, politicians, and surgeons. Even someone like James Bond could be classified a psychopath the way he dispatches his enemies. There is a scene in Casino Royale where someone says, "Killing all those people? It doesn't bother you?" To which Bond replies, "I wouldn't be very good at my job, if I did."

So those traits like ruthlessness and focus can be considered positive if they allow enable an individual to treat the murders like a transaction, one that they benefit from.

I also feel like there is a connection between the murders and the fraternity. I don't know what it is but I feel like one of those killed was in a position to destroy someone's future. I also have this feeling that the fraternity has a shadowy influence over what occurred on November 13th. And even though I believe one person is responsible for the killings, I think one person or even more are well aware of who the killer is and their survival instincts keep them from saying anything. All my opinion.

MOO IMO

 

[Ksfarmer8]

I agree it may not have been kabar brand or even kabar knock off. The coroner referenced the bruising meaning it was some type of similar large combat knife.

Most knives in knife attacks are folding knives or kitchen knifes and do not have a guard/hilt.

That was my point, the forensics experts undoubtalby have seen way more stabbings with folding knives and kitchen knives that have not design to protect the hand in a stabbing thrust, whereas kabar and other combat knives are designed for a thrust and have a hilt made to keep your hand from getting injured.

Good point about the types of knives most commonly used in stabbings. This crime seems unusual.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

We too often forget that someone who commits a gruesome, monstrous murder is almost certainly not morally, emotionally or psychologically like the rest of us.

Thank you. IMO JMO I see us trying to identify motive through predictable lenses, but JMO that doesn't work here. This killer murdered - not just murdered, but stabbed viciously, butchered, carved - four young people for no logical reason.

IMO JMO If there were a logical reason, LE/FBI/BAU would have found it IMO JMO. These are some pretty smart people, and my guess is that they've been through all the predictable scenarios, and they got not much. JMO IMO IDK and ICBW.

BUT.

To do what this killer did is beyond what we can explain. The smell, the butchery, the plunging and tearing, the wet, sticky mess, it's going to cause a visceral reaction in anyone near normal, and this killer did this not just once, not just twice, not three times, but four times. If you've never seen and smelled a living human splayed open, I can promise you, it's horrid. It's an out-of-body experience IMO JMO. And that's the lens we must use when we consider this horror. HOW this was done overrides anything normal. JMO IMO. end of lecture. I think I'll go relax and watch Zodiac lol.

 

[Montecore1]

Idaho murders: Leaked image appears to show victims inside local bar hours before unsolved stabbings​

A leaked image of two of the four University of Idaho victims has emerged as the investigation into a quadruple stabbing nears a seventh week without a suspect.

www.foxnews.com

Can this photo inside CC be discussed ?

 

[3FrenchHens]

Disclaimer: All In My Opinion.
This is not my personal theory, but a theory and a simple explanation to 4 victims:
Assailant walked in acting normal. Had backpack with bunny suit to wear and remove. Just acted normal, like any other time s/he was there. Very fast, very quiet attack on (targeted) 3rd floor victim and her friend by proximity. Then accidently happened into room on 2nd floor enroute (in dark) to the stairs to lowest floor. Bigger challenge ensued, was not part of the plan. Did what s/he had to do and left. Enough energy. Enough lunar light. Since that time has returned to acting normal.
Can it be that simple? Just food for thought.
All IMO, IMMO, JMO.

Occam’s razor | Origin, Examples, & Facts | Britannica

 

[10ofRods]

How do we know the heart and arteries were not struck? I may have missed them saying that.

We actually don't know a single thing except there was a stabbing.

However, some of the parents have spoken out, saying they talked to the Coroner (who even talked to a teen-aged daughter of one of the victims, giving her information as well). SG is the source of the lungs and liver as targets information.

That doesn't constitute knowledge - just like most of what we're theorizing about. However, my view is that if major arteries were struck, boy would it be hard for the blood to all soak into the bedding (as intended by the killer IMO) and instead, the killer would be very likely to track blood around leaving footprints (we see no footprint markers outdoor in the MSM photos of the investigation of the site, but perhaps there were some inside?) I think it's likely that the killer made plans such that this kind of scenario of dripping and tracking victim's blood all over would be less likely (hence, wanting them on their mattresses, asleep or not; not going for the jugular or carotid).

And of course, the Coroner did say chest and torso. SG says "lungs and liver."

We have very few facts in this case. So we speculate and it's my opinion that SG knows a bit about his own daughter's death, plus a criminal wanting to evade capture might just research the elements of this kind of crime.

 

[Diogenetic]

Maybe the FBI needs to adjust their automobile recognition make, model, and color program. I'm interested in why you think they've got it all wrong?

I think they have advanced a lot in recent years and probably now have very good AI at recognition of types of cars.
That being said, I do remember not to long ago the FBI leaking thye were looking for white van in the the beltway sniper/s case. In fact those perps never posseted or used a white van. All their attacks and transportation was in a blue sedan.

Also even proper ID of car does not mean it follows that this car, its owner or its driver were involved.

Of course we don't really know. on one hand, it could be 100% fishing on a tenuous possible one in a 100 lead, or at the other extreme, it could well be they investigators know that a prime suspect had access to exactly that car and and are trying to either developed more evidence, or get the guy or his alibi to fold or make an error.

 

[al66pine]

ORGAN STABBING.USEFUL KNOWLEDGE? EXPERIENCED HUNTERS??
@Montecore1 (from post 728)
“…Very interesting info and I agree that an average person would not have this knowledge, but would you think that a experienced hunter may know these "techniques"?...”
_____________________________________
Snipped for focus @Montecore1 Trying to think this thru.

KNOWING where the heart, liver, lungs are in, say a deer, bear, or bighorn sheep, imo would neither help much in locating those organs in a human, nor ACCURATELY inflicting a quick, silent, and fatal stab to a human, which presumably is the King Road Perp’s goal.

TECHNIQUE. My knowledge of hunting is narrow, but seems hunters use firearms of various sorts, cross-bows, and bows & arrow, rather than knives to kill game. Doubtful that hunters generally have much experience in using knives to specifically target prey's77 organs.

Yes, hunters use knives in field-dressing their game,* but IIUC they avoid cutting into the organs. From an online brief tutorial on field-dressing: “… remove all internal organs right after the kill without contaminating the meat…”
Just what I’ve gleaned from a couple quick reads. Imo jmo moo

Hoping someone w hunters in the household will chime in.
____________________________________________
*Field dressing (hunting) - Wikipedia
** Field Dressing Guide

 

[blackbeary]

'Most beautiful children': Friends of UI murder victims gather for vigil at Independence Point - KXLY

COEUR D’ALENE, Idaho — Close friends and former classmates of the four victims who were killed in Moscow over the weekend gathered at Independence Point on Wednesday night. Those at the vigil spent the night lighting candles, listening to music, and remembering those who were lost. “Even my...

www.kxly.com