ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 38

[jcamh]

I think it's interesting because multiple reporters have said, over last few weeks, that many businesses - including specifically the Corner Club - refused to speak to the media. ( Speaking only with LE)
Last reporter I heard saying this was Entin. ( I can't recall names of all the rest now.)

If those accounts are true I can't see why an owner/ owner manager would want to put the image out there. An employee maybe although IDK what the motive would be because it's not as if the motive was financial - wasn't sold to one of the big tabloids or networks. Plus, ofc, LE would already have had all the cam footage & maybe this still image is also not of probative value.

Maybe somebody's just looking to stir things up?

As I stated previously, I am in public relations and know A LOT about working with the media. So, if a business owner or other related parties say they have been told not to SPEAK to the media AND the media is not offering to pay them for an interview, people are less likely to give an interview because of how it can open up unwanted attention.

However, there are tabloid media outlets that openly post that they will pay for news tips, leads, interviews, etc. If you have information that is highly relevant or sensational, you can make money - especially if you are willing to sign an exclusivity contract that you will not speak with any other media.

Reputable media outlets will claim that they will NOT pay for interviews. HOWEVER, they will pay to LICENSE the usage of video and photos. In high profile cases, where a network could spread out the cost of licensing footage among all of its affiliates who would want to use it, the amount they pay for photos and videos can be HUGE - especially if the photos or videos are unique. It is not uncommon for "BIG" photos/videos to go for $100K or more. But typically, the licensing fee is not that high.
This is a very HIGH PROFILE case and every news outlet wants to have "inside" information or never before seen photos/videos so they are likely to offer small amounts for multiple photos, especially if they can buy exclusive usage for the rights to the images.

As for television networks - every TV network and station in the country is working on their February sweeps sensational programming. February sweeps is one of the four months of the year (February, May, July and November) when advertising ratings are measured which determine advertising rates. With Sweeps in mind, all of the investigative programming and networks will be trying to "solve" this crime IN FEBRUARY! So, the amount they will pay to license videos and photos for a sweeps story will go up.

They key here is EXCLUSIVITY so that you can't sell it to multiple media outlets. The contract will have language that says something like (and I'm paraphrasing), "You attest that you are the legal owner of this image or video and you grant exclusive, WORLDWIDE distribution of this image/video to (INSERT NAME OF MEDIA OUTLET) basically FOREVER (because of reruns, spin-offs, repackaged and syndicated programs that will run for like the rest of your life)."

So, if a media outlet offers you $10K for a video that is relevant to this case, you may think, "wow, that's a lot of money. SOLD." But what you may not realize is HOW MUCH MORE you could get for that video because of all of the advertising revenue that the media outlet is going to make for decades to come off of this image. If you find yourself in possession of the ORIGINAL image/video that you can legally prove you own the rights to - i.e. you took the photo or video yourself or it was taken by your own cameras in a business you own, then, the best way to go is to work with a reputable agency to handle all of the contracts and sales of the images or videos. An example is Getty Images. If you register the image with a service, then the service will search worldwide for any media outlets that may have grabbed the image without paying for it and they will bill the media outlet for using it.

Just my two cents.....

 

[HopeValleyDevil]

Which way is west on this map?

Click on the link

a strong, usually irresistible impulse to perform an act,

That is a motive. Maybe we don't understand it but the killer does.

the underlying reason for any action.

The killer feels compelled to kill = motive.

JMO

I worked with a guy who has served prison a few times. I told him a story about a neighbour who had bullied a few of the neighbours and was threatening.

The work colleague was desperate to go around and perform a 'behaviour modification'.

Underneath, he had major behaviour issues from drug abuse where he really just needed to impart violence on someone. He had served prison a few times for violent assault.

Certain individuals have underlying mental conditions that create the need to be violent and prison isn't a deterrent, it's a lifestyle.

 

[cottonweaver]

We know one person went in and voluntarily submitted his DNA in an effort to stop online rumors that he is a murderer.
Neighbor Submits DNA to Police
You’re so right about collecting and analyzing DNA in that environment being a challenge.
It stands to reason DNA and fingerprints have been voluntarily submitted by roommates and regular visitors at LE request for the process of elimination. If I were close enough to be interviewed and tested in any way I wouldn’t tell a soul, the last thing I would want is for my name to get out on social media or the news media in the current environment of doxxing and naming people as suspicious or guilty.
They may have DNA from the killer but have to separate it from the victim’s DNA which is a much more complex process, but the flip side of that is if one’s DNA is mixed with the victim’s, that’s some strong evidence they were there during the murders.
Idaho murders: Fox News takes inside look at State Police crime lab as investigation nears one month
“If you have a mixture of multiple individuals’ DNA, that's going to take longer because it takes an expert scientist trained in mixture interpretation to be able to look at that type of a sample”

BBM

just to add that ISP forensic lab do have the tech for ' mixtures of multiple individuals’ DNA' because I checked their in-house training manuals' checklists. ( Although it doesn't necessarily mean they have the ' manpower' - they might only have one recently trained scientist for this area)

private labs services who often undertake deconvolution services for LE, such as Merck characterise 3-6 weeks turnaround as ' quick' turnaround.

 

[jcamh]

No surprise, the WS-approved source CURRENTLY citing the surveillance video still photo was leaked came from DM-- including the embedded tweets... I've not seen this or the actual video reported elsewhere.

• The leaked surveillance photo was taken from the Corner Club bar at 1.32am

Authorities are now being condemned online by internet sleuths for failing to halt the circulation of evidence and compromising the investigation in the murders of Kaylee and Madison, their roommate Xana Kernodle and her boyfriend Ethan Chapin.

[..]

View attachment 390459

View attachment 390460

New surveillance photo shows Idaho students in bar on night of murder

Kaylee Goncalves and Madison Mogen were in downtown Moscow hours before their deaths. The leaked surveillance photo was taken from the Corner Club bar at 1.32am.

www.dailymail.co.uk

ETA: my references are intentionally limited to WS-approved sources

Law enforcement could NOT halt this photo from being distributed, leaked, sold, whatever because they don't OWN it. The legal copyright always rests with the photographer (or in this case owner of the business whose cameras captured the image). Now, the legal owner of the rights to the photo/video can sell or license the rights for limited usage or exclusive usage to anyone who is willing to pay for it.

 

[cottonweaver]

As I stated previously, I am in public relations and know A LOT about working with the media. So, if a business owner or other related parties say they have been told not to SPEAK to the media AND the media is not offering to pay them for an interview, people are less likely to give an interview because of how it can open up unwanted attention.

However, there are tabloid media outlets that openly post that they will pay for news tips, leads, interviews, etc. If you have information that is highly relevant or sensational, you can make money - especially if you are willing to sign an exclusivity contract that you will not speak with any other media.

Reputable media outlets will claim that they will NOT pay for interviews. HOWEVER, they will pay to LICENSE the usage of video and photos. In high profile cases, where a network could spread out the cost of licensing footage among all of its affiliates who would want to use it, the amount they pay for photos and videos can be HUGE - especially if the photos or videos are unique. It is not uncommon for "BIG" photos/videos to go for $100K or more. But typically, the licensing fee is not that high.
This is a very HIGH PROFILE case and every news outlet wants to have "inside" information or never before seen photos/videos so they are likely to offer small amounts for multiple photos, especially if they can buy exclusive usage for the rights to the images.

As for television networks - every TV network and station in the country is working on their February sweeps sensational programming. February sweeps is one of the four months of the year (February, May, July and November) when advertising ratings are measured which determine advertising rates. With Sweeps in mind, all of the investigative programming and networks will be trying to "solve" this crime IN FEBRUARY! So, the amount they will pay to license videos and photos for a sweeps story will go up.

They key here is EXCLUSIVITY so that you can't sell it to multiple media outlets. The contract will have language that says something like (and I'm paraphrasing), "You attest that you are the legal owner of this image or video and you grant exclusive, WORLDWIDE distribution of this image/video to (INSERT NAME OF MEDIA OUTLET) basically FOREVER (because of reruns, spin-offs, repackaged and syndicated programs that will run for like the rest of your life)."

So, if a media outlet offers you $10K for a video that is relevant to this case, you may think, "wow, that's a lot of money. SOLD." But what you may not realize is HOW MUCH MORE you could get for that video because of all of the advertising revenue that the media outlet is going to make for decades to come off of this image. If you find yourself in possession of the ORIGINAL image/video that you can legally prove you own the rights to - i.e. you took the photo or video yourself or it was taken by your own cameras in a business you own, then, the best way to go is to work with a reputable agency to handle all of the contracts and sales of the images or videos. An example is Getty Images. If you register the image with a service, then the service will search worldwide for any media outlets that may have grabbed the image without paying for it and they will bill the media outlet for using it.

Just my two cents.....

yeah just to note an important point though wrt this particular item/ ' leak'


It wasn't passed to a tabloid or a network. It was passed to Reddit - for free - and then later ended up in the tabloids. ( Payment isn't a factor here)

 

[10ofRods]

And during COVID-19 she could have taken extra classes remotely.

Yep. Most unis allow about 21 units per semester.

 

[Normamsmiley]

My questions:

1-How does LE know that E&K got home around 1:45?
2-If CC photo is legit, why didn’t JD leave with M&K?
3-I find it hard to believe that they are looking for the Elantra based on it simply passing on Taylor. Was it the tire marks that matched? Is there a video of it driving up and parking?
4-On the PR, they ask for pics/vids/SM from the night that adds context. IMO, someone has told them something that happened that evening (not sure E&X or L&M) and LE knows there is digital evidence of something that points to potential motive and needs the Dig Evidence to corroborate - and does it have to do with E&X/Sig Chi or K&M/CC - Underage drinking seems a little small for people to hold back. Drugs? Cheating? A Fight? Theft? Bullying SM?
5-Was HG really trying to protect them? From what/who?

 

[z0mer]

My questions:

1-How does LE know that E&K got home around 1:45?
2-If CC photo is legit, why didn’t JD leave with M&K?
3-I find it hard to believe that they are looking for the Elantra based on it simply passing on Taylor. Was it the tire marks that matched? Is there a video of it driving up and parking?
4-On the PR, they ask for pics/vids/SM from the night that adds context. IMO, someone has told them something that happened that evening (not sure E&X or L&M) and LE knows there is digital evidence of something that points to potential motive and needs the Dig Evidence to corroborate - and does it have to do with E&X/Sig Chi or K&M/CC - Underage drinking seems a little small for people to hold back. Drugs? Cheating? A Fight? Theft? Bullying SM?
5-Was HG really trying to protect them? From what/who?

1. Router/modem data seems likely or maybe the keypad on the front door.
2. Maybe he was there with other friends.
3. They likely have better footage, their neighbours have a cam that probably spotted the car in better quality.

 

[Kittycat40]

a strong, usually irresistible impulse to perform an act,

That is a motive. Maybe we don't understand it but the killer does.

the underlying reason for any action.

The killer feels compelled to kill = motive.

JMO

Not quite that simple.

For serial killers like Ted Bundy, the Green River killer, Dennis Raider etc. maybe it was simply their urge to kill.

However, for those who murder but aren’t serial killers they have some motive that goes beyond their simple urge to kill. The motive could be jealousy, could be robbery, could be money like spouses killing spouse for life insurance money, vengeance etc etc.

 

[gizmobtj]

No surprise, the WS-approved source CURRENTLY citing the surveillance video still photo was leaked came from DM-- including the embedded tweets... I've not seen this or the actual video reported elsewhere.

• The leaked surveillance photo was taken from the Corner Club bar at 1.32am

Authorities are now being condemned online by internet sleuths for failing to halt the circulation of evidence and compromising the investigation in the murders of Kaylee and Madison, their roommate Xana Kernodle and her boyfriend Ethan Chapin.

[..]

View attachment 390459

View attachment 390460

New surveillance photo shows Idaho students in bar on night of murder

Kaylee Goncalves and Madison Mogen were in downtown Moscow hours before their deaths. The leaked surveillance photo was taken from the Corner Club bar at 1.32am.

www.dailymail.co.uk

ETA: my references are intentionally limited to WS-approved sources

It was also posted on a Facebook group, the first known time I know of, that we can't link to here

 

[NuttMegg]

MOO! Hansen's psychological profile is my major reason for thinking the killer chose a knife as a weapon and the cover of darkness to act. "In his youth, he was painfully shy, had a stutter and severe acne that left him permanently scarred. Not receiving the attention he wanted from the attractive girls in school, Hansen grew up hating them and nursing fantasies of cruel revenge." At one point he burned a school bus. One of his kidnapped victims escaped, handcuffed, from the backseat of his Piper Cub and fled to the nearest highway where a trucker picked her up. She begged to be dropped at a nearby motel where she pleaded with the desk clerk to call her boyfriend, NOT THE POLICE. John Douglas predicted the killer would be an experienced hunter with low self-esteem, have a history of being rejected by women, and would feel compelled to keep "souvenirs" of his murders. He also suggested that the assailant might stutter. While incarcerated Hansen was diagnosed with manic depression and periodic schizophrenic episodes. The shrink who made the diagnosis noted that Hansen had an “infantile personality” and was obsessed with getting back at people he felt had wronged him. He felt important, even God-like, when hunting kidnapped women in the long night of the Alaskan bush. MOO again! I've thought from the very beginning that this killer is going to be shyly non-descript, weird but not scary, possibly with a list of lesser crimes against both people and places and something noticeably aberrant like a limp, bad teeth, a skin disorder or yes, even a stutter. I wish the BAU would release what they're thinking because Douglas hit Hansen square on. With this depth of description someone might immediately recognize him. Robert Hansen - Wikipedia Amazon.com: The Butcher Baker: True Story of Robert Hansen the Human Hunter (True Crime Explicit, Book 2) (Audible Audio Edition): Genoveva Ortiz, True Crime Seven, Michael Goodrick, Sea Vision Publishing, LLC: Audible Books & Originals This book is free with Kindle Unlimited, not great writing but totally terrifying

Some of Hansen's victims were hookers, ppl who wouldn't be missed so much. Anchorage was bonkers during the mid to late 70's with the influx of pipeline construction workers. There were so many men, so very much money being paid to get the pipeline done as quickly as possible. This drew a lot of prostitutes to Anchorage, the era is famous for the raucous nightlife in the topless bars in ANC. There is an excellent, cold, dark movie about Hansen's crimes. Even after the one lady got away and ran to the highway, there was no proof he had killed anyone. The movie, Frozen Ground, details the race to find the souvenirs that Hansen had kept from his victims. Very interesting case with his psychological profile that debbiediablo described above, a uniquely Alaskan serial murder with guns, hunting of women, small planes, a guy who had been esteemed, and the final unraveling.

 

[gizmobtj]

This makes me wonder :
The time of death per LE is 03:00 - 04:00. Since K and M's last known awake hours were 02:52 while they texted , they couldn't have been killed at 03:00. So I wonder if LE starts the time at 03:00 as they have found out from the beginning that E and X, who arrived at the house at 01:45, had been killed first . And then the perp should have waited a while and went on to upstairs ? Or does LE state like that for another reason ?

Based on where they were doing swabs on the second floor common area, they may be presuming no one would walk by that and not notice

 

[CityKid]

I don’t understand the importance of the bar video to the murder since LE still stands by their decision to clear JD as a suspect. They must have a pretty good evidence supporting their decision to eliminate the ex from the pool of possible poi.

I think anyone who is positively identified in that bar video will be requestioned, especially if their presence at the bar at that time is not in concordance with a previously stated alibi. No one has been cleared; some people are believed not to be involved "at this time," per LE.

 

[z0mer]

I think anyone who is positively identified in that bar video will be requestioned, especially if their presence at the bar at that time is not in concordance with a previously stated alibi. No one has been cleared; some people are believed not to be involved "at this time," per LE.

I'm sure LE already got footage of the Corner Club shortly after the murders

 

[rsd1200]

My questions:

1-How does LE know that E&K got home around 1:45?
2-If CC photo is legit, why didn’t JD leave with M&K?
3-I find it hard to believe that they are looking for the Elantra based on it simply passing on Taylor. Was it the tire marks that matched? Is there a video of it driving up and parking?
4-On the PR, they ask for pics/vids/SM from the night that adds context. IMO, someone has told them something that happened that evening (not sure E&X or L&M) and LE knows there is digital evidence of something that points to potential motive and needs the Dig Evidence to corroborate - and does it have to do with E&X/Sig Chi or K&M/CC - Underage drinking seems a little small for people to hold back. Drugs? Cheating? A Fight? Theft? Bullying SM?
5-Was HG really trying to protect them? From what/who?

1. Possibly caught on the neighboring Doorcam. Their ride dropped them off and this has been verified.
2. JD didn't live with them. Possibly had other places to go things to do. He's an EX.
3. I do not. It may have dna inside from being loaned out. The killers and the victims'. The owner may have a vehicle of a type that they are looking for, but think their friend/family member, could never do such a thing so are hesitant to come forward and put them in the spotlight. Fear of being seen as an accessory, an accomplice, etc...
4. Same call went out in another case I followed. They want as much evidence as possible placing people, things, activities leading up to the murders, and immediately after. (photos are more convincing at trial, too). IOTW, if you were doing something you'd normally get into trouble for, get kicked out for, they are not concerned with that activity.
5. HG ?

JM2¢

 

[CityKid]

That was probably near the TOP of LE's list and no doubt they have interviewed/vetted ALL neighbors within ear shot of the house. Any neighbors who would be bold enough to kill like this, would be putting themselves in the cross hairs of intense LE scrutiny 100%. I suspect LE is still actively exploring this angle at the present time. My personal take on this>>> An irate neighbor wouldn't attempt a bloody killing like this...just FAR TOO RISKY and BRUTAL. There are a myriad of other *solutions* to solve a problem a like this ...I need not elaborate. MOO

Agreed. And if this is, according to many reports and LE, a long-standing party house, the problem isn't eliminated by murdering the current residents.

 

[pandaknows]

I think the father was referring to one of the last messages she sent, meant literally. He was not saying that one of the last messages she sent while she was home with us, and then there were other "!ast" messages at the last before she died. I can see how others have different opinions. But that's mine.

Meanwhile the mother or sister was referring to K trying to get a hold of him while she was home. Which makes sense now that we know they were just breaking up, or had just broken up. But one of them, iirc the mother/sister (sorry I just can't read that again) said "she wanted him to come over", para. While I thought only kG was gone from school and at home, but not necessarily other students were home where she was. So without sleuthing anyone, I don't know if the mother/sister was referring to the guy coming over to K's parents's home, or if she was referring to the guy coming over to K's Moscow home. Imo she was referring to coming over to the nearby Moscow home. Another of the last calls.

Good point about to which home mother/sister was referring to when KG "wanted him to come over". Interesting how that opens the door to other questions. I'm also reminded of Jennifer Dulos' and Gabby Petito's cases (referencing Websleuther Caroline Lagos' post), sensing that KG may not have wanted anything of the sort. Those words were never mentioned as being recorded in voicemail or text by KG, just going by police updates. MOO.

 

[Montecore1]

5. HG ?

Hoodie Guy

 

[stayclassy]

“Investigators believe someone has information that adds context to what occurred on the night of the murders and continue requesting additional pictures, video, and social media content.

I wonder what context they are looking for in particular?

What would the video/photo social media content show?

Someone being at a venue when they said they weren't?

Someone hanging around a person not regularly in that immediate group of friends - an outsider visiting randomly that day?

Someone staying at a person's house that is within walking/bike riding distance to where the murders happened. MOO

I feel like "context" means the investigators are saying to the students, residents and perp(s), "We know what happened, we know who is plausibly capable and very likely guilty of this crime BUT we are still trying to understand WHY."

Motive is important when it comes to questioning, getting to a confession, or in a trial, getting to a conviction.

Just my opinion.

 

[CityKid]

Especially since Ethan’s triplet brother is in the same frat. It’s preposterous for people to think that Ethan’s brother would pick his frat brothers over his triplet brother. IMO.

It wouldn't have to be Sigma Chi.