ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #11

[haven71]

Not to antagonize you, wondering 25.

But I wonder if he was wearing socks and how that would affect his boots falling off. I think a sweaty foot would adhere more to the boot than a sock. On the other hand, perhaps the socks could be thick enough to make a boot less likely to fall off.

I'm sitting on my couch barefoot, too lazy to go do a test myself.

JMO

 

[wenwe4]

I can't believe that no trace of this little guy hasn't been found by now! Honestly, I am thinking this is leading more to stranger abduction for this very fact. If DeOrr had wandered or animal involvement - there would have been some evidence left behind - but if a human scooped him up . . . not so much.

Have they put up posters, billboards, social media in the area with this child's picture? Why not flood the regional area with the child's image - maybe someone recently acquired a child. If DeOrr was abducted - I believe people local to area are the ones that know about fishing and camping at Leadore. (I doubt it's on a national list for good fishing/camping).

Do the FBI agree with the local LEO about the initial rule out of stranger abduction? Why has there been very little coverage of this case in MSM? I suggest plastering northern Utah, western Wyoming & Montana, northern Nevada, and southern Idaho with this child's image everywhere.

 

[ReadySet]

Hiring a lawyer doesn't preclude you from talking with the police. I know of cases where the lawyer sat in on questioning and may or may not tell their client not to answer certain questions. LE knows the game too. They know you can have a lawyer and still be innocent. Quite frankly, i wouldn't care what the public perception was.. or LE's perception was. Their job is to find my missing child. You certainly can COOPERATE WITH LE EVEN IF YOU RETAIN LEGAL COUNSEL. The 2 things are not mutually exclusive. JMO

I have learned that reading at Websleuths and posting in my head for the last 5 years, is not the same as being a member and actually posting

Regarding my post about innocent parents not needing a lawyer, I admit I am biased by the Kyron Horman case, and the defacto suspect lawyering up after 3 weeks. And in that case, the defacto suspect did stop talking. I was not aware of the mother of Sommer Thompson obtaining a lawyer. I really appreciate that information.

What I was trying to get at, and did a poor job doing so, was that if having a lawyer impeded the investigation in any way, and stopped the parents from giving any information that would be helpful, that concerns me. I would hope that parents would weigh what their lawyer has to say, but make their own decisions about sharing information, even if their lawyer advises against it.

I appreciate the other viewpoints and information; it forced me to examine my biases.

 

[wondering25]

I can't believe that no trace of this little guy hasn't been found by now! Honestly, I am thinking this is leading more to stranger abduction for this very fact. If DeOrr had wandered or animal involvement - there would have been some evidence left behind - but if a human scooped him up . . . not so much.

Have they put up posters, billboards, social media in the area with this child's picture? Why not flood the regional area with the child's image - maybe someone recently acquired a child. If DeOrr was abducted - I believe people local to area are the ones that know about fishing and camping at Leadore. (I doubt it's on a national list for good fishing/camping).

Do the FBI agree with the local LEO about the initial rule out of stranger abduction? Why has there been very little coverage of this case in MSM? I suggest plastering northern Utah, western Wyoming & Montana, northern Nevada, and southern Idaho with this child's image everywhere.

If the baby was abducted and murdered then no one is going to report a new kid on the block because there isnt one. IMO, no one is going to report a new kid on the block anyway. People move all the time. i move from here to a home in another state with my 2 and 1/2 year old son. How are you going to know this isnt my son? Maybe I even dye his hair.. give him a crew cut.. really.. are you going to stick your neck out and call in a tip about the new neighbor with the little boy who just moved in? NOTHING IS CONFIDENTIAL in this world.. NOTHING. I will find out eventually who called this tip in and then you will have to live with my wrath in your neighborhood for falsely reporting me.

People shrug their shoulders and move on with their lives. They donate to the local food bank and give to the salvation army at Christmas and think they are doing their part. The public at large just isnt going to step up. JMO

Just my opinion on all of this.

 

[charminglane]

I'm wondering if the cafe or minimart has wifi?

 

[ILOKAL]

There's been so much discussion about searching for little Deorr, his clothing, his boots, and his little toy car so I thought it might be helpful to take a look at the forest. Although I doubt any of these photos are from the forest where little Deorr disappeared, forests in general have many things in common, and these should give us a pretty good idea of what that forest looked like. Here's a look:

http://www.fcps.edu/islandcreekes/ecology/forest.htm

 

[pepelepolecat]

I'm wondering if the cafe or minimart has wifi?

That's a really interesting question. I haven't heard if either does.

 

[Rayemonde]

I, for one, am sick of the entire boot discussion. I don't care if he was barefoot. No one has bothered to mention that reportedly a little toy truck was also supposedly in the baby's pocket and that hasnt been discovered either. He was wearing a jacket and pajama bottoms too.. ZILCH NADA NOTHING found. Tell me.. has anyone heard that a pet of any kind was also at the campsite? Not trying to start a rumor.. just a question.. MOO

Just my opinion on all of this.

I haven't heard anything about a pet, not even as rumour.

The toy truck was supposed to be in his pocket, you're right. It might still be out there somewhere to find. I hope LE used metal detectors in their search.


To be honest, if parents lawyer up immediately when their child goes missing, I would find that very suspicious. If they went to make a missing person report with a lawyer in tow telling them not to answer certain questions, that would just scream foul play to me.

If they lawyer up after LE or even just the public starts accusing them of foul play though - I think that would just reinforce whatever opinion I already held about the case. If I thought the parents were innocent I would applaud them for protecting themselves, and if I thought they were guilty I would think they were trying to get away with something.

When the McCann's lawyered up, where I live in the UK at least most people still supported them. There was a feeling that the police were tring to frame the Mccanns, and people were still supportive of them and didn't find it suspicious that they lawyered up.

 

[ILOKAL]

I'm wondering if the cafe or minimart has wifi?

I never thought about that charming. But that's a good question. What are your thoughts regarding if they do?

 

[neesaki]

There's been so much discussion about searching for little Deorr, his clothing, his boots, and his little toy car so I thought it might be helpful to take a look at the forest. Although I doubt any of these photos are from the forest where little Deorr disappeared, forests in general have many things in common, and these should give us a pretty good idea of what that forest looked like. Here's a look:

http://www.fcps.edu/islandcreekes/ecology/forest.htm

How beautiful. Makes me miss hiking even more! :gaah:

 

[eileenhawkeye]

I haven't heard anything about a pet, not even as rumour.

The toy truck was supposed to be in his pocket, you're right. It might still be out there somewhere to find. I hope LE used metal detectors in their search.


To be honest, if parents lawyer up immediately when their child goes missing, I would find that very suspicious. If they went to make a missing person report with a lawyer in tow telling them not to answer certain questions, that would just scream foul play to me.

If they lawyer up after LE or even just the public starts accusing them of foul play though - I think that would just reinforce whatever opinion I already held about the case. If I thought the parents were innocent I would applaud them for protecting themselves, and if I thought they were guilty I would think they were trying to get away with something.

When the McCann's lawyered up, where I live in the UK at least most people still supported them. There was a feeling that the police were tring to frame the Mccanns, and people were still supportive of them and didn't find it suspicious that they lawyered up.

I think people will judge parents who hire lawyers harshly if they stop cooperating.

 

[kammiemc]

I forget what poster was asking yesterday about distance from camper to tree line....but I was reading a really early article and it said they were searching the area where DeOrr went missing, including the creek, which was was 15 yards from the campground. (I don't know where the creek is relation to the tree line, but it might give a general idea of distance put to the maps.)

 

[kammiemc]

I think people will judge parents who hire lawyers harshly if they stop cooperating.

That's a good point! Non-cooperation is always suspicious, no matter what. But if people are cooperating and have a lawyer, I'd hope they wouldn't be judged, but heck, we live in a judgmental world.

 

[kammiemc]

I have learned that reading at Websleuths and posting in my head for the last 5 years, is not the same as being a member and actually posting

Regarding my post about innocent parents not needing a lawyer, I admit I am biased by the Kyron Horman case, and the defacto suspect lawyering up after 3 weeks. And in that case, the defacto suspect did stop talking. I was not aware of the mother of Sommer Thompson obtaining a lawyer. I really appreciate that information.

What I was trying to get at, and did a poor job doing so, was that if having a lawyer impeded the investigation in any way, and stopped the parents from giving any information that would be helpful, that concerns me. I would hope that parents would weigh what their lawyer has to say, but make their own decisions about sharing information, even if their lawyer advises against it.

I appreciate the other viewpoints and information; it forced me to examine my biases.

This makes perfect sense! As did your post that no innocent parents would lawyer up. I agree that there are a lot of variables. If my kid is discovered missing and the first thing I do is call a lawyer and don't talk to the LE and do everything I can to help in the investigation.....Yikes.
But if I've got fingers pointing at me still two months later, that could feel threatening on top of the trauma of losing a child. (sad and scared!)

 

[renarde]

http://www.people.com/article/social-media-controversy-over-missing-boy

DeOrr's grandfather, DeOrr Sr., was interviewed again recently.

 

[kammiemc]

All LE has to do is run a vehicle check on all fairly new black Rubicons in the state and surrounding states and x-ref to pictures on driver licenses to find the mystery man as described so they can question him. I wonder if this is being done. From all the publicity the guy has received he is probably long gone by now anyhow - sold vehicle or left state or whatever - if he had anything to do with the disappearance.

Or another possibility is that LE followed up on the staring man in Leadore and he was some local with an alibi, so why would they drag this guy's name through the mud when it was nothing.

And the staring guy in the rubicon in Swan Valley was a separate event, different guy.

If LE followed up on these guys, they didn't see enough to issue an AA in either case. If they didn't follow up I'd have to think that's because FBI doesn't think those sightings are relevant based on what they've learned in the investigation to date.

My gut says that the PI planted the idea in DK's mind that there was Rubicon in the fries parking lot in Leadore after he got the tip from Swan Valley lady.

I think any PI would have asked long ago about what cars were in the parking lot when the man was staring and he would have already known if there was a Rube or not. (Not, I'm thinking.)

It's not that I don't think stranger danger is a possibility. I just think the staring man, in particular, is a red herring.

ETA: These are just possibilities. I wouldn't be in disbelief if the FBI comes back with an arrest for the staring man--just sharing my instinct. My mind is open!

 

[kammiemc]

I can think of some others, but since mention of them might cause an all out OT war to erupt, I think I'll refrain from naming them.

Now you have me curious as to what cases might cause a war to erupt! (CA?)

 

[Rayemonde]

http://www.people.com/article/social-media-controversy-over-missing-boy

DeOrr's grandfather, DeOrr Sr., was interviewed again recently.

Thank for the link - I missed this article! It's dated 17th September.

As it turns out, the boy found at the motel was returned to his mother hours later, police say, but news hasn’t deterred DeOrr’s grandfather.

"They say they found the boy's mother but I don't think they did. If you compare pictures, it's DeOrr – it's really him."

Kunz says he's not the only one who agrees with this theory. "My whole family also thinks he's DeOrr. It doesn't make a difference what people are saying, that's my grandson."...

DeOrr's grandfather said that he heard that a man in a van who fled the scene had dropped off the boy at the motel. But, Hallock says this wasn't the case.

"There's absolutely no connection to the [Kunz] case," Hallock says as he confirms that there is no mention of a man in any of the deputies' reports.

This news is the last thing the Kunz family wants to hear. After months of trying to find leads, DeOrr's grandfather says they are still "beginning at square one."

"We have nothing concrete," Kunz continues. "He just disappeared."

 

[wenwe4]

I just experienced a tragic incident that has me thinking differently about this case. Our 6 lb chihuahua woke us up @ 3am to go potty (like every night) and we let her out and after 15 min she hadn't come back in (very unusual). Searched with flashlights in the woods, on the streets and all surrounding area, searched entire next 2 days - no luck. We found our pup deceased, approx 3 football fields away (straight line as bird flies) - over a steep cliff and apparently dumped in the lake.

We believe she was picked up by an eagle, osprey, or owl as many neighbors have been experiencing lost pets and one recent report of a large owl swooping within 5 or 6 feet of person with 35 lb dog on a leash. We also have coyotes in the area attacking chickens on people's property.

I believe if foulplay by animal (or fowl) as involved here - something would have shown up. Unless that specific area was never searched - no one detected any decomp smell - no clues have been identified.

 

[kammiemc]

I just experienced a tragic incident that has me thinking differently about this case. Our 6 lb chihuahua woke us up @ 3am to go potty (like every night) and we let her out and after 15 min she hadn't come back in (very unusual). Searched with flashlights in the woods, on the streets and all surrounding area, searched entire next 2 days - no luck. We found our pup deceased, approx 3 football fields away (straight line as bird flies) - over a steep cliff and apparently dumped in the lake.

We believe she was picked up by an eagle, osprey, or owl as many neighbors have been experiencing lost pets and one recent report of a large owl swooping within 5 or 6 feet of person with 35 lb dog on a leash. We also have coyotes in the area attacking chickens on people's property.

I believe if foulplay by animal (or fowl) as involved here - something would have shown up. Unless that specific area was never searched - no one detected any decomp smell - no clues have been identified.

So sorry for your loss! Dogs are such an important part of the family and it's so sad when they go--especially when it's a tragedy!!!!