ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #11

[Deleted member 718]

I'm also not sure where they were living. I have the impression that they lived with Grandpa Kunz in Montpelier up until spring 2015 but they were living in Idaho Falls when little Deorr disappeared. Not sure if they were living with Great Grandpa (Jessica's grandfather) or not. I seem to remember hearing something about him giving up his house and moving in with TBC. I think it was reported that he and IR used to be neighbors, but were no longer because GGP moved.

We have this from July 15. It sounds like a current living situation. I didn't realize it was in Montpelier. Interesting.

"DeOrr’s grandfather says he’s heartbroken over his missing grandson.

They've lived with me in my house for the past year and a half and he's my buddy. When he wants to take a nap he'll come up to me and say 'nap papa, nap papa,' so we'd lay down and take a nap. I’m so attached to him. I don't know what I'd do if we lost him. I just can't imagine going day to day without that little boy running around. I’m so sad. I’m just at a loss here.”

http://www.hlntv.com/article/2015/07/17/deorr-kunz-missing-family-fear-abducted

 

[kammiemc]

They did not go to the store on Thursday night, they went Friday morning. The way I understand it is that they left Idaho Falls around 6:30 - 7:00 pm, after getting home from work and getting things packed up for the weekend. They drove about 20-30 miles towards Leadore and stopped for diesel for DK's truck, then drove up to Leadore and down to the campsite. They did not stop in town on the way to the campground and arrived around 9:30.

This is what I thought the sheriff and dep said too (tho couldn't recall if they stated a departure time from IF). They were asked if the parents went anywhere else beyond the Fri AM store outing and only provided the diesel stop. But I can understand the spec that perhaps the sheriff did not know about--or at least didn't publicly share--any other stops that happened. (My mind is so open it hurts!)


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[kammiemc]

We have this from July 15. It sounds like a current living situation. I didn't realize it was in Montpelier. Interesting.

"DeOrr’s grandfather says he’s heartbroken over his missing grandson.

They've lived with me in my house for the past year and a half and he's my buddy. When he wants to take a nap he'll come up to me and say 'nap papa, nap papa,' so we'd lay down and take a nap. I’m so attached to him. I don't know what I'd do if we lost him. I just can't imagine going day to day without that little boy running around. I’m so sad. I’m just at a loss here.”

http://www.hlntv.com/article/2015/07/17/deorr-kunz-missing-family-fear-abducted

And heartbreaking.


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[Cardinal47]

They did not go to the store on Thursday night, they went Friday morning. The way I understand it is that they left Idaho Falls around 6:30 - 7:00 pm, after getting home from work and getting things packed up for the weekend. They drove about 20-30 miles towards Leadore and stopped for diesel for DK's truck, then drove up to Leadore and down to the campsite. They did not stop in town on the way to the campground and arrived around 9:30.

Yes you are right. They did go to the store on Friday but isn't it also possible they also went on Thursday.

I don't believe we have ever had a timeline from the sheriff. Just things we picked up here and there.

We thought they arrived Friday but found out later they arrived Thursday night.

So isn't it possible they left earlier and did go to the store twice?

Thursday night and Friday morning.

Until the sheriff gives out a timeline everything is possible.

MOO

 

[Cardinal47]

Not even slightly a challenge, but just because I have no idea, did the sheriff ever say what time the parents say they left IF, or was it just left at an arrival time at the campsite? A 5PM departure would make sense to me. (Even that has been thought to be quite late to some people here who camp.) I totally agree that since the timeline was not originally known (or at least not shared with us) to start Thurs night, we still might know everything about that night.

ETA: I can say for sure we don't know everything!!! We hardly know anything!

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I am kind of curious. Do you happen to remember where we did finally learn where they left from, what time and when they arrived?

I don't think the sheriff ever told but I am confusing myself!

 

[Cardinal47]

We have this from July 15. It sounds like a current living situation. I didn't realize it was in Montpelier. Interesting.

"DeOrr’s grandfather says he’s heartbroken over his missing grandson.

They've lived with me in my house for the past year and a half and he's my buddy. When he wants to take a nap he'll come up to me and say 'nap papa, nap papa,' so we'd lay down and take a nap. I’m so attached to him. I don't know what I'd do if we lost him. I just can't imagine going day to day without that little boy running around. I’m so sad. I’m just at a loss here.”

http://www.hlntv.com/article/2015/07/17/deorr-kunz-missing-family-fear-abducted

So they did leave from Montpliere. Interesting.

 

[ReadySet]

Idaho Falls to campground, about 2 hrs. 30 min. (with no stops) So 7:30pm.

Campground to store and back: 1 hr 20 min., not allowing for doing anything in town. So now at 8:50pm

Putting in time to get diesel, time in town, allowing for traveling with toddler, about 30 min? That takes you to 9:20pm

Just estimating, JMO . We don't know where they went when.

They did not go to the store on Thursday night, they went Friday morning. The way I understand it is that they left Idaho Falls around 6:30 - 7:00 pm, after getting home from work and getting things packed up for the weekend. They drove about 20-30 miles towards Leadore and stopped for diesel for DK's truck, then drove up to Leadore and down to the campsite. They did not stop in town on the way to the campground and arrived around 9:30.

Right, I was just responding to a poster's hypothetical question.

 

[ReadySet]

We have this from July 15. It sounds like a current living situation. I didn't realize it was in Montpelier. Interesting.


"DeOrr’s grandfather says he’s heartbroken over his missing grandson.

They've lived with me in my house for the past year and a half and he's my buddy. When he wants to take a nap he'll come up to me and say 'nap papa, nap papa,' so we'd lay down and take a nap. I’m so attached to him. I don't know what I'd do if we lost him. I just can't imagine going day to day without that little boy running around. I’m so sad. I’m just at a loss here.”

http://www.hlntv.com/article/2015/07/17/deorr-kunz-missing-family-fear-abducted

Yes. And then there's this.

The child's parents, DeOrr Kunz Sr. and Jessica Mitchell, told authorities they left their home in Idaho Falls on July 10 for a weekend camping trip that included their son, as well as the mother's grandfather and his friend.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/07/31/us-usa-idaho-toddler-idUSKCN0Q52OP20150731

Who knows?

 

[Cardinal47]

Yes. And then there's this.

The child's parents, DeOrr Kunz Sr. and Jessica Mitchell, told authorities they left their home in Idaho Falls on July 10 for a weekend camping trip that included their son, as well as the mother's grandfather and his friend.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/07/31/us-usa-idaho-toddler-idUSKCN0Q52OP20150731

Who knows?

Who knows is right. Chasing our tails.

 

[kammiemc]

Right, I was just responding to a poster's hypothetical question.

I got it! I'm with ya! We don't even know what we don't know! [emoji4]
I do feel like the sheriff has been holding things close to the vest and gave the public the bare minimum info in order to not address the obvious elephant in the room--why is the FBI report so critical?
I read an article the other night, one of the earliest (I am sure it has been linked here repeatedly, but if anyone wants me to find it I will do so once on my computer) in which the sheriff was full-throttle on an exhaustive search for the little boy in the area, but he did say that they would eventually be investigating this from every angle.
IMO, from the get-go, the professionals in this case thought something was fishy. Maybe even really fishy. Maybe even blatantly fishy. Even so, he could not ignore that there was a chance that that little boy could be somewhere on the mountain, so he approached it as if it were a 100% chance and left no stone unturned.


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[kammiemc]

This is just a general comment, but, at least for myself, I sometimes add to the discussion without it necessarily being a counterpoint to the direct post I am responding to! But hopefully not full non sequiturs!


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[ReadySet]

I got it! I'm with ya! We don't even know what we don't know! [emoji4]
I do feel like the sheriff has been holding things close to the vest and gave the public the bare minimum info in order to not address the obvious elephant in the room--why is the FBI report so critical?
I read an article the other night, one of the earliest (I am sure it has been linked here repeatedly, but if anyone wants me to find it I will do so once on my computer) in which the sheriff was full-throttle on an exhaustive search for the little boy in the area, but he did say that they would eventually be investigating this from every angle.
IMO, from the get-go, the professionals in this case thought something was fishy. Maybe even really fishy. Maybe even blatantly fishy. Even so, he could not ignore that there was a chance that that little boy could be somewhere on the mountain, so he approached it as if it were a 100% chance and left no stone unturned.


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Yes. Exactly. You said it well. Possibly as soon as LE arrived, they were concerned, but how could they not do an all out search? If there was even a fraction of a percent chance that little Deorr was there, they had to do an exhaustive search. But they had to do a parallel investigation. JMO Oops, I guess I just said exactly what you did

 

[kammiemc]

I am kind of curious. Do you happen to remember where we did finally learn where they left from, what time and when they arrived?

I don't think the sheriff ever told but I am confusing myself!

I think in the sheriff's interview? I am going to get in trouble for being on the computer, so I can't check. But I believe that it was it, and perhaps the accompanying article. !

 

[ReadySet]

Here's another source referring to the family traveling from Idaho Falls.

When asked if the family was anywhere else during the trip, Bowerman said they stopped for diesel fuel traveling from Idaho Falls to Leadore, but the gas station doesn’t have surveillance video either.

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/08/lemhi-sheriff-opens-up-about-deorr-kunz-case/

Regarding Montpelier, IMO they didn't start their trip from there. If they did, it would add an additional 2 hours to the trip, as it's about 137 miles south of IF.

 

[Rayemonde]

I got it! I'm with ya! We don't even know what we don't know! [emoji4]
I do feel like the sheriff has been holding things close to the vest and gave the public the bare minimum info in order to not address the obvious elephant in the room--why is the FBI report so critical?
I read an article the other night, one of the earliest (I am sure it has been linked here repeatedly, but if anyone wants me to find it I will do so once on my computer) in which the sheriff was full-throttle on an exhaustive search for the little boy in the area, but he did say that they would eventually be investigating this from every angle.
IMO, from the get-go, the professionals in this case thought something was fishy. Maybe even really fishy. Maybe even blatantly fishy. Even so, he could not ignore that there was a chance that that little boy could be somewhere on the mountain, so he approached it as if it were a 100% chance and left no stone unturned.

He did make that comment about the parents being "solid" and completely co-operative and everything, though. If anything, from what they said I thought LE were leaning towards IR as the main POI. But LE did search the parents' house - I presume that the family consented to that rather than a warrant being issued. In which case LE wouldn't be able to seize computers, phones etc.

I'm guessing (hoping?) that LE currently have people under surveillance, maybe have phones tapped, etc. Rather than just sitting back and twiddling their thumbs until an "FBI Report" lands on their desk. The FBI have hopefully given them some pointers on things to do and things to look for.

 

[kammiemc]

He did make that comment about the parents being "solid" and completely co-operative and everything, though. If anything, from what they said I thought LE were leaning towards IR as the main POI. But LE did search the parents' house - I presume that the family consented to that rather than a warrant being issued. In which case LE wouldn't be able to seize computers, phones etc.

I'm guessing (hoping?) that LE currently have people under surveillance, maybe have phones tapped, etc. Rather than just sitting back and twiddling their thumbs until an "FBI Report" lands on their desk. The FBI have hopefully given them some pointers on things to do and things to look for.

I agree, Rayemonde. (I'm being super careful to note that I am adding, not breaking the theory!) I think for the sheriff to rule out basically everything in the public eye, yet name everyone at the campsite a POI and call in the FBI and say that the this report was critical meant that the sheriff had reason to suspect something he didn't want to tell us. Some people might think that is ineptitude on his part; I (and at least some others) think it's cleverness.

It would be crazy loco to think he is sitting back and twiddling his thumbs--what kind of madman sheriff would do that? Now, he might have other responsibilities to attend to besides this case, since he's the sheriff of a small team, but I wouldn't fault him for that.

ETA: I have no idea about IR. Or anyone else. Or a mtn lion. But I can read people fairly well, so I have a little trust in that the sheriff knows SOMETHING

 

[kammiemc]

He did make that comment about the parents being "solid" and completely co-operative and everything, though. If anything, from what they said I thought LE were leaning towards IR as the main POI. But LE did search the parents' house - I presume that the family consented to that rather than a warrant being issued. In which case LE wouldn't be able to seize computers, phones etc.

I'm guessing (hoping?) that LE currently have people under surveillance, maybe have phones tapped, etc. Rather than just sitting back and twiddling their thumbs until an "FBI Report" lands on their desk. The FBI have hopefully given them some pointers on things to do and things to look for.

Sorry for responding again. I realized I didn't respond to your main point!
A team (read that at least two) of FBI agents were sent in. The behavioral and physical evidence were passed over to them. They were going to re-interview people. This was not a "double-checking the investigation" kind of thing. I wouldn't doubt any kind of sophistication that is being thrown at this case.
Yes, the sheriff didn't try to raise eyebrows over turning this into a criminal investigation. Instead he did so, very eloquently in his own way, if you ask me.

 

[Cardinal47]

I wonder just what Idaho Falls LE are doing? I think the Sheriff and them are working together.

Since the family are living in Montpliere and grandpa is in Idaho Falls that says something. Are both GGP of the fishing trip and IR both in Idaho Falls?

 

[TeaTime]

kammie you make a lot of sense. If Sheriff was suspicious that he was not getting the true story from the 'witnesses' or believed that their version of events simply did not make sense, it would explain a lot of his statements and a lot of what has transpired since July 10.

They are 'good', 'solid', 'cooperative', 'highly unlikely' to be an abduction, '99%' sure the child was there, 'anything' is possible, '100% sure he is not in the water', having FBI look at some 'physical and behavioral evidence'. It could lead one to believe that he has been patiently waiting for affirmation of what he thinks happened, while not letting on to what his suspicions are.

But, it could be that after his exhaustive efforts he needed another set of eyes to review his investigation and some forensic work done so as to leave no stone unturned.

I believe the parents and also that an unknown person took this child and his boots. I refuse to believe that his parents know what happened to him and are lying.

Just my opinion.

 

[skinnycat]

I wish they would release DeOrr Sr's 911 call, I would like to know how long of a call it was, the questions that the operator asked, DeOrr Sr's answers.