ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #11

[Rayemonde]

I am still confused by the 'no search'.

Even if DeOrr was eaten by Mountain Lions or Bears there would be some trace.

Drag marks, blood, bones, boots or clothes. Something to tell the tale of what might have happened to this child.

But not a trace and nobody allowed to look for those clues.

Not after two weeks, though. After two weeks it's possible there would be no trace left, even the clothes and boots could have been eaten or buried by something, or washed miles away. The metal toy car he had in his pocket should still be around somewhere, though.

I'm not convinced that LE have really forbidden people from searching, either... There were lots of volunteer searchers to start with and there may still be now for all we know. One random go.fundme search says LE told them to call it off, but we don't know if that's true, and even if it is true LE might have had a reason to call off that particular search only.

ETA Wolves eat and fully digest bone. Any wild boars in the area? They are quick to scavenge all sorts of things.
Cotton clothes and other natural fibres can decompose very very quickly. Rubber boots can too. A fleece top made of artificial material would not decompose quickly, but could be all chewed/ shredded and mixed in with leaf litter and impossible to find now. Plastic lasts a long, long time though. If the boots were plastic, they should still be around somewhere even if they've been chewed/ shredded or passed through an animal's digestive system. But good luck spotting them after all this time

 

[pepelepolecat]

Well my response to that would be 'read my earlier post'. This sheriff is quite clever in his answers.

When he said "When he chuckled and said he didn't know if Leadore had any cameras " he could very well explain it by saying 'if they put one in today, I don't know'.

Or he could talk about hidden cameras.

That's how he gets us! Personally I think he's fooling with us and not going to give anything up.

MOO

I'll sit on this bench. I think he was being cagey with his response about the cameras, which makes me think that he's seen something on a camera that has pinged his hink-o-meter. What that could be, I don't know. Asking about and watching the footage of any area cameras is simply the bare minimum of following the family's movements on that last day and identifying anyone/anything even the least bit odd or abnormal.

Speculation, my opinion.

 

[wondering25]

I normally agree with you, but my thoughts/guesses/assumptions are really different on this one.

What you are saying would also require that FBI is clueless and incompetent. If they believed there was a chance of abduction, and probably even if not, I am sure they would review any surveillance available to them because I assume they are smart like that. Or at least of average intelligence.

The LE and the FBI are not going crazy screaming out abduction, but that doesn't mean they are wrong about that, or not doing their jobs. If they know that something happened to the toddler other than stranger abduction, encouraging searches, putting out alerts, etc., now THAT would be stupid.



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IMO, the FBI came too late to the dance..several weeks after the baby went missing.. The campsite was open and unmanned for almost 2 hours until LE got there. We know that someone was able to spread cremains during an active search, also. So, THEY got in close enough. Anyone could have slipped in and out of there. Naming the 4 campers as POI (because they were there when the baby disappeared) doesnt make sense. i am in Yankee stadium and someone gets murdered. Am I a poi? Every possible scenario cant be excluded.. if it is.. then baby Deorr was never there and that has been excluded. I have always felt he never made it back from the store in Leadore..or someone abducted him. LE is good with the parents and GGP.. Ir is truthful, the baby should have been found after the first day if he wandered.. he doesnt think it was a wild animal.. Given the proven ability of the dogs the baby should have been found.. body would have floated up if in the water.. divers, sonar, heat tracking planes.. all zero. He doesnt believe it was an abduction and has said he cant chase down everyone who stares at a baby (paraphrasing). All Righty, then. sheriff, .you have just removed yourself from ever solving this.. IMO, the mistakes were made those first 48 hours..as bolded. and he might be a heck of a nice guy but IMO the whole thing is hinky.

Everything I write is my opinion only.

 

[Cardinal47]

The sheriff did say that the cadaver dogs had been distracted by the cremains in the reservoir. Maybe that's why they didn't find a body.

You know I have thought about that a lot. Did they give up too soon. Even though the dogs were distracted that doesn't mean he didn't drown in that reservoir.

Seems the day they discovered cremains they stopped immediately. Was the whole reservoir searched thoroughly?

 

[kammiemc]

IMO, the FBI came too late to the dance..several weeks after the baby went missing.. The campsite was open and unmanned for almost 2 hours until LE got there. We know that someone was able to spread cremains during an active search, also. So, THEY got in close enough. Anyone could have slipped in and out of there. Naming the 4 campers as POI (because they were there when the baby disappeared) doesnt make sense. i am in Yankee stadium and someone gets murdered. Am I a poi? Every possible scenario cant be excluded.. if it is.. then baby Deorr was never there and that has been excluded. I have always felt he never made it back from the store in Leadore..or someone abducted him. LE is good with the parents and GGP.. Ir is truthful, the baby should have been found after the first day if he wandered.. he doesnt think it was a wild animal.. Given the proven ability of the dogs the baby should have been found.. body would have floated up if in the water.. divers, sonar, heat tracking planes.. all zero. He doesnt believe it was an abduction and has said he cant chase down everyone who stares at a baby (paraphrasing). All Righty, then. sheriff, .you have just removed yourself from ever solving this.. IMO, the mistakes were made those first 48 hours..as bolded. and he might be a heck of a nice guy but IMO the whole thing is hinky.

Everything I write is my opinion only.

Fair enough. I guess/hope we will see, IF we see/hear anything based on the FBI report.

 

[Cardinal47]

Not after two weeks, though. After two weeks it's possible there would be no trace left, even the clothes and boots could have been eaten or buried by something, or washed miles away. The metal toy car he had in his pocket should still be around somewhere, though.

I'm not convinced that LE have really forbidden people from searching, either... There were lots of volunteer searchers to start with and there may still be now for all we know. One random go.fundme search says LE told them to call it off, but we don't know if that's true, and even if it is true LE might have had a reason to call off that particular search only.

ETA Wolves eat and fully digest bone. Any wild boars in the area? They are quick to scavenge all sorts of things.
Cotton clothes and other natural fibres can decompose very very quickly. Rubber boots can too. A fleece top made of artificial material would not decompose quickly, but could be all chewed/ shredded and mixed in with leaf litter and impossible to find now. Plastic lasts a long, long time though. If the boots were plastic, they should still be around somewhere even if they've been chewed/ shredded or passed through an animal's digestive system. But good luck spotting them after all this time

Hailey Dunn was missing for two years.

http://www.ktxs.com/news/man-who-fo...ly-wont-receive-colorado-city-reward/20064154

Lloyd found Hailey Dunn’s remains March 16 near Lake JB Thomas in Scurry County.

Lloyd recently told KTXS that he found a skull, a tooth and a femur, along with blue warmups that Hailey Dunn, then 13, was believed to have been wearing when she disappeared in late December 2010.

According to the FBI website, Hailey Dunn was last seen wearing the blue sweat pants, along with a short-sleeved shirt and pink and white tennis shoes.

 

[charminglane]

This is what I questioned yesterday. Ten days (on July 20th) after little Deorr disappeared and (presumably) after the extensive searches were done, the sheriff said he couldn't rule anything out. Yet, on Aug 2nd (there might be an earlier date) he basically said he ruled EVERYTHING out and was taking the case in a different

I forgot to add . . . . How could he two weeks later rule everything out when no further searching had been done? It would have had to take more searches, IMO, to rule out lost in the woods and taken by animals to have made that change in his opinion.

Phone records most likely would have been back by then.

 

[Cardinal47]

I'm not sure how much the Idaho State Police are involved but they are taking tips.

"Bonneville County Sheriff Paul Wilde and Lemhi County Chief Deputy Steve Penner want to make sure all tips regarding the case are directed to the Idaho State Police Fusion Center.

http://www.localnews8.com/news/searchers-encourage-tips-be-directed-to-law-enforcement/35332252

I think they want tips sent to them rather than to the P.I. working for the family.

 

[ILOKAL]

I am still confused by the 'no search'.

Even if DeOrr was eaten by Mountain Lions or Bears there would be some trace.

Drag marks, blood, bones, boots or clothes. Something to tell the tale of what might have happened to this child.

But not a trace and nobody allowed to look for those clues.

I am reminded of Dylan Redwine and Hailey Dunn. Both had remains found out in the woods.

Not by searchers who BTW searched forever but by lonely hunters or a person walking their dog.

So my hope is that if there is anything at all hunting season is starting.

Seems like we expect hunters and walkers to find the remains of our lost ones and prison inmates to seek justice for heinous acts against loved ones.

Sigh...

Moo

And Holly Bobo

 

[Cardinal47]

IMO, the FBI came too late to the dance..several weeks after the baby went missing.. The campsite was open and unmanned for almost 2 hours until LE got there. We know that someone was able to spread cremains during an active search, also. So, THEY got in close enough. Anyone could have slipped in and out of there. Naming the 4 campers as POI (because they were there when the baby disappeared) doesnt make sense. i am in Yankee stadium and someone gets murdered. Am I a poi? Every possible scenario cant be excluded.. if it is.. then baby Deorr was never there and that has been excluded. I have always felt he never made it back from the store in Leadore..or someone abducted him. LE is good with the parents and GGP.. Ir is truthful, the baby should have been found after the first day if he wandered.. he doesnt think it was a wild animal.. Given the proven ability of the dogs the baby should have been found.. body would have floated up if in the water.. divers, sonar, heat tracking planes.. all zero. He doesnt believe it was an abduction and has said he cant chase down everyone who stares at a baby (paraphrasing). All Righty, then. sheriff, .you have just removed yourself from ever solving this.. IMO, the mistakes were made those first 48 hours..as bolded. and he might be a heck of a nice guy but IMO the whole thing is hinky.

Everything I write is my opinion only.

Especially a RSO that runs the restaurant in town and took food up to the searchers and was welcomed with open arms for her offerings by the group.

Didn't she have the loved one that passed and was cremated? I am not sure they ever said for sure she was the one but..two plus two.

Elementary dear Watson.

MOO

 

[kammiemc]

Phone records most likely would have been back by then.

I, too, am guessing that as time went on in the investigation, the sheriff got more information that might influence his decisions. At least I am thinking that's how it mostly works.


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[ILOKAL]

I too am guessing that as time when on in the investigation that the sheriff got more information that might influence his decisions. At least I thinking that's how it mostly works.

I doubt anyone would disagree that as time went on the sheriff might have gathered additional information, such as phone records, receipts, computer files, etc., but those things have been discussed.

But that's NOT the type of additional information that would tell us why, on July 20th, he didn't state that he had ruled out any occurrence within the forest, such as wandered off, drowned in water, or attacked by animals. In fact, on July 20th he stated he had NOT ruled out any of those things. Then there were no more searches . . . . Not by people . . . . Not by dogs . . . . Not by divers . . . . after July 20th, yet he waited until August 2nd to tell us he was ruling out wandered off, drowned in water, or taken by animals. He had no new information from searches between July 20th and August 2nd because there WERE no new searches. It "seems" like he outright lied on July 20th when he said he had NOT ruled out wandered off, drowned in water, or taken by animals. Why would he do that? Was he trying to placate us? Was it because he didn't want to be accused of jumping to judgment?

We also know he had already ruled out an abduction as early as July 13th.

I don't believe I've read another accounting of a person missing in a forest where LE had ruled out every possibility, no matter how unsuccessful the searches had been.

IMO

 

[Rayemonde]

I doubt anyone would disagree that as time went on the sheriff might have gathered additional information, such as phone records, receipts, computer files, etc., but those things have been discussed.

But that's NOT the type of additional information that would tell us why, on July 20th, he didn't state that he had ruled out any occurrence within the forest, such as wandered off, drowned in water, or attacked by animals. In fact, on July 20th he stated he had NOT ruled out any of those things. Then there were no more searches . . . . Not by people . . . . Not by dogs . . . . Not by divers . . . . after July 20th, yet he waited until August 2nd to tell us he was ruling out wandered off, drowned in water, or taken by animals. He had no new information from searches between July 20th and August 2nd because there WERE no new searches. It "seems" like he outright lied on July 20th when he said he had NOT ruled out wandered off, drowned in water, or taken by animals. Why would he do that? Was he trying to placate us? Was it because he didn't want to be accused of jumping to judgment?

We also know he had already ruled out an abduction as early as July 13th.

I don't believe I've read another accounting of a person missing in a forest where LE had ruled out every possibility, no matter how unsuccessful the searches had been.

Do you have a link showing that all searches stopped on July 20th? TIA.

 

[ILOKAL]

Do you have a link showing that all searches stopped on July 20th? TIA.

I had asked if anyone knew of any official searches after that date plus I didn't find anything that said there had been. I'll go add IMO just to make sure.

 

[kammiemc]

I doubt anyone would disagree that as time went on the sheriff might have gathered additional information, such as phone records, receipts, computer files, etc., but those things have been discussed.

But that's NOT the type of additional information that would tell us why, on July 20th, he didn't state that he had ruled out any occurrence within the forest, such as wandered off, drowned in water, or attacked by animals. In fact, on July 20th he stated he had NOT ruled out any of those things. Then there were no more searches . . . . Not by people . . . . Not by dogs . . . . Not by divers . . . . after July 20th, yet he waited until August 2nd to tell us he was ruling out wandered off, drowned in water, or taken by animals. He had no new information from searches between July 20th and August 2nd because there WERE no new searches. It "seems" like he outright lied on July 20th when he said he had NOT ruled out wandered off, drowned in water, or taken by animals. Why would he do that? Was he trying to placate us? Was it because he didn't want to be accused of jumping to judgment?

We also know he had already ruled out an abduction as early as July 13th.

I don't believe I've read another accounting of a person missing in a forest where LE had ruled out every possibility, no matter how unsuccessful the searches had been.

I understand what you're saying. I think there might be two ways to look at it.

The first would be, how can someone suddenly rule out something (mtn lion, drowning, etc.) when the evidence on the mountain has not changed? (No more searches.) I get that.

But I can also imagine a situation where it's not only the evidence on the mountain (or lack thereof) gained from searching the mountain that could evolve someone's POV to enable them to rule out mtn lion, drowning, etc., but perhaps the addition of new evidence gathered that would point specifically to a different fate strongly enough that it would almost entirely wipe out the possibility of something else having occurred--I don't want to speculate on what that could be, but if you think about other cases, that could be something like DNA evidence, for example.

I guess I am not assuming that he based his evolved opinion that mtn lion, drowning, etc. were unlikely solely on evidence (or lack thereof) on the mountain. Because that seems like that would be just one piece of the puzzle and other puzzle pieces would come into play to make the whole picture.

Hope I am making sense. Sorry if I'm am not understanding correctly.

ETA: I think that, just even like here on WS, people's opinions evolve as new evidence comes in. Maybe what we thought was true a month ago isn't true today, based on new info. But I don't think that means that someone is lying when they said what they believed based on less info. IMO.

 

[bornofposeidon]

I am still confused by the 'no search'.

Even if DeOrr was eaten by Mountain Lions or Bears there would be some trace.

Drag marks, blood, bones, boots or clothes. Something to tell the tale of what might have happened to this child.

But not a trace and nobody allowed to look for those clues.

I am reminded of Dylan Redwine and Hailey Dunn. Both had remains found out in the woods.

Not by searchers who BTW searched forever but by lonely hunters or a person walking their dog.

So my hope is that if there is anything at all hunting season is starting.

Seems like we expect hunters and walkers to find the remains of our lost ones and prison inmates to seek justice for heinous acts against loved ones.

Sigh...

Moo

Dylan's partial remains were found during an organized search; a comprised team of LE and search & rescue workers.

 

[ILOKAL]

I understand what you're saying. I think there might be two ways to look at it.

The first would be, how can someone suddenly rule out something (mtn lion, drowning, etc.) when the evidence on the mountain has not changed? (No more searches.) I get that.

But I can also imagine a situation where it's not only the evidence on the mountain (or lack thereof) gained from searching the mountain that could evolve someone's POV to enable them to rule out mtn lion, drowning, etc., but perhaps the addition of new evidence gathered that would point specifically to a different fate strongly enough that it would almost entirely wipe out the possibility of something else having occurred--I don't want to speculate on what that could be, but if you think about other cases, that could be something like DNA evidence, for example.

I guess I am not assuming that he based his opinion that mtn lion, drowning, etc. were unlikely based solely on evidence (or lack thereof) on the mountain. Because that seems like that would be just one piece of the puzzle and other puzzle pieces would come into play to make the whole picture.

Hope I am making sense. Sorry if I'm am not understanding correctly.

Just have a minute (2nd grade soccer game) but yes, you do understand me correctly and I don't disagree with what you have said. That "could" be the case but I somehow doubt it, though I don't rule it out, which must mean I rule it in, but not necessarily (I "think"). I will post more tonight and hope others may have ideas as to why he said what he said when he said it. LOL

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

Especially a RSO that runs the restaurant in town and took food up to the searchers and was welcomed with open arms for her offerings by the group.

Didn't she have the loved one that passed and was cremated? I am not sure they ever said for sure she was the one but..two plus two.

Elementary dear Watson.

MOO

It wasn't the RSO that spread the cremains, and I don't think the person that did spread them intended to purposely muck things up.

Regarding RSOs, I know an RSO that isn't an SO! It was just a case of a mucked up trial. If I was a searcher, I'd definitely welcome food from someone who is paying their dues.

 

[ReadySet]

Do you have a link showing that all searches stopped on July 20th? TIA.

I was trying to catch up on reading all the posts before I posted, but I'm going to jump in.

Where is the idea coming from that searches ended on July 20? Please correct me if I'm misunderstanding.

The searches went on for at least 3 weeks.

For the past three weeks, search teams have combed the remote backcountry to look for the boy.

http://q13fox.com/2015/08/02/fbi-investigators-join-search-for-missing-idaho-2-year-old-deorr-kunz/

 

[Eileen730]

I donr think he is there!
I have a feeling the sheriff has some ideas and
possibly some Ino be it video phone pings etc.

Sadly I don't think he will be found nor the person responsible caugnt.

How often do sex offenders take 2 yr old little boys?