ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #11

[ILOKAL]

I thank everyone for their diligence in locating and posting various articles, interviews and videos. I have read them all myself but it was good to have this refresher. Unfortunately, I still don't know what official searches took place after July 20th. As of the 20th, the sheriff says LE will still have a "presence" in the Timber Creek area and yes, I agree there is mention in various pieces of continuing searches. Just what were those searches? What did they include? Did they include search and recovery teams, tracking and cadaver dogs, skilled personnel? Were they official organized searches paid for by the County? Or were they volunteers who came and went at will and searched where they chose? The only volunteer searches I read about were all cancelled for any number of reasons. There is just nothing definitive regarding official searches having taken place after July 20th. It's similar to the sheriff's changing statements regarding what he has and has not ruled out on any given date. He has vasolated back and forth since the beginning regarding which possibilities he gives credence to and hasn't to this day seemed to make up his mind. We have all heard him say any number of times that he does NOT believe little Deorr was abducted, drowned, wandered off, or was taken by animals in any way. But then he backtracks and doesn't rule anything out. The family and IR are not suspects. They are POIs because they were there. Some are "good" "solid" and cooperating and another is being truthful.

Between July 10th and July 20th the sheriff gave detailed information on the type of searches that had taken place but there has been no such descriptions since. So what, if any, searches DID take place after July 20th, and what teams or groups were involved, what types of dogs were used, and whose payroll were these searches on? Just as many here want answers to their questions, I would like to have answers to these as well.

 

[kammiemc]

After the big flurry of news about the potential lead (jeep creep) it's been really silent... Nothing more from the PI - has he disappeared again? How long does it normally take for a sketch artist to render a drawing? (it's been a week).

How long does it take to do sketch of someone who doesn't actually exist or is a hybrid of two different people?! We could be looking at one crazy sketch pretty soon here. [emoji353]️

ETA: [emoji12]


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[KayCherry]

I thank everyone for their diligence in locating and posting various articles, interviews and videos. I have read them all myself but it was good to have this refresher. Unfortunately, I still don't know what official searches took place after July 20th. As of the 20th, the sheriff says LE will still have a "presence" in the Timber Creek area and yes, I agree there is mention in various pieces of continuing searches. Just what were those searches? What did they include? Did they include search and recovery teams, tracking and cadaver dogs, skilled personnel? Were they official organized searches paid for by the County? Or were they volunteers who came and went at will and searched where they chose? The only volunteer searches I read about were all cancelled for any number of reasons. There is just nothing definitive regarding official searches having taken place after July 20th. It's similar to the sheriff's changing statements regarding what he has and has not ruled out on any given date. He has vasolated back and forth since the beginning regarding which possibilities he gives credence to and hasn't to this day seemed to make up his mind. We have all heard him say any number of times that he does NOT believe little Deorr was abducted, drowned, wandered off, or was taken by animals in any way. But then he backtracks and doesn't rule anything out. The family and IR are not suspects. They are POIs because they were there. Some are "good" "solid" and cooperating and another is being truthful.

Between July 10th and July 20th the sheriff gave detailed information on the type of searches that had taken place but there has been no such descriptions since. So what, if any, searches DID take place after July 20th, and what teams or groups were involved, what types of dogs were used, and whose payroll were these searches on? Just as many here want answers to their questions, I would like to have answers to these as well.

good luck finding those answers, barely any info out and I don't think LE knows the answers either..

 

[ReadySet]

I thank everyone for their diligence in locating and posting various articles, interviews and videos. I have read them all myself but it was good to have this refresher. Unfortunately, I still don't know what official searches took place after July 20th. As of the 20th, the sheriff says LE will still have a "presence" in the Timber Creek area and yes, I agree there is mention in various pieces of continuing searches. Just what were those searches? What did they include? Did they include search and recovery teams, tracking and cadaver dogs, skilled personnel? Were they official organized searches paid for by the County? Or were they volunteers who came and went at will and searched where they chose? The only volunteer searches I read about were all cancelled for any number of reasons. There is just nothing definitive regarding official searches having taken place after July 20th. It's similar to the sheriff's changing statements regarding what he has and has not ruled out on any given date. He has vasolated back and forth since the beginning regarding which possibilities he gives credence to and hasn't to this day seemed to make up his mind. We have all heard him say any number of times that he does NOT believe little Deorr was abducted, drowned, wandered off, or was taken by animals in any way. But then he backtracks and doesn't rule anything out. The family and IR are not suspects. They are POIs because they were there. Some are "good" "solid" and cooperating and another is being truthful.

Between July 10th and July 20th the sheriff gave detailed information on the type of searches that had taken place but there has been no such descriptions since. So what, if any, searches DID take place after July 20th, and what teams or groups were involved, what types of dogs were used, and whose payroll were these searches on? Just as many here want answers to their questions, I would like to have answers to these as well.

What the public wants to know isn't always consistent with what is best for the investigation. Finding little Deorr is the most important thing.

 

[ILOKAL]

This in my reply to gliving's Post #903 above. For some reason I can't get the reply utton to work.

In the 9-11-15 article, the sheriff says:

"My Chief Deputy and several K9s were in the area Thursday."

Now . . . . Just what does that mean?

 

[ILOKAL]

How long does it take to do sketch of someone who doesn't actually exist or is a hybrid of two different people?! We could be looking at one crazy sketch pretty soon here. [emoji353]️

ETA: [emoji12]


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Isn't a LE sketch artist doing the sketch? I wonder what that might signify, if anything? (granted, that might be the only sketch artist in the area)

 

[Cardinal47]

I don't know, but according to one of the comments beneath the article, (I know, FWIW) it was a while ago, maybe a month? So by looking at how/where he was living in the video, I would speculate that he would have some strong concerns in order to justify spending the money on an attorney. I personally hate wasting money on attorneys as it's more often than not, well, a waste. So for me, I have to have a really good reason. JMO
Also, Sillybilly mentioned in an earlier post about the number of RSO's living in the area where IR lives. Just something to consider.

Attorneys..what can I say. But then again some people seem to have them on a retainer. One that comes to mind and is very comfortable with his attorney is Mark Redwine. He was always chasing his ex wife with his attorney and on the day his son Dylan went missing he said he was 'meeting with his attorney'. I think now with this new POI designation he received he is once again with his attorney.

The reason I am even bringing this up is some people seem to always have troubles and therefore have a close relationship with an attorney.

IR might be that kind of person. Doesn't he have a few ghosts in his closet per MSM?

Re the other SOS living in the hood. I bet they meet up and have a regular friend group.

I have always had in my mind that some of GGP or IR's friends might have visited the campsite to sit around the fire and chat. Unemployed folks do that. They look for places to go and I am sure GGP and IR made it known when and where they were going.

So just because the television reporter didn't ask the sheriff 'who else was there' doesn't mean somebody else wasn't there.

The mind wanders...

MOO

 

[ILOKAL]

Neesaki, I tried to say "Thanks" or reply to your Post #914 above, but my old, old iPad is giving me fits tonight. Anyway, I appreciate your post and agree with you about attorneys more often than not being a waste of hard-earned money. Although there are good, honest, hard-working, decent attorneys who won't rob you blind - these days they surely are far and few between and are very hard to find. Those numbers are simply dwindling

 

[kammiemc]

Isn't a LE sketch artist doing the sketch? I wonder what that might signify, if anything? (granted, that might be the only sketch artist in the area)

I don't recall either way, but I would think that the PI would be trying to get a criminal sketch artist, and not a regular illustrator, so probably someone who does work with LE or at least has in the past. I think it is quite a specific skill set. But I don't assume that it is an LE-endorsed lead if that's what you mean. Is the sketch even being done? Honestly, there is absolutely not a smidge of evidence that staring man 1 is staring man 2. I wonder whose description is the artist going to use, JM's or Swan Valley woman or both? And I am
Curious to find out if the PI will compare them and use his expertise to determine they are the same person? Seeing that LE is asking tips to go to them, I am curious if they are onboard with the PI. Hmmmm


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[neesaki]

I think the problem might be that they actually can't come out and say what they have NOT ruled out in public or what evidence they have given to the FBI (I guess we at least know it included an axe and coveralls!) I would guess that it might be less about playing games (not sure why LE would be motivated to do that unless it was to the direct benefit of getting truth and or justice for the toddler) and more about protecting the integrity of the investigation.

They haven't said a whole heck of a lot since early on and that might be because they don't want to reveal what they know or to inadvertently mislead the public by having to be a bit cagey in how they answer questions. (They also might not want to alert any possible suspects of their suspicions or theories, especially if those peeps are under surveillance.)

I am actually not trying to defend them, per se, but for some reason their actions seem to make so much sense to me and their motivations so genuine that I am having trouble overlooking it and becoming doubtful of them and critical of them. Anyway IMO.


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I'm sure you're right, I for sure agree with the bolded.

 

[desert-blue]

This in my reply to gliving's Post #903 above. For some reason I can't get the reply utton to work.

In the 9-11-15 article, the sheriff says:

"My Chief Deputy and several K9s were in the area Thursday."

Now . . . . Just what does that mean?

Since the article was published on Friday, September 11th, would that mean they were there the day before, on Thursday the 10th??? (if so, then LE was searching 2 months after Deorr went missing?)

Just to see how it fits in the timeline, the re-enactment was Monday, September 14th. The possible "new lead," aka jeep creep, was released on Tuesday, September 15th. I believe the Motel 6 toddler was found (and reunited) on September 13th, although the similarity to Deorr was not "discovered" until the 14th (and by the 15th, it was determined to not be Deorr, at least by LE). Interesting that they would be searching on the 10th, if that is what it implies. It's kind of a vague statement...

 

[neesaki]

DeOrr Kunz at about minute 3.

https://youtu.be/cDKfBxNu6s8

Just in case anyone is having trouble sleeping and needs something to occupy themselves tonight here's another interesting one. Don't blame me, Mickshawn you got me started :innocent:
Top 5 Explanations for National Park Disappearances

[video=youtube;hlET-0CWyW0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlET-0CWyW0[/video]

 

[ILOKAL]

Since the article was published on Friday, September 11th, would that mean they were there the day before, on Thursday the 10th??? (if so, then LE was searching 2 months after Deorr went missing?)

Just to see how it fits in the timeline, the re-enactment was Monday, September 14th. The possible "new lead," aka jeep creep, was released on Tuesday, September 15th. I believe the Motel 6 toddler was found (and reunited) on September 1I3th, although the similarity to Deorr was not "discovered" until the 14th (and by the 15th, it was determined to not be Deorr, at least by LE). Interesting that they would be searching on the 10th, if that is what it implies. It's kind of a vague statement...

I would take that statement to mean September 10th also. Yes, it is vague and might be outright misleading, IMO. The sheriff has merely said why yes, his Chief Deputy (one person) and several K9s (generally more than 3) were "in the area" Thursday. Well, do police K9s track people? I didn't think so. But if that's the case (in this instant) there was one "handler" for several tracking dogs? Personally I don't think so. I don't doubt the Chief Deputy was in an area with his K9s on September 10th for SOME reason, but I simply don't believe it had anything to do with searching for little Deorr. But because the sheriff made that cunning (IMO) statement, he must want the public to believe that LE is still up there searching. All IMO.

 

[ILOKAL]

Just in case anyone is having trouble sleeping and needs something to occupy themselves tonight here's another interesting one. Don't blame me, Mickshawn you got me started :innocent:
Top 5 Explanations for National Park Disappearances

[video=youtube;hlET-0CWyW0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlET-0CWyW0[/video]

Wow! Thanks neesaki for sharing that. It certainly should be an eye-opener to many. Our national forests are breathtakingly beautiful and no doubt hold many mysteries. Needless to say, I couldn't help but notice the locations shown of the mountain lion

Does anyone know how many have gone missing in national and state parks and and forests and other wilderness areas and never found in the last 100 years?

 

[pepelepolecat]

~~Second walk? What did I miss here?

micro-second ... meaning short, so short walk/micro-second walk.

 

[Purplepixii]

IMO, the FBI came too late to the dance..several weeks after the baby went missing.. The campsite was open and unmanned for almost 2 hours until LE got there. We know that someone was able to spread cremains during an active search, also. So, THEY got in close enough. Anyone could have slipped in and out of there. Naming the 4 campers as POI (because they were there when the baby disappeared) doesnt make sense. i am in Yankee stadium and someone gets murdered. Am I a poi? Every possible scenario cant be excluded.. if it is.. then baby Deorr was never there and that has been excluded. I have always felt he never made it back from the store in Leadore..or someone abducted him. LE is good with the parents and GGP.. Ir is truthful, the baby should have been found after the first day if he wandered.. he doesnt think it was a wild animal.. Given the proven ability of the dogs the baby should have been found.. body would have floated up if in the water.. divers, sonar, heat tracking planes.. all zero. He doesnt believe it was an abduction and has said he cant chase down everyone who stares at a baby (paraphrasing). All Righty, then. sheriff, .you have just removed yourself from ever solving this.. IMO, the mistakes were made those first 48 hours..as bolded. and he might be a heck of a nice guy but IMO the whole thing is hinky.

Everything I write is my opinion only.

This post, and numerous others both before and after, really make me shake my head. I mean no offence to anyone on this forum but essentially that's what we are - a forum of people from across the world with a strong interest in the subject of missing people. We all care in one way or another and WS has had some successes.

What we are not, is Law Enforcement. This sheriff doesn't have to tell us a thing pertinent to the investigation. He can lie to suspects / witnesses / the media / us all he likes.

He owes nothing to people not involved directly in the investigation.

His duty is to ensure that this investigation is handled to the best of LE's ability with any & all resources available to him.

If it comes out at a later date that he messed something up that jeopardised the case then I will sing a different tune. Until then he is the man in charge and he can lie / mislead me (& the rest of the world) as much as necessary if it helps strengthen a case against the perpetrator.

MOO

 

[ILOKAL]

This post, and numerous others both before and after, really make me shake my head. I mean no offence to anyone on this forum but essentially that's what we are - a forum of people from across the world with a strong interest in the subject of missing people. We all care in one way or another and WS has had some successes.

What we are not, is Law Enforcement. This sheriff doesn't have to tell us a thing pertinent to the investigation. He can lie to suspects / witnesses / the media / us all he likes.

He owes nothing to people not involved directly in the investigation.

His duty is to ensure that this investigation is handled to the best of LE's ability with any & all resources available to him.

If it comes out at a later date that he messed something up that jeopardised the case then I will sing a different tune. Until then he is the man in charge and he can lie / mislead me (& the rest of the world) as much as necessary if it helps strengthen a case against the perpetrator.

MOO

The sheriff is an elected official who serves the people in his jurisdiction. As such, he is subject to both praise and criticism. No one in our country stands so tall as to be exempt and that's why he is being discussed. We want those who are elected to protect us and enforce our laws to be honest. We also acknowledge that in an ongoing investigation of a missing child we are not privy to everything, especially anything that might jeopardize finding this little boy. OTOH, the sheriff doesn't have to mislead (if he has) by way of interviews. How many times have we heard an official say they are unable to answer a question because it might jeopardize the case. Sheriff Bowermann has that same option. It might serve him well to use that option instead of contradicting himself and making what appears (to some) as inaccurate, impossible, and misleading statements to the media. MOO

 

[Dee10]

Until the case is solved, I'm not sure how anyone could assume the Sheriff is giving inaccurate, impossible or misleading statements to the media. As an investigation moves on from the beginning and more information becomes available and investigated what was originally thought may change as the case evolves. I believe you have to watch what they do and read between the lines sometimes. I think the Sheriff has been as straight forward as he can be. I believe it is natural for LE to be suspicious as well as they have to keep an open mind to follow where the evidence points, therefore nothing is 100% until it is black & white so to speak. I have no reason to believe the Sheriff has not done a good job in this case. Time will tell.

 

[desert-blue]

Until the case is solved, I'm not sure how anyone could assume the Sheriff is giving inaccurate, impossible or misleading statements to the media. As an investigation moves on from the beginning and more information becomes available and investigated what was originally thought may change as the case evolves. I believe you have to watch what they do and read between the lines sometimes. I think the Sheriff has been as straight forward as he can be. I believe it is natural for LE to be suspicious as well as they have to keep an open mind to follow where the evidence points, therefore nothing is 100% until it is black & white so to speak. I have no reason to believe the Sheriff has not done a good job in this case. Time will tell.

BBM: Time will tell. I think a lot of the criticism/frustration is due to the facts that A. the baby has not been found, and B. no one seems to be a suspect, and C. all other scenarios have pretty much been dismissed, and D. it has been over two months and NOTHING. Time is perhaps the most frustrating element of all when a child is missing.

 

[desert-blue]

The sheriff is an elected official who serves the people in his jurisdiction. As such, he is subject to both praise and criticism. No one in our country stands so tall as to be exempt and that's why he is being discussed. We want those who are elected to protect and enforce to be honest. We also acknowledge that in an ongoing investigation of a missing child we are not privy to everything, especially anything that might jeopardize finding this little boy. OTOH, the sheriff doesn't have to mislead (if he has) by way of interviews. How many times have we heard an official say they are unable to answer a question because it might jeopardize the case. Sheriff Bowermann has that same option. It might serve him well to use that option instead of contradicting himself and making what appears (to some) as inaccurate, impossible, and misleading statements to the media. MOO

I agree. "No comment," would suffice. It may frustrate the public, but so does "I don't know" or changing answers over time. MOO.